Some tips for The Builders?

[Feathers]

I just started a game of The Builders, in the Canyon. (I know, not ideal for a beginner in endless mode, but screw it i'm doing it)

This whole task is rather daunting, building a new generator while the winter is already upon us...
Though i'm sure I can deal with the cold with housing upgrades, how am I going to handle workplace safety? The Labor laws tree doesn't seem to be here, so I can't pass those laws that increase safety.

I'd appreciate some simple tips.

[drivver44]

so if you did the last autumn as workers union its the same way
dont rely on housing upgrades.
worry about health care first
make sure each storm you get one stage of the generator done such as the pumps and pressure valves.
infirmeries can heal people in up to -90 C with heaters and insulation

[amordron]

The best tip is just dont build the gen.

Honestly its counterintuative but it makes it easier.

Making the gen just gives you to much to do of the start. If you wait to build it till after the 2nd storm you can have all your resoruces and tech up to the highest level to make it quite easy to put labor into the gen at that point and will be stable. Its even possible to never build the gen while still having positive population growth on extreme. So delaying the gen wont kill you and gives you a much eaiser time.


Otherwise don't go infirmaries like the above suggests. They cost cores thou you got a fair bit in this mode there is no reason to waste them esp when the fastest way to get healthcare stable is faith.

Go faith and get house of healing. Not only is to almost the same speed as infirmary at healing you are able to staff it with any type of worker allowing for more tech focused eng while allowing you to more effectively cover your entire pops healthcare needs due to being able to drop extra houses of healing and staff them when storms hit due to labor being freed by the storm in food might as well drop them into healthcare.

Child labor is still good in this mode as tech apprentices are not needed due to after getting the tech you need and you will early if you dont make the gen there meh. Ehile having kids work in houses of healing is a larger boost to overall med than child shelters. That being said you start with so much labor dont open with this law I found I never signed it till after house of healing as you just start with that much labor.

For laws I found taking 24 hour -> extended -> soup (use sawdust if on hard or below the sick is really nothing on those diffs) -> sustain life -> overcrowding -> house of prayer -> shrine -> house of healing -> child labor -> snowpit -> 20% med boost

worked really well for extreme. This allows using 24 hour shifts on the piles that stick out of a gather post are (not the ruins piles) to clear them when temp is warm. Gathering posts on the nice piles and ruins. Than extended shifts to get the tech lead. Once that is there its all about getting med stable. You don't need to invest ANY tech early into med as your laws do it for you. Allowing you to focus on getting heaters going + bunkhouses for the first storm and houses easy for the 2nd storm. Once resources are stable with houses you can look into med upgrades and med insulation they are not needed till the 4th storm as lvl 3 heaters can handle the 3rd.

Use hothouses for food as well as wall drills you start with a ton of cores and as not making the gen might as well use them. Thumpers for coal this makes child labor well worth later as you have tons of safe jobs.




As for safety with the gen donig the above you are so far ahead on tech once you start making the gen you can just drop three vents leave them on constantly and not worry about safety at all.

Hell you can rush every stage of the gen without worry doing the above as it is based around not needing the gen in the first place so a malfunction gen is fine just drop one of your two steam hubs to heat as many houses of healing as possible and one for as many houses as possible with level 2 range and you will have no deaths on extreme with a malfunction gen. If going for a perfect gen when gases are high just stop for a bit as you will be able to keep 50 workers in there easy waiting so long you will easy get done 1 stage prob two before each storm.


This obv assumes you no the basics of scout early and often and dont use only one workshop.

[Harris]

Thanks for the advice, as always. And just when I needed it. I somehow forgot about houses of healing, haven't played original scenarios for a while. I wanted to go order as I normally do, but since I play extreme for achievement now healthcare is really a priority.

[Feathers]

Extremely helpful @amordron Thank you.

[Harris]

So far it wrecks me. Unlike Last Autumn where discontent is a joke because only repercussion is strikes which you can deal with by promising something you are never going to do, here it is game over.

I quickly get loads of discontent from hunger, sickness and homelessness. And that's without 24 shifts and extended, mind. Once I try them people all act up.

Healthcare is a major killer too. No point in having over 100 people, when >50% of that are sick. And having to build lots of medical posts doesn't help. It leads to some of your people sick, some others healing them, and nobody left to accomplish anything. Even if I rush houses of healing I can't really stabilize it.

Maybe I'll have to set housing for everyone as a priority.

How do you open, amordron? I start with plopping 3-4 gathering posts to deal with wrecks. Seems it's really essential to get the research going ASAP, all good resource buildings etc are barred at tier 1-2 something.

What are the proportions? How many people should gather stuff, how many go hunt and how many be stuck in the medical posts for not to lose in the first 3-4 days?

[amordron]

If discontent is becoming a issue use sawdust over soup it’s viable to do so and will cut down on the discontent. It will cause more sick 6.5 percent of your pop dailly to be exact which is a larger loss of labor than soup to produce the extra food but if discontent is a issue it is worth doing So.

Extended I was only using on workshops early in this mode the tech boost is worth you have labor enough to not need it in other industry’s till first wall drill is up. Using on the wall drill is worth as you will need the wood and makes the core more worthwhile.

I start with using two 24 hours shifts on two wood piles this will get you roughly 150 wood from them over the first day night plus next day which will solve the homelessness issue.

You can try using extra rations for the ill over overcrowding I was using overcrowding myself but extra ratios will be less discontent while the same effectiveness.

I’ll play a round in a bit and right up my open till first storm as of hand can’t remember exactly what I did. Prob with endless your weather is random within a range so if you have bad luck your going to have a worse time.

[amordron]

So starting a game playing on creator like that map find it the easiest as resource piles are in a nice location of start norm.

Instantly made the roads to the pre made building and droped two workshops plus loaded 5 eng into the med bay already made.

I placed two gathering posts to cover the majority of the ruins this included hitting one coal pile to start getting some ready for later + one wood pile so make the posts more effective while clearing ruins. The two wood piles NOT in good gathering spot range (not in a cluser of 3) I set 24 hour shifts on with 15 workers each to speed clear

I had 20 eng building 10 to drop into workshops rest of the pop was spilt into ruins not covered by the gathing posts. As the gathering posts get build via the other 10 eng will swap people into those.

As soon as the workshops where build got the beacon going.

All the rest of the wood went into placing 9 tents around the buildings already made so everything is in chaples range leave the gap for fighting arnea later game. This will get build AFTER the work day ends auto as when placed everyone is assigned a job so they wont build them yet. Don't place these till the eng finish the gather posts and you assign them a job. I also place a 2nd med post at this time.

ended day 1 with 67 wood going into free time. I place the cookhouse at this time but do NOT staff it. We will staff 1 min after the END of the work day with a single worker so we can sign a food law as the 3rd law without wasteing food. If timed right you will lose no raw food.

extended shifts as the 2nd law. The wood I have im saving up for the moment. Discontent was low so used extended on both gathering posts and workshops. Staffed the med post as soon as it came up. I made a 3rd med post as was getting more sick than hoped at 16. Stafed it once it was up to make all eng in relevant worksites.

Once beacon is up make it via taking 5 workers of a ruin and send them out. Normal endless scouting plan aiming for more survivors. I place the beacon by the wall drill spots to save wood on roads.

As I had bad luck I have 2 temp drops comming back to back in the next two days so went heaters now vs was wanting drawing boards.

At noon the wood piles you set 24 hour will depleat as temp will drop soon I'm using two more 24 hour shifts to clear the other piles out of the way of posts. Steel in my case. Heaters finshed over this day and started drawing boards.

I used sawdust this run as you mentioned discontent was a issue in your run and after 4 24 hours my discontent was a bit high anyways. Two more gathering posts where made that night to be ready for when the 24 hour shifts clear. While giving warm workplaces for the coming drop. All non coal piles will be covered at this ponit I had one coal pile not which we dont care about. That will become a thumper location later and get cleared at that point. I made one more med psot at this point to be ready for the dip while being able to shuffle eng to the post overnight to help out from the workshop. 2nd night ends with 17 sick.

Staffed the new gathering posts at this point I dint bother running these on exteneded as dicontent was at about 60%. signed sustain life. 5 people in cookhouse to deal with the hunger. Once drawing boards done get hothouse.

I turn heaters on this night as -30 starts now. Had 30 sick and signed overcrowding. Scout found 59 food so sent back as makes it less of a rush for hothouses thou will be up in a sec.

Once hothouse was done made one with exteneded shifts and heaters. Starting work on wall drill. I made 2 hot houses as will have free labor soon and got spare cores for the moment. Discontent was at 70% at this point after overcrowding was taken into account. had 35 sick after this night.

-40 starts now so no longer can work without a post.

Wall drill done As a temp increase will happen 24 hours from now and -30 for 3 days after delaying bunkhouse otherwise would get now. Good on all resources so getting 2nd scout team up. Placed both wall drills as got the cores. Wood was near caped so did not run on extended will later. Droped a resource depot for food and coal to be ready for storm ans near full.

House of prayor law. Out of the cold now still keeping heaters on I got good steel but little left on the map and no cold comming for a bit so getting 2nd scout running and setting up steel work. Found survivors 10 end 35 workers good as really dint need more labor lol. But will need soon for steel works but really I have to much. Place two more workshops to be ready for the eng. As its warm finish all ruins left there was only 1 left for me at this point + the coal pile ill leave for later for thumpers.

Day 7

Steel works done but still 3 days of -40 again. Good on coal so might as well get bunkhouses up and ready. Got shrines. Med was getting iffy so added one more med post as sitting at 35 due to working in the last ruins this will tie over till house of healing. Bunkhouses done so start convering and getting next tech level. More survivors oh joy I dont got enoguh jobs for them even. Ill place a few hunters just to make more food ad give them work.

Day 8
House of healing at last. Place 3 and get rid of med posts focus eng into tech to ramp it up. Can get steam steelworks now as steel getting tight. discontent 40% hope 70% at this point running extened shift where it makes sense. about 200 rations stockpiled. Thou Ill need to make more with the newest people comming. Placed one more hothouse as had the core.

At last get coal thumper and snowpit as death from house of healing. Will get child labor than snowpits 20% next as will start to have labor needs and that will cover till first storm for laws. Well mgiht get fighting arnea also before storm. Steam thumper right after coal thumper


From there its heater level 2 -> upgraded medpost -> health care insulation and that the storm.

Enter the storm with 218 pop 600 rations stockpiled 300 raw food. All bunkhouses. 3 spare houses of healing to move all hothouse staff into houses of healing so I can support the entire pop getting sick if I want. For a easy storm. As a note gathering post insulation I dint grab this run so the gathering posts wont be able to stay active durring the storm oh well I had 1500 coal stockpiled.

From there its spending one mroe storm cycle to hit the bottom of the tech tree houses and everything stable than make the gen without issue.

I directly jumped two tech levels for a new heater level next btw for the sake of it dosent really matter what you do from here.

The storm caused 1 amp for me as forgot the hunters in the one hunter post I made as had spare labor. Only 70 sick no deaths so not a bad storm at all. First is the worst storm.



By day 18 I had adv steelworks max heaters + eff, houses + house insulation, 3 scouts, working on gathering post insualtion to keep that running durring storms will be done by day 20. Basicly everything you need and able to work on the gen now with ease while storm wont hit for awhile so can get all the parts ready for stage 1 and 2. You can complete two stages per storm cycle so doing so you can easy have the gen made by 4th storm. If you accept deaths and only want a positive growth thou dont even need the gen.

Use field kitchens to further boost workplace temp even durring storms.

Day 25 is 2nd storm btw. I had 2000 steel 6000 wood 15000 coal 1500 rations and 300 raw food stockpiled going into the storm with well everything in the tech tree and law tree I would want for it dint even bother with any work on the gen. So from here only thing left to do is work on the gen yet still a full 25 days till the day 50 goal they give you even. Even had 100 people without jobs as really nothing for them to do. Pop of 400 so far. 2nd storm barely makes things chilly.


With that im of not going to play past this storm today as already done it.

[Harris]

Thanks, works like a charm. Once more I felt like Frostpunk is about initial challenge. Once you open skillfully everything else becomes trivial. The big deal was to 24 hour two wood piles and build tents for everyone quickly. Then they don't get sick, can work, get less discontent and the like. So essentially I did a similar playthrough to yours.

One thing to note however, this mode doesn't yeild Ultramaraphone Extreme like I hoped, or any similar ones for that matter. Probably because it's Builders, not Endurance. However, if you lose on Builders it somehow gives you achievement for losing on Serenity. Weird.

Basically I built up economy until day 40ish, started to build the generator, and barely made it to 50th with some parts rushed and faulty. Else I'd get too much discontent from freezing and cold so game over. Faith is not as good at discontent management as order in my experience. When I got the generator though it was a walk in the park from there. Amassed thousands of resources, swapped houses of healing for infirmaries, placed automatons everywhere and let the game play itself until day 100.

So I literally had no reason to play this on Extreme, just for the challenge and curiosity. But I recall you saying Endurance on Extreme is even more difficult?

[amordron]

The builders has its own 100 day challenge but can be done on any diff so why I suggested getting that first as easier.

Endurance on extreme is more difficult but not by much. The same general build is used.

Faith manages discontent via temple fighting arena and Public house.

Further for coal use 5.5 gathering posts on a steam thumper if you got the labor with only the thumper on extended or like me two with 4 both on normal. That alone takes the edge of on discontent when I did my no gen 100 extreme personal challenge.

[Leonix]

Am I the only one, or in Builders mode aren't any storm shelters? O.o