How do I optimize Docks?

[nedsociety]

I tried a lot of experiments on Docks and Reloading Stations but I think I'm lost here.


1. 3 basic Reloading Stations (lv1) + Advanced Dock

Dock capped to 2/3 of its max workers. We're wasting the capability of dock.


2. 3 Steam Reloading Stations (lv2) + Advanced Dock

RS capped to 3/4 of their max workers. Worse than previous one since it's wasting capability of Steam Cores.


3. 2 Steam Reloading Stations + 1 basic Reloading Station + Advanced Dock

Tried to match the total sum of producer and consumers, didn't work as intended. Dock seemed to distribute resources equally in each RS slot. So it underproduced resource piles for Steam RS and overproduced one for basic RS.



So far there seems no way to optimize them to their fullest capability. And I'm not even sure why the hell they put Advanced RS (lv3) in the game if they already cannot produce piles for Steam RS.

Is it me or just a design-wise failure?

[amordron]

at basic use gathering posts send workers with LP alt use 6 workers on the dock with the reloader this saves labor but at the cost of a core earlier and losing some dock production.

once you get two shift OR steam reloaders swap to reloading bays. With two shift on a reloader and 10 workers on a dock your fine. With a steam reloader you counter the dock (if one has its upgrade both need it).

You can use two shifts on both dock and reloader if you want at the steam level.

A steam reloader is 10.2 steel/hour a dock is always 9.9/hour (rounded) so its a direct counter that is with there upgrade for 10% on both without its 9 vs 9.3 on the reloader

Advance reloader you can skip but if you do get it use two shift on the dock and reloader working normal. This reduces discontent. I pref sticking with steam and turning on and of two shift when low on resources as reduces discontent more and dont norm need that much resources that adv provides.

this is 23.1 resource per hour (when avg over the 10 hour work day) for the dock vs 15.18 for the reloader. So you will have to swap of two shift on the dock every few days for the reloader to catch up. When not on two shift the dock is 9.9 per hour. Nice thing about doing so it frees up labor and discontent every few days thou takes some microing so I tend to skip as steam is enough.




The dock always unloads evenly yes. This is why gathering posts can be good as they gather from all piles but they have negatives.



As a note per LP using gathering posts is better than reloaders other than basic tier, (need 9 for adv dock and hard to even fit that in range) BUT it required either a redic amount of labor (so convicts to make up the loss but that a late game answer) Which also further mean more people to feed which need more labor to counter making it closer to same LP. Gathering posts thou constantly on two shift 4 gathering posts can counter a advanced dock for a really low LP cost. Prob is this causes a redic amount of discontent and that in turn causes more strikes so don't consider it worth it.

I wouldn't pair the two as than is now costing more tech time so not worth.

[nedsociety]

Originally posted by amordron:

once you get two shift OR steam reloaders swap to reloading bays. With two shift on a reloader and 10 workers on a dock your fine. With a steam reloader you counter the dock (if one has its upgrade both need it).

So you're suggesting that Docks are designed to be run in regular shift while RS are in two shifts?

That actually seems to explain the number (160% * 2/3 ~= 100%). But weird as you normally would want to turn TS on for both docks and RS. The only reason not to do that is to reduce a fraction of discontent (like you've noted in Adv RS usage -- at the cost of net loss on LP efficiency).

Originally posted by amordron:

You can use two shifts on both dock and reloader if you want at the steam level.

Well apparently Steam RS is capped then, as said in case 2 in OP.

[nedsociety]

Originally posted by amordron:

A steam reloader is 10.2 steel/hour a dock is always 9.9/hour (rounded) so its a direct counter that is with there upgrade for 10% on both without its 9 vs 9.3 on the reloader

Hmm I recall that last time I've checked it was like more than +20% difference. I might be wrong so I should check the number then.

[amordron]

Originally posted by nedsociety:

Originally posted by amordron:

A steam reloader is 10.2 steel/hour a dock is always 9.9/hour (rounded) so its a direct counter that is with there upgrade for 10% on both without its 9 vs 9.3 on the reloader

Hmm I recall that last time I've checked it was like more than +20% difference. I might be wrong so I should check the number then.

If your looking at coal you are right if your looking at a resource that matters wood and steel your not. My number is from them coal uses a diff ratio someone mentioned I never used a dock for coal as its a waste.

Coal you optimize by NOT using a dock. Its not worth setting up a dock for coal you optimize it via a charcol kiln.


Basic dock: 9/hour
Basic +1: 9.9/hour
Upgraded dock 18/hour
Upgraded dock +1: 19.8/hour (9.9 per pile)
Advanced dock 27/hour
Adv dock +1: 29.7/hour (9.9 per pile)

Reloader: 5.8/hour
Reloaded +1: 6.3/hour
steam reload: 9.3/hour
steam reload +1 : 10.2/hour
adv reload: 13.8/hour
adv reload +1: 15.18/hour

GP : 3/hour
GP +1: 3.3/hour
Gp +2: 3.6/hour


Those are the dock GP and reloader numbers that matter most (steel the most limited resource.)

[amordron]

Originally posted by nedsociety:

Originally posted by amordron:

once you get two shift OR steam reloaders swap to reloading bays. With two shift on a reloader and 10 workers on a dock your fine. With a steam reloader you counter the dock (if one has its upgrade both need it).

So you're suggesting that Docks are designed to be run in regular shift while RS are in two shifts?

That actually seems to explain the number (160% * 2/3 ~= 100%). But weird as you normally would want to turn TS on for both docks and RS. The only reason not to do that is to reduce a fraction of discontent (like you've noted in Adv RS usage -- at the cost of net loss on LP efficiency).

That fraction of discontent is massive. Docks having 4 buildings per 2 locations 8 total is a massive amount of discontent. It alone will cause strikes on higher diffs. So being able to reduce it via high tiers is quite significant. Esp when your good on a resource quite often you have more than you need of a given resource (you can pre buy gen supplies to dump resources but even doing that you reach a point of just to much) so saving on discontent by toggling on and of where needed is quite significant. LP efficiency is not that big of deal in comp as even on extreme you have more LP than you need by far. I have tryed both reloaders and even pure GP and both cases you end up with more LP than needed to the point the last game I played using convicts I let LP cap at 100 and dint bother using as just had to many workers + all the cores I needed. So dint want more mouths to feed without reason. Still got all upgrades done pre 37.

Playing deathless you have slightly less labor so LP will be more important but than you also don't got deaths so it balances out. LP is more important playing builders side thou but even they get more labor than needed. You really don't get resource bottlenecks much in this map outside of steel, even than if planed right you get enough to not bottleneck you. So the time lost from strikes become the largest bottleneck you face and further wastes labor as need to produce more food to make them happy.

[nedsociety]

Originally posted by amordron:

If your looking at coal you are right if your looking at a resource that matters wood and steel your not. My number is from them coal uses a diff ratio.

Coal you optimize by NOT using a dock. Its not worth setting up a dock for coal you optimize it via a charcol kiln.

Probably your numbers are right. I also use charcoal kiln for coals so it's irrelevant.

Chances are I might be confused for numbers on reloader upgrades. Probably thanks to TS or motivation or whatsoever.

Originally posted by amordron:

That fraction of discontent is massive. Docks having 4 buildings per 2 locations 8 total is a massive amount of discontent. It alone will cause strikes on higher diffs. So being able to reduce it via high tiers is quite significant. Esp when your good on a resource quite often you have more than you need of a given resource (you can pre buy gen supplies to dump resources but even doing that you reach a point of just to much) so saving on discontent by toggling on and of where needed is quite significant.

Yeah but I would prefer setting up exact number of people then swtich TS on/off for both docks and RS simultaneously. That way is a bit simpler micro to do the math in head :p more rollercoasters on discontent though.