Anyone else feel the game lacks in the end?

[[BRE] Vauquelin]

I think the game got kind of linear in the end. I get it you're preparing for the storm, and waiting it out. But I was expecting more dramatic laws from which you could choose from and prepare more in terms of the social aspect of the game, (I went discipline and order route) not just food and coal.

And also how the hope aspect became obedience, which kinda rendered the entire law & order tree useless, along with the buildings.

[Mace]

The game is about moral dilemma. If you go so far down the tree that hope is no longer an issue forever you've lost sight of what your job really is as the overseer.

[amordron]

If you needed to go all the way down the order tree to make hope fine the issue was not the tree but your build.

A good build should have hope being a non factor with only one law into the faith/order tree. If you need more it means your moral picks earlier or later in the game was iffy at best. Doing more is fine if there is a reason for it but you should never feel the need for them unless your doing questionable thing or letting people die quite a bit. If people are dieing there is def room in your build for improvments that more later laws in the purpose tree wont help with.

The goal of the game is being able to survive without losing your moral high ground not to go so far down the tree that you end up killing your people in order to have absolute obedience.

There is quite a bit to the game when you try to play without people dieing which should be your goal in the game as you are playing as a leader of a people trying to survive not a leader of a expendable population. While trying to not cross the line and lose your morals.

If anything I would like to see more laws to sign NOT in the purpose trees to make alternate things to spend them on that dont require crossing the line. Each giving a trade of lose something to gain something. Like soup or food additives dose. Soup being a more moderate choice that just makes people unhappy or sawdust being more extreme giving a larger boost but at a greater cost. Like mabye a law to add auto parts to a worker effectively "killing" that worker to make a auto that runs at a higher effectiveness (an android that no longer needs to eat and dosent get sick) with an alternate path that lets you have workers control the autos so they dont die but than dont get as much of a boost to there effectiveness. Or a law to add heaters into homes same as workplaces as never made sense to me to not have them in homes but makes sense to need a law for it before adding to insure the government has control of them vs personal as they are paying the heating bill. Mabye two laws one allowing heaters but all homes need to be on or non and a 2nd law letting you turn heaters on home by home. Gives more options to the player for laws without giving anything for free as eg in the heater case you still are paying the increased coal cost (and it would be high as coal cost should be same as a workplace one make it so heaters are on only for non working hours when people are in there homes)

[Lorska]

Huh... May I call BS on this "if you have issues with hope then it's your build that is the problem"?
I was at maximum hope before the storm hit and just the storm coming/being there reduced it to 0%.
I thought of not doing the execution ground but it pretty much forced me to do it unless hope doesn't matter during the storm which would make the whole hope decreasing mechanic of it utterly pointless.

But hey, at least you can sacrifice a child to keep your people warm.

[[CT] Forced Jaketh]

I got through the storm in the main game without enacting the final order lores. That being said a couple of hundred died due to the cold haha. My first play through :P I like to think that by not enacting the final law and not going too far into the order or faith tree you can role play a more "moderate" society. Otherwise I pretty much created ice nazis hahaha

[amordron]

Originally posted by Lorska:

Huh... May I call BS on this "if you have issues with hope then it's your build that is the problem"?
I was at maximum hope before the storm hit and just the storm coming/being there reduced it to 0%.
I thought of not doing the execution ground but it pretty much forced me to do it unless hope doesn't matter during the storm which would make the whole hope decreasing mechanic of it utterly pointless.

But hey, at least you can sacrifice a child to keep your people warm.

The storm reduces hope to 15% not 0% so calling BS right there.

The storm dose NOT give a further hope mod from there so as mentioned a good build will have positive hope already so the game setting you to 15% is meaningless as your just going to start going up from there. Unless the storm kills people than that 15% vary quickly becomes to little. But as mentioned a good build wont lose people its quite possible even on extreme to go by the storm without a single death. Thou on extreme 1-2 can happen due to bad rng so its good to have a bit of extra hope gen so only 1 law in purpose is risky but you can get up to 5 in order or faith (if picking the right ones) without crossing the line.

Hope only matters at all if you get so low you get the warning you have two days to improve it. Than it only matters if you fail to improve it as mentioned above a good build would have a positive hope amount you would improve it.

It reducing your hope is not pointless as if your at max hope you are allowed less deaths till it becomes a issue by reducing your hope you are required to handle the storm better as fewer deaths (or moral violations) will make hope a issue.


You cant really call BS on something that is done countless times by people constantly to the point the game has several achievements to do exactly that. The "real" ending of the game that includes not crossing the line even requires it.

[Lorska]

So why on Earth did my hope reach 0% after being at max with no other modifiers and with me spamming propaganda as well o.O
Maybe something didn't show?
I also didn't get the low hope warning it just showed that I had no hope on the bar... Maybe a graphical glitch?

[amordron]

Originally posted by Lorska:

So why on Earth did my hope reach 0% after being at max with no other modifiers and with me spamming propaganda as well o.O
Maybe something didn't show?
I also didn't get the low hope warning it just showed that I had no hope on the bar... Maybe a graphical glitch?

If you reached 0% its since your hope income was not positive kinda mentioned that right in my last post. Just since you had positive income before dose NOT mean you did not gain a negative mod not from the storm after. As if eg the storm now made your med facility to cold to work you now have a negative hope mod from that.

Its quite likly you got a diff neg hope mod due to the storms temp if you dint handle it correctly with as said a good build.

The storm ONLY sets hope to 15% the cold thou dose cause other hope mods these hope mods are true for the entire game if your build dose not counter thou.

Same thing for the events during the storm if you eg don't let people pray hope further falls if you let them pray hope raises.

Your choices after the setting of 15% still mod your hope that is not the storm that is as said YOU making more questionable moral choices. NOT as mentioned maintaining your moral ground while providing what your people need.

I have done the storm quite a few times and ended with >70% hope without crossing the moral line. Thou on extreme norm only get to about 40% but even that is tons extra.


You only get the warning for low hope if hope falls below a set point for a sec amount of time (about 24 hours). Till that time happens wont trigger. Not that it matters as the lower you go pre it showing up the more you need to raise as still need to get to 15% to get out of that warning and not lose.

[Lorska]

Hmm I see. Though it's definitely weird because I only had positive hope generation...
Well that game is in the past now so whatever I guess.

[amordron]

Originally posted by Lorska:

Hmm I see. Though it's definitely weird because I only had positive hope generation...
Well that game is in the past now so whatever I guess.

Given you mentioned sacrificing a child (only done to keep the gen on overdrive longer without saving a steam core ( why people save a steam core for the storm to prevent that). Find it unlikly you had no neg hope mod as that right there is one.

Unless you went deathless you had neg mods from death.

Even homes below livable that will happen at some point over the storm is a neg hope mod so I know for a fact at some point you had them so can call bs on that right now.

There are quite a number of ways to get neg hope durring the storm events.

You counter the neg hope gens you can’t avoid via the many possible positive hope gens you can also get durring the storm such as letting people pray or giving out the 1350 wood.

[Lorska]

The sacrifice actually happened afterwards. I just accidentally left the reactor on overdrive on the last few seconds of the storm actually thought I lost literally seconds before winning there lol. And yeah nobody died either until execution platform was built. Got the achievement for no deaths through cold etc. on that run... I remember letting them just do whatever they wanted during the storm like praying too... *Shrug*
I'll just pretend it was some graphical thing and believe you on your reduction to 15% normally.

[Darkstrong]

You can do a deathless run on New Home on Survival without enacting any law except the first one in either faith or order. It is not even all that hard. I am not even talking about easier difficulties. So, no, the game doesn't force you to make any immoral decisions, you make them yourself :)

[[BRE] Vauquelin]

You guys are talking about builds and all that, while I thought you were required to sign laws when you had the chance. Very few died during the game, and only about 100 out of 600 died in the final storm. My hope was high the entire game, but I guess I didn't realise the trees are about min-maxing your colony, and thought it was about a tale of how your colony turns to obedience or religion.

[[CT] Forced Jaketh]

I did the arks scenarios recently, first try didnt save the other place second try I did it easy and finished 5 days before the storm hit. Sounds kinda cheating but once you play once you kinda know what to expect. I noticed a few mistakes I made early in the first game that stopped me inflating my economy to the level I needed.

[Ziraiah]

Originally posted by It is I:

You guys are talking about builds and all that, while I thought you were required to sign laws when you had the chance. Very few died during the game, and only about 100 out of 600 died in the final storm. My hope was high the entire game, but I guess I didn't realise the trees are about min-maxing your colony, and thought it was about a tale of how your colony turns to obedience or religion.

I actually thought I have to sign new laws too when ever it's possible. After my first game I realised it wasn't mandatory. Oops. I love survival and strategy games, and I think signing laws in this game is a brilliant idea. It gets this whole game to the next level. I'm new to this game, but I'm loving it already.