Nerf Two Shifts

[nedsociety]

Maximum overall boost per workplace

Default: 100%
Extended Shift: 140%
Two Shifts: 240%

Efficiency provided per worker (normalized to 10hr)

Default: 100%
Extended Shift: 140%
Two Shifts (w/ Shift Work Coordination): 160%


Currently Two Shifts vastly outperforms Extended Shift. Not only does it provide the best efficiency per worker, but it also simply wins by default on boosting the value of Steam Core buildings and Workshops** at negligible difference on discontent. This is outright a no-brainer choice at the moment.

A suggestion is to nerf Two Shifts into Three Shifts. Three Shifts still gives the maximum workplace potential of 240%, but per-worker efficiency barely increases to 106.7% which is worse than that of Extended Shift. This would lead to a much more interesting decision: Should I focus on worker efficiency? Or should I maximize tech speed and the value of Steam Core? Previously Two Shifts dominated both aspects.


** Research speed scales nonlinearly on the total efficiency of Workshops active at any moment. There's a hard diminishing return -- e.g., any efficiency increasement over 300% worths 1/10 of that within the range of 0% ~ 100%. Since Two Shifts increases the total research time at the lower number of engineers working at any moment, i.e. "spreads out" efficiency over time, it strongly outperforms Extended Shift even without Shift Work Coordination.

[CornbredCrusader]

Two shifts is superior to extended shifts and normal shifts, but it also requires double the employment.

So running 4 workshops requires 40 engineers, and then you need the raw resources to keep up with how fast you are researching things. Which requires more manpower invested into docks/lumber mills, which means that you need more workers on food in order to feed everyone.

On higher difficulties you simply dont have the manpower and resources to make full, or even partial use of two shifts, so while it might be OP on normal difficulty, trying to run two shifts on extreme is nigh impossible

[nedsociety]

Originally posted by DeusVult117:

Two shifts is superior to extended shifts and normal shifts, but it also requires double the employment.

So running 4 workshops requires 40 engineers, and then you need the raw resources to keep up with how fast you are researching things. Which requires more manpower invested into docks/lumber mills, which means that you need more workers on food in order to feed everyone.

On higher difficulties you simply dont have the manpower and resources to make full, or even partial use of two shifts, so while it might be OP on normal difficulty, trying to run two shifts on extreme is nigh impossible

Wrong. With Shift Work Coordination it actually takes LESS people for the same amount of work compared to Extended Shift. For example if you normally take 20 workers to lumber mills in Extended Shift, you just need 17.5 of them in Two Shifts + SWC to produce same amount of wood per day. Not to mention that you have chance to reduce the number of workplaces (think of reloading stations that takes Steam Cores). Workshop scales even much better since it avoids diminishing return.

Two Shifts is simply superior in every aspects. There's no room to make choice for now.

[Harris]

Originally posted by nedsociety:

Two Shifts is simply superior in every aspects. There's no room to make choice for now.

This thread needs amordron with him doing math on everything in the game right now.

However, my two cents on this. There are totally more to this than sheer "per worker" efficiency to consider.

Consideration 1. Two shift is double manpower. This means double logistics points which are scarce on higher difficulties. So you either spend it on more people and less cores or more cores and less people.

Consideration 2. Double manpower means more people to feed and more people to shelter and in turn additional strain on food and wood producing industries.

Consideration 3. Yes, Shift Work Coordination turns it into 15 workers needed as opposed to 10 workers Extended. But that means wasting time signing another law. While this is trivial at the beginning, mid game you want to rush something very useful like Penal Colony ASAP.

Truth be told, I never really tried Extended Shifts. Why? Because I don't play something like extreme difficulty. And from the simple logic, running the same people for extended periods of time is not that effective. It will make them exhausted, discontent, prone to accidents, illnesses and the like. Now night shift is also nothing to write home about, but at least they rested during the day so are able to perform better.

Another reason I pick Two Shifts is that I normally play with convicts and they are cheap manpower who you don't really care if they starve or get sick or die whatever.

So from my point of view there's no call for any changes to how this works.

[amordron]

Originally posted by Harris:

Originally posted by nedsociety:

Two Shifts is simply superior in every aspects. There's no room to make choice for now.

This thread needs amordron with him doing math on everything in the game right now.

I wasen't planning to pop in but can as mentioned. I did the math in another thread already the long and short of it is two shift is better in basically every case to the point I would never use extended so I agree its a bit to good. I wouldn't nerf it to three shifts thou I would just make it two 10 hour shifts but at NO discontent cost. That would make extended shifts better production wise but at a discontent cost vs two shifts better for steam cores and workshop while saving you cost of making extra workplaces. With the 2nd law it would be comparable labor to extended, but still less. 132% vs 140% for 10 workers.

As for your considerations:

1) only true till 2nd law is signed. After 2nd law both extended and two shift uses the same food thou two shift needs more housing (a insignificant thing), While both causes same discontent with two shift giving more labor vs extended so no value of extended over two shift once both laws are signed. To boot extended needs more workplaces countering the cost of adding housing of two shift and even worse as uses steel.

With both laws you get more labor value on a per worker basis from two shift.

2) As mentioned above once 2nd laws are signed as extended needs 50% more food for the 2nd law its the same food for both laws. This is better than not signing the law thou as otherwise discontent is higher with extended shifts by DOUBLE this is massive as discontent is quite painful in this mode being directly tied to strike chance.

3) extended you want to sign the 2nd law also as mentioned to get rid of the discontent that if not signed alone would make me avoid extended.




The other thread is here:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/323190/discussions/0/1741139415983909788/


Ill take the main post I did the math in and not the other parts of his question.


"For tech yes double shifts are beyond better once you have the labor. Even without the labor it is due to the DR on the 2nd workshop making one workshop with two shifts massively better than even 2 with extended. 2 workshops with 5 each on extended is 182% tech over the day vs one workshop on two shift is the same labor for 240% tech over the day a rather large increase. The 2nd law for the shifts changes the ratio significantly but two shift remains WAY ahead. The 2nd law only boosts production of two shifts by cutting labor by 25%. This allows a increased day shift to further add tech speed. On the other hand extended 2nd law dose nothing to boot production.




Earlygame
two shift and extended. Both with only one of the two laws signed.

two shift is 200% labor for 240% production. Two shift also has the option of with the normal amount of people using 24 hour this gives 100% labor 120% production.

Extended is 100% labor for 140% production So having two buildings of that workplace is 200% labor for 280% production.

So extended is still better when you got the labor at the cost of higher resources for the buildings. Not the other way at first.



Problem is the fact that docks have a limited amount of them so you may want to boost them by a larger amount furthing two shifts power.

The other factor is the discontent. Two shifts causes less. Its around half as twice as many workplaces. This is big as discontent is massive in this mode due to it being tied to strike chance.




Later game

The other factor is there 2nd laws.

Two shifts after the 2nd law is 150% labor for 240% production. By extension this is a reduce in food as need less people. Even only staffing the workplace with normal amount of workers is 100% labor for 160% production better than extended.

Extended is a increase of food use but causes less discontent. I'm going to assume this makes it equal to two shift or around there but donno. People will need 50% more food thou so your food use now is EQUAL to the larger labor force of two shifts that need 50% more people. With this law extended still is 100% labor for 140% production. To extend this to 150% to compare that's 210% production.




As such late game extended not only is LESS production for the same labor force you need to make more workplaces for the people while taking either the same food as two shifts (better) OR causing more discontent. While in workshops becomes rather bad as the ratio becomes even worse than its already significantly worse number."

[Throngler]

It seems pretty overpowered. If you micro your workers, you can just turn on two shifts at the end of the day of important buildings and reassign workers and get a stupid amount of s.hit done.

[nedsociety]

Originally posted by Harris:

Consideration 1. Two shift is double manpower. This means double logistics points which are scarce on higher difficulties. So you either spend it on more people and less cores or more cores and less people.

Consideration 2. Double manpower means more people to feed and more people to shelter and in turn additional strain on food and wood producing industries.

Wrong. Again you should compare to the Extended Shift. For the same amount of work for any workplace Two Shifts takes less logistics point on both workers AND cores because TS simply takes less absolute number of workers to do the same work compared to ES.

There's no disadvantage of TS in logistics, food or healthcare at all. If you think that's a disadvantage then you might just choose to not spend logistics point and still get better result with TS.

Originally posted by Harris:

Consideration 3. Yes, Shift Work Coordination turns it into 15 workers needed as opposed to 10 workers Extended. But that means wasting time signing another law. While this is trivial at the beginning, mid game you want to rush something very useful like Penal Colony ASAP.

Laws progression are generally not as urgent as tech. This applies to The Last Autumn scenario as well. More importantly, it should be advantageous only if you don't pick Extended Shift Compensations for ES which is quite a rare case.

Originally posted by Harris:

Truth be told, I never really tried Extended Shifts. Why? Because I don't play something like extreme difficulty. And from the simple logic, running the same people for extended periods of time is not that effective. It will make them exhausted, discontent, prone to accidents, illnesses and the like. Now night shift is also nothing to write home about, but at least they rested during the day so are able to perform better.

Except for the fact that forcing them to do 33% more assignment (SWC) for 12 hours (TS) is actually more inhumane then just working normally for 14 hours (ES) and probably more things put in their stomach (ESC). If your moral tingle picked TS then probably you didn't think it through.

Originally posted by Harris:

Another reason I pick Two Shifts is that I normally play with convicts and they are cheap manpower who you don't really care if they starve or get sick or die whatever.

And still convicts work better with Two Shifts for every single reason I've said before. It does not change how TS being mindless choice.

Originally posted by Harris:

So from my point of view there's no call for any changes to how this works.

Thanks for opinion though.

[nedsociety]

Originally posted by amordron:

I wouldn't nerf it to three shifts thou I would just make it two 10 hour shifts but at NO discontent cost. That would make extended shifts better production wise but at a discontent cost vs two shifts better for steam cores and workshop while saving you cost of making extra workplaces. With the 2nd law it would be comparable labor to extended, but still less. 132% vs 140% for 10 workers.

That's one alternative.

ES: 140% potential / 140% efficiency per worker
TS: 240% / 160%
10-hours TS: 200% / 133.3%
Three Shifts: 240% / 106.7%

So basically 10-hours TS is a toned down Three Shifts. I still prefer Three Shifts for reasons:

1) I prefer the choice being more meaningful, in other words radical, for such labor laws. There should be a definite pros and cons making either choices.

2) You've already done the math and you know that the Workshop boost scales in supra-linear way. As tech progression tends to lead to better workplace productivity I don't think -6.7% initial efficiency disadvantage justifies much faster tech progression which yields much better efficiency boost overall. It would still easily overpower ES.

3) 24-hours work is more intuitive than 20-hours. I mean, putting 06:00-02:00 button might be a bit confusing at a glance :p

[† Holy Overseer †]

"NERF TWO SHIFTS?!" The ♥♥♥♥ is this heresy?

No ♥♥♥♥ Two shifts are better then extended would you rather have something work longer? or 24/7? It makes sense in a realistic sort of way as Humanity has always strived to overcome challenges in the simplest way possible.

If ANYTHING needs to be nerfed its the changing of the shifts and worker management, like they nerfed the hunting houses with workers needing to sleep. As to the opposite of the morning shift, the night shift needs to rest

A good way to choose if the work place will be schedule is during the free time (morning) and once it's set you can't change it until without suffering consequences as taking workings in the middle of one job and throwing them into a different one is not effective and stress inducing.

Realism is more important then "Balance" and in real life you get the best results if a workplace is open 24 hours as opposed to 14 hours seeing as we're not paying them by the hour.

[amordron]

Originally posted by nedsociety:

Originally posted by amordron:

I wouldn't nerf it to three shifts thou I would just make it two 10 hour shifts but at NO discontent cost. That would make extended shifts better production wise but at a discontent cost vs two shifts better for steam cores and workshop while saving you cost of making extra workplaces. With the 2nd law it would be comparable labor to extended, but still less. 132% vs 140% for 10 workers.

That's one alternative.

ES: 140% potential / 140% efficiency per worker
TS: 240% / 160%
10-hours TS: 200% / 133.3%
Three Shifts: 240% / 106.7%

So basically 10-hours TS is a toned down Three Shifts. I still prefer Three Shifts for reasons:

1) I prefer the choice being more meaningful, in other words radical, for such labor laws. There should be a definite pros and cons making both choices.

2) You've already done the math and you know that the Workshop boost works in supra-linear way. As tech progression tends to lead to better work efficiency I don't think -6.7% initial efficiency disadvantage justifies much faster tech progression which yields much better efficiency boost overall. It still easily overpowers ES.

3) 24-hours work is more intuitive than 20-hours. I mean, putting 06:00-02:00 button is a bit confusing at a glance :p

I like to not change the org intent of the law personally. People wanted night shifts which is where I believe the law came from so two shift makes sense to me. Esp as three shifts starts to get more and more confusing on how you explain how the odd man out worker 4 is spilt between the shifts. For two shift its easy to say hes split shift but with 3 shifts and 4 workers the 4th cant split between three shifts easy. So wouldn't make sense for each shift to produce the same which just is less clean of a implementation.

While three shifts further is reducing the hours of the workers to be close to short shift levels on a per shift basis As such if using your three shift way I would want to see a +1 safety boost as well. If it was 106% with +1 safety ya I would consider that fair.


Yes 10 hour two shifts would still be better than ES in most cases which is 100% fine. Just like sawdust is just better than soup on easy and normal as the sick rate is just nothing. On hard its a tossup and on extreme unless you are hard pressed for food and need it at all cost soup is better.

Or snowpit that is just outright better than cemitary unless people are dieing left and right and if you are its not really helpig you as its costing you labor time than.

While as mentioned above realism is just as important as balance one law being strong than the other is fine so long as its not night and day this is here close enough. The current is a bit overboard.


With 10 hours there in line with each other that you trade of a law that dose little for anywhere but workshops and steam core locations till your 2 laws in and than still results in a worse eff at first for everywhere but workshops and steam core locations. While yes later on the tech boost will put you ahead which is fine its a trade of thou for a experienced player its a easy call it make. For a new player the boost to all industry can be better.

In the end they are both viable at that level with two shift still being the "go to" for vets.

I dislike the idea of nerfing the law to the point where its so low using it anywhere but workshops/steam core areas is just not worth it. 106% is that low that its just not worth it other than saving setup cost for the building.

If the devs feel two shift is two good still as 10 hours or if they want 24 hours still the trick is to add a work productivity drop. Three shifts as said above just adds other complications that are less clean. A 20% hit to work speed for two shifts on 24 hours would counter it well. as than: 10 workers is 128%. Slightly less but still high enough to be worth in other industry's while maintain 24/7 work. This can be attributed to overlap between the shifts as one shift tries to find what another shift did/correcting there "messups" resulting in the loss of time.

The above is really the best way I see to do it to maintain both realism while getting better balance.

[nedsociety]

Originally posted by † Holy Overseer †:

No ♥♥♥♥ Two shifts are better then extended would you rather have something work longer? or 24/7? It makes sense in a realistic sort of way as Humanity has always strived to overcome challenges in the simplest way possible.

...

Realism is more important then "Balance" and in real life you get the best results if a workplace is open 24 hours as opposed to 14 hours seeing as we're not paying them by the hour.

Yeah both working overtime (sigh) and multiple shifts are actually working strats IRL. It does not mean that shifts are always superior than overtime working in general.

If "realism" was the only factor then we should have been able to research multiple things simultaneously with no diminishing return penalty from the beginning. This is a video game, man. There must be a balance and viable consequences between choices.

Originally posted by † Holy Overseer †:

If ANYTHING needs to be nerfed its the changing of the shifts and worker management, like they nerfed the hunting houses with workers needing to sleep. As to the opposite of the morning shift, the night shift needs to rest

A good way to choose if the work place will be schedule is during the free time (morning) and once it's set you can't change it until without suffering consequences as taking workings in the middle of one job and throwing them into a different one is not effective and stress inducing.

I've said nothing about abusing TS off-shifts to work in other places (like microing pre-nerf hunters). TS is already overpowered without such tricks. Interesting point though -- I didn't check out but if it's actually possible to abuse off-shifts to other workplaces then it further strengthens my point on Two Shifts being overpowered. Heh.

[† Holy Overseer †]

Originally posted by nedsociety:

[quote=Yeah both working overtime (sigh) and multiple shifts are actually working strats IRL. It does not mean that shifts are always superior than overtime working in general.

If "realism" was the only factor then we should have been able to research multiple things simultaneously with no diminishing return penalty from the beginning. This is a video game, man. There must be a balance and viable consequences between choices.

I mean having mulitple labs research different tech simultaneously would be op but I mean...it still makes sense. and I'm not disagreeing with you in the choice and consequences it's why i love this game

Originally posted by nedsociety:

[quote=I've said nothing about abusing TS off-shifts to work in other places (like microing pre-nerf hunters). TS is already overpowered without such tricks. Interesting point though -- I didn't check out but if it's actually possible to abuse off-shifts to other workplaces then it further strengthens my point on Two Shifts being overpowered. Heh.

Well ♥♥♥♥ I think I shot myself in the foot there

Originally posted by nedsociety:

[quote=Yeah both working overtime (sigh) and multiple shifts are actually working strats IRL. It does not mean that shifts are always superior than overtime working in general.

Yeah well thanks to "basic human rights" we can't have nice things. But in their situation, 24 hour shifts makes more sense to be superior. Hell I'll take the 3 shifts if we can get all of them short shifts. That's actually the best of both worlds. It'll raise efficiency plus give us a nice safety bonus with a smooth motivation bonus.

[nedsociety]

Originally posted by amordron:

I like to not change the org intent of the law personally. People wanted night shifts which is where I believe the law came from so two shift makes sense to me. Esp as three shifts starts to get more and more confusing on how you explain how the odd man out worker 4 is spilt between the shifts. For two shift its easy to say hes split shift but with 3 shifts and 4 workers the 4th cant split between three shifts easy. So wouldn't make sense for each shift to produce the same which just is less clean of a implementation.

That point is already broken with SWC -- we're already splitting 15 people to two groups so equal distribution doesn't really work for now. Even Two Shifts in earlier scenarios (Medical Posts) split people in 3/2.

Originally posted by amordron:

While three shifts further is reducing the hours of the workers to be close to short shift levels on a per shift basis As such if using your three shift way I would want to see a +1 safety boost as well. If it was 106% with +1 safety ya I would consider that fair.

Fair point. I'm not against it. If Short Shift laws become the child tree of Three Shifts it would quite make sense.

Originally posted by amordron:

Yes 10 hour two shifts would still be better than ES in most cases which is 100% fine. Just like sawdust is just better than soup on easy and normal as the sick rate is just nothing. On hard its a tossup and on extreme unless you are hard pressed for food and need it at all cost soup is better.

Or snowpit that is just outright better than cemitary unless people are dieing left and right and if you are its not really helpig you as its costing you labor time than.

While as mentioned above realism is just as important as balance one law being strong than the other is fine so long as its not night and day this is here close enough. The current is a bit overboard.

With 10 hours there in line with each other that you trade of a law that dose little for anywhere but workshops and steam core locations till your 2 laws in and than still results in a worse eff at first for everywhere but workshops and steam core locations. While yes later on the tech boost will put you ahead which is fine its a trade of thou for a experienced player its a easy call it make. For a new player the boost to all industry can be better.

In the end they are both viable at that level with two shift still being the "go to" for vets.

And they says negative reviews on Frostpunk where "Devs are forcing me to do their way". Not that I agree to that level (they're mostly beginners), but I cannot say such "beginner traps" are design-wise good enough.

Faith is vastly different to Order yet we don't really say that Faith is always better than Order or vice versa -- this is a good design. Soups, Snowpits and Two Shifts? Meh.

Originally posted by amordron:

I dislike the idea of nerfing the law to the point where its so low using it anywhere but workshops/steam core areas is just not worth it. 106% is that low that its just not worth it other than saving setup cost for the building.

The productivity boosts from techs are usually in line of 200% and 300% for major tiers and 110% for minor upgrades. For example both Three Shifts and Extended shifts starts research on Upgraded Docks at day 0. Assume that TS gets it in day 2 and ES at day 3. Then TS stockpiles more resources than ES until day 6. And it accumulates all the way up the final tiers. The advantage ends when both sides reach final tier upgrades and some time spent afterwards. In Extreme by then it's usually endgame, which means that 106% is still viable.

And one more point -- the last quest in TLA is obviously time-consuming research quests.

[nedsociety]

Originally posted by Walker:

It seems pretty overpowered. If you micro your workers, you can just turn on two shifts at the end of the day of important buildings and reassign workers and get a stupid amount of s.hit done.

Originally posted by † Holy Overseer †:

If ANYTHING needs to be nerfed its the changing of the shifts and worker management, like they nerfed the hunting houses with workers needing to sleep. As to the opposite of the morning shift, the night shift needs to rest

A good way to choose if the work place will be schedule is during the free time (morning) and once it's set you can't change it until without suffering consequences as taking workings in the middle of one job and throwing them into a different one is not effective and stress inducing.

LOL just found that Walker confirmed such abuse is actually possible.

[amordron]

Originally posted by nedsociety:

Originally posted by amordron:

I like to not change the org intent of the law personally. People wanted night shifts which is where I believe the law came from so two shift makes sense to me. Esp as three shifts starts to get more and more confusing on how you explain how the odd man out worker 4 is spilt between the shifts. For two shift its easy to say hes split shift but with 3 shifts and 4 workers the 4th cant split between three shifts easy. So wouldn't make sense for each shift to produce the same which just is less clean of a implementation.

That point is already broken with SWC -- we're already splitting 15 people to two groups so equal distribution doesn't really works for now. Even Two Shifts in earlier scenarios (Medical Posts) split people in 3/2.

Originally posted by amordron:

While three shifts further is reducing the hours of the workers to be close to short shift levels on a per shift basis As such if using your three shift way I would want to see a +1 safety boost as well. If it was 106% with +1 safety ya I would consider that fair.

Fair point. I'm not against it. If Short Shift laws become the child tree of Three Shifts it would quite make sense.

Originally posted by amordron:

Yes 10 hour two shifts would still be better than ES in most cases which is 100% fine. Just like sawdust is just better than soup on easy and normal as the sick rate is just nothing. On hard its a tossup and on extreme unless you are hard pressed for food and need it at all cost soup is better.

Or snowpit that is just outright better than cemitary unless people are dieing left and right and if you are its not really helpig you as its costing you labor time than.

While as mentioned above realism is just as important as balance one law being strong than the other is fine so long as its not night and day this is here close enough. The current is a bit overboard.

With 10 hours there in line with each other that you trade of a law that dose little for anywhere but workshops and steam core locations till your 2 laws in and than still results in a worse eff at first for everywhere but workshops and steam core locations. While yes later on the tech boost will put you ahead which is fine its a trade of thou for a experienced player its a easy call it make. For a new player the boost to all industry can be better.

In the end they are both viable at that level with two shift still being the "go to" for vets.

And they says negative reviews on Frostpunk where "Devs are forcing me to do their way". Not that I agree to that level (they're mostly beginners), but I cannot say such "beginner traps" are design-wise good enough.

Faith is vastly different to Order yet we don't really say that Faith is always better than Order or vice versa -- this is a good design. Soups, Snowpits and Two Shifts? Meh.

Originally posted by amordron:

I dislike the idea of nerfing the law to the point where its so low using it anywhere but workshops/steam core areas is just not worth it. 106% is that low that its just not worth it other than saving setup cost for the building.

The productivity boosts from techs are usually in line of 200% and 300% for major tiers and 110% for minor upgrades. For example both Three Shifts and Extended shifts starts research on Upgraded Docks at day 0. Assume that TS gets it in day 2 and ES at day 3. Then TS stockpiles more resources than ES until day 6. And it accumulates all the way up the final tiers. The advantage ends when both sides reach final tier upgrades and some time spent afterwards. In Extreme by then it's usually endgame, which means that 106% is still viable.

And one more point -- the last quest in TLA is obviously time-consuming research quests.

Two shifts you can spilt people properly as I mentioned in the other post. Two shifts the odd person dose a spilt shift so each shift still has same man hours. Theee shifts you can’t spilt 4 three ways as only one can spilt shift so leaves ones shift short unlike two shift. This is how it currently works in the game.



Never said 106 is not viable but it’s so low it dosent feel worthwhile. Feel is a vary big part of balance is something dosent feel good it’s not balanced well.

106 is at a point your basicly only having it for work places and steam core buildings worthless elsewhere unless there is other buffs to match is like plus one saftey. Where than short shifts give that without a discontent cost vs three shift has one.

But 106 in the current way is to weak outside workshops for not getting that till two laws in. It just would feel bad. A law of this nature exp as it blocks extended shifts should feel good in all industry so at least 120. Otherwise if it dint lockout extended I would be fine with 106 with no other effect I can see as than you can judge what industry you want first with law and get both in the end.

But so long as it’s three shifts needs to have that saftey bonus or short shifts make no real sense. Better to keep it as two shifts and adjust the workers efficiency to get a better productivity vs labor ratio. Three shifts as mention dosent spilt well with odd worker amounts and branches into short shift territory to much. Unless the devs are wanting to hybrid the two which I don’t think they do.

[amordron]

Originally posted by nedsociety:

Originally posted by Walker:

It seems pretty overpowered. If you micro your workers, you can just turn on two shifts at the end of the day of important buildings and reassign workers and get a stupid amount of s.hit done.

Originally posted by † Holy Overseer †:

If ANYTHING needs to be nerfed its the changing of the shifts and worker management, like they nerfed the hunting houses with workers needing to sleep. As to the opposite of the morning shift, the night shift needs to rest

A good way to choose if the work place will be schedule is during the free time (morning) and once it's set you can't change it until without suffering consequences as taking workings in the middle of one job and throwing them into a different one is not effective and stress inducing.

LOL just found that Walker confirmed such abuse is actually possible.

Donno about 24 hour shifts and abuse with them but short shifts you most def can’t.

If you swap short shifts to reg shifts or 24 hour after the shift ends more than a few times you will take a large discontent hit and get a warning that people feel cheated.