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The Rift map was pretty cool on hard and kept me busy until ~day 70. That's considerably better than regular endurance.
It did get noticeably easyer after the generator was up, but that's why we build it, isn't it?
Several Extreme (no death) run including The Rift.
Obviously the Rift was the hardest yet in my case the generator got built on 47th (a day before the 4th storm). And I lost about 80% of progress in Stage II due to the storm yet was able to do so.
In Endurance Extreme I usually could build the 3rd bridge (the bridge toward the 2nd Steelworks) about 1~2 days before the second storm hit. I was able to build it right after the first storm in Builder Extreme. The resource management is too forgiving overall.
Of course. I'm rather pointing out that it becomes easy WAY before generator -- just when the first storm is over. The survival in the first storm itself is so tech-bound and it doesn't really make any consistent difficulty from then.
I usually start building generator right after the 2nd storm is away. It still finishes on day 45~47 before 4th storm so it doesn't matter.
Bunkhouse cannot prevent a dozen of amputees and half of city being gravely ill in -70 C. The first storm is indeed insane and the only way to ensure deathless run, or to be exact to keep people barely alive, is to get Infirmary and Carehouses that are fully upgraded up to Tier 3 as they are the only buildings that endure the storm in Chilly. This is certainly possible even in Extreme but unprecedentedly hard challenge because you don't usually have such cold crisis in Endurance Extreme when you get used to. This is unavoidable in Builder Extreme.
Then whoosh. After that moment things suddenly get as trivial as in serenity. It just feels wrong and unpolished.
My last run I did on extreme first storm only got 1 amp and no sick that could not be handled without any infirmarys or carehouses.
Yes had lvl 1 insulation and lvl 2 heaters but that is all you need to maintain chilly in houses of healing. You don’t need infirmary it’s not your only option house of healing is also or if you want amps radical is also an option as vary easy to have factory up pre storm if you pref that and not bother with infirmary that is only one option. And you won’t get 10 amps like you claim from -70 with a good build on extreme this was on the rifts map.
Bunkhouses most def can prevent dozen on amputees in minus 70 as that was what I had with only a single one with a pop of over 200. Dint have houses till 2nd storm. Yes there is a chance for a amputation but this chance is only present when they are at home by running extended shifts and keeping people within warmer workplaces this chance is kept quite low. ESP as the chance of amputation is quite low in the first place with me getting only a single one.
Extreme it’s possible to do the entirely to day 100 so the worst possible storms while maintaining a positive growth without the gen even thou you will have deaths starting at the fourth storm pre the fourth storm it’s completely possible to not have deaths. Thou if going the house of healing route you will have one. If not you will need a infimery not a carehouse. Nor do you need them at tier 3. One layer of insulation is enough.
Infirmary has 2 insulation baseline plus one from insulation one and plus two from heaters as same tier as them. This gets you chilly there is no reason for tier 2 healthcare insulation even furthermore tier 3 heaters. Most def do not need them fully upgraded. Should at least do basic math if wanting to claim what you need first it dosent help your point to incorrectly exaggerate.
Reaching the tech level mentioned is not hard at all with my best run being well ahead of that even being able to have tier 3 heaters houses and lvl 2 Ned post insulation for the first storm (this was not on rifts yes rifts is harder but the mode is not balanced around one map that is made to be harder). The start you get is that strong. Yes the builders mode is not well balanced but the reason is not the first storm being to hard it’s the fact that even doing nothing to repair the gen at first only helps you not hurts you. The mode should put more pressure on getting that gen done as right now the mode is best played by not making the gen at all till your done with the critical tech and in a fully stable case. There is nothing that screams we need to start the gen early and work on it. Rewards such as giving a modicafion boost (increased work speed) or something to make repairing the gen early worth it would make the mode just better. As it is now the mode is just to easy by just not making the gen till later on (after 2nd storm really prep the parts mid way after first storm to start after 2nd) or not at all if you pref that.
If they made the first storm any easyer that is already is due to your massive start without making you have to spend time making that gen the mode would be to easy. As it stands it already basically is serenity mode with little challenge. Overall the entire mode should be rethought to more stress repairing the gen vs leaving it as a vary real and honestly better idea to not bother till you have all the tech which you get super fast in this mode using house of healing due to having a ton of eng free.
You don't go for HoH on deathless run due to its unavoidable scripted death. Seriously if you count death as an option then just killing people during the storm is also a viable way so the difficulty drops down hard overall just like when one crosses the line in scenarios. And even having HoH still does not round the difficulty spike enough.
And no, Lv1 insulation + Lv2 heaters is not enough for MP to work on -70 C. So Radical Treatment is only useful after storm passes. I actually tried this strat (just carehouses then bunch of MP aftermath) before I began to consider rushing Infirmary but the result was mostly catastrophic.
Yeah I also put them in workplaces in ES for exactly same reason. But I consistently got about 11 ~ 18 amputees across every run and most of them are directly converted from bunkhouses and workplaces so I wonder how you succeeded in decreasing number of them?
Or you should at least read the word carefully before your math things come out. No one said Lv2 healthcare insulation nor Lv3 heating required for anything.
I'm pretty sure that you've written this long nonsense due to the wording "up to Tier 3". I must remind you that in Frostpunk the word "tier" is used for horizontal research group up to 5 level, not the individual research level. So that is Mechanical Calculators (T3) with Lv2 heater and Lv1 insulation (+ Infirmary Mechanisation as it's needed on running 4 Infirmaries simultaneously), not Automatic Prototyping (T5) with Lv3 heater and Lv2 insulation as you've misunderstood (that's actually impossible in deathless Extreme within 1st storm).
Either way. If devs target casuals then the first storm should be easier than now since they'll still even struggle on passing the first storm (but they'll not afterward). For hardcore players conversely it would actually need even harsher weather from 2nd storm (e.g. -80 then -80x2 then -90x2) to distract people from building the generator. I personally prefer the latter but that's devs decision to make on which difficulty it should sit. Or there might be another alternatives to keep difficulty consistent enough.
I'm rather saying that in current form it works for no one.
No level 1 + insulation and 2 heaters is not enoguh for medical posts BUT that is not the same as medical posts not being an option. That was specificly said when using inf or HoH. As a diff building is used obv a diff build is used trying to change one element without changing the build is nothing more than foolish. All you need to use a medpost is either 1 more level of heater or insulation both which are quite possible to get. As mentioned my best I have got not only lev 3 heaters but houses pre the storm with level 2 med insulation this is more than enough for med posts to work. So yes radical most def is an option.
Point remains your claim that fully upgraded infirmys are required is NOT true and hurts your point by over exaggerating the requirements to pass the storm. The point is stronger when you correctly represent the requirements. It is quite easy even on extreme to survive the first storm. As such editing that storm without fixing the MAIN flaw of the mode that there is really no reason to make the gen that early is removing any challenge that there is. Making the entire mode into a snooze fest.
Cant say why you did but as you never mentioned your build outside of some elements that you spoke as required that are not. While not mentioning anything else that you had. Using es is only one thing you can do to reduce not the only way.
I have made full write ups on exactly what I do in other threads you are welcome to look them up in my history. If your workplaces heat level is low thou you will still get alot. If you are suing infirmary's and NOT HoH you will get more. HoH allows you to have people staffed 24 hours. Yes they still go home at some point but the calculation for them getting sick favors the HoH temp more than there home temp. ES in workplaces work the same but not as much of having them staffed there. There is a way to use HoH without a death as a note so long as you never leave people in for a 24 hour period constantly. Shortly removing people than putting them back in resets the old mans death, This allows you to stop it indefinitely if you want to. I see no issue with this as to me its a scripted death that really has no point to be there. So yes HoH is an option in deathless games.
Saving your one 25 hour shift for there also can help among other ways.
That being said thou as mentioned above it is quite possible to be at house tech at that point rending it mute as house tech makes it not matter if there in houses or not. But fact remains it is quite possible to prevent amputations with bunkhouses.
Yes they do and my point stands on that even. As mentioned you dont need to go down the med tree line AT ALL if you dont want to. There is no need what so ever to get infirmys or even med post eff increase if you choose not to. You can use a HoH with a level 3 heaters if you pref. You claim that is the ONLY way to do it. It is not. You even have the option to not even get tier 3. You can accept the amps and make the fundary in advance. This way even without ANY med posts warm enough for the storm you will not have a single death. Yes you will have amps with that build but this is yet another way to do it deathless without even needing tier 3 at all.
Fact is your requirement of needing t3 unlocked even for the storm is nothing but false. While it is quite easy to even be at tier 4 with all the "core" upgrades pre the storm. As such there is no issue what so ever which some builds needing select upgrades for healthcare in t3.
You claim " not Automatic Prototyping (T5) with Lv3 heater and Lv2 insulation" is impossible within the first storm in extreme its not. I have done exactly that in one build when I was over estimating the storms power. Yes you have to give up elsewhere. That is no where near the same as being impossible like you claim.
Which adds to my point if your going to claim something is impossible it better be so. Otherwise it dose not help your point. Saying its to hard to do that to be worth is another story saying it is impossible is just wrong.
You can even if you want get field kitchens to get +1 heat level to get all other workplaces to the livable level with +2 heating from there base + insulation perk (gathing post mainly) and place gathering posts for them to work in on extended keeping your people warm the same that HoH norm dose. This will cause a comparable amount of amps as using infirmy or HoH. The sick will have to be dealt with after the storm but even on extreme the storm is to short to kill them if you go into with healthy people and that is quite possible to do. You DO NOT need med places at chilly at all to get by the storm. While maintaining deathless. While the temp goes up massively after giving time to deal with the sick.
So no there is quite a few ways to get deathless without your method.
I have heard of quite a number of casuals doing it on extreme with ease once you give them only two things of advice 1) dont make the gen till after 2nd storm and 2) get 24 hour shifts on two wood piles to get tents up day 1.
As such no its not to hard for casuals vs ANY other map or scenario at this difficulty other than serenity mode getting to the first storm is already easier. The game being hard for casuals means little. As extreme is meant to be. Its all a comp to the oter maps and modes diff in comp at that level of play. Which already builders at all points is just easier. Assuming you don't bother making the gen that early. This is the flaw of the mode the first storm is not it.
The problem with the mode IS NOT the first storm. It is the lack of reason to make the gen. This results in the storm being easy as you don't make the gen that early you leave it till after the 2nd getting parts after the first if you want. Making all points of the diff easy.
Until they give a reason to make the gen they cant go and make the first storm easier without moving any challenge the mode has. Once they do yes a balance pass on the storms will be needed but till than the core prob remains the lack of reason to make the gen.
Build 1st part, you get gen level 1 and heater, etc, rather than unlocking all gen upgrade at once when it's finished.
Well that would work would make no sense to get gen level one and as such plus one heat from a pit.
Now if we got blazer tech as a reward for making the gen stage one and some other tech from last autumn that might work.
To me the map should of started in the summer and used more from last autumn but that ship has sailed.
Otherwise could make a persistent work eff buff to make up the time spent working on the gen. Than make harsher not easier like the op suggested storms the first is fine as is but the later ones worse. So that without the eff buff from the gen you won’t keep up plus if not using that eff buff from it means also behind on the gen so not able to keep up with the weather once you reach the point the gen is made to be needed.
Once the gen is needed storms need to last longer as right now there to short people don’t die from a storm on extreme till super late storm 4 and on. Even than you find so many on the frostland you keep positive growth.
And THE imbalanced thing is when you only get a couple of amputees during the storm with freezing tents and 0 (zero) gravely ill. This way u can easily survive till 3 storm this way (with tents). If you get Bunkhouse, you'll get mass gravely ill. That's... the mechanics.
So, I have all of my ppl live in insulated Houses before the 2nd storm. And only then I begin my work with Generator.