How does Two Shifts work exactly?

[DazaKiwi]

In the new expansion The Last Autumn i signed for Two Shifts and Shift Coordination. Then in work hours for the Workshop i set it to 24 hours. The required number of workers normally is 10. So how do you account for engineers who will be doing the second shift? i mean will i need to keep the number required free on top of the ones currently working? how does it work exactly?

[amordron]

the amount of workers is spilt between the two shifts.

If 4 workers in the workshop 2 is day 2 is night.

Odd numbers use the odd one as half and half he splits between the two shifts so you get the same production per shift.

You need to keep workers in there if you remove eg 5 durring the day you will lose 2.5 people worth of work being done during the day and the same for the night.

That being said swiching the workplace back to days only you can take 5 out without losing the production durring the day.

At night you need 10 in there to get the value of 5 working at night thou. Unless you got the 2nd law that makes a workplace with 10 have a lower max. In this case both shifts get full production as if it was staffed at 10 with the lower max.

I haven't noticed any hidden debuffs like with hunters yet but there might be I wasn't trying to find a exploit thou so I left people in.



For a workshop thou its better to have 10 people spilt shift than two workshops by FAR.

In the best case comp 1 workshop with 10 vs 2 workshops with 5.

IN case one you get 24 hours of 100% tech time. Total of 240% over the day

In case two you get 10 hours of 130% tech time, total of 130% over the day. as workshop two works at half speed due to workshop DR.

So the 24 hour shift not only exteneded each shift by 2 hours increasing the value of the first 5 you dint have the DR for a massive increase of nearly double with the same workforce.


This gets even better with the 2nd law to make your 2nd shift only need 50% of the workforce as it treats each shift as fully staffed. So not worth trying to turn of than on to free up workings for the night shift durring the day as would lose the 2 hours bonus and the half workers needed bonus from the 2nd law doing so.

[DazaKiwi]

Thanks for your reply amordron. A lot of info to digest there. So in short with this system if you have full required amount of workers for 100% production this wont change but means say 10 max, becomes 5 during day and 5 during night- but still producing 100% correct?

[amordron]

Originally posted by DazaKiwi:

Thanks for your reply amordron. A lot of info to digest there. So in short with this system if you have full required amount of workers for 100% production this wont change but means say 10 max, becomes 5 during day and 5 during night- but still producing 100% correct?

yes

But 8 workers in a 10 worker workplace wont mean 100% in the day and 60% at night. It will be 4 workers per shift so 80% per shift as the workplace norm would have 5 workers so 4 is 80%. As shifts are always equal in size.

Unless you got the half staff 2nd shift law. Than that 10 person workplace becomes 8 (as its rounded up) So those 8 workers now make the workplace once again work at 100% per shift.


But with two shifts each shift is 2 hours longer than normal so even no in both cases you have 100% production those extra two hours makes the double shift still produce more on a per shift basis also which is the reason for the discontent as your still extending there work shift note this causes less discontent than extended from what I can tell.

[Remove skull merchant]

The devs just tried to make things more complicated ;)

[amordron]

Originally posted by Infinite cup of Serbian water:

The devs just tried to make things more complicated ;)

Not sure what you mean its really not that complicated of a concept. You have two shifts that last longer than the base it was something asked for by the players.

So its twice as effective for twice the labor. The bonus being the extra 20% shift length its no different than extended shifts but extended gives 40%.

The value from two shifts comes in getting more labor for lower building cost as need less places or work. The workshop example is the one odd ball that gets quite a bit of value from 24 hour shifts as of how DR works. This was the same for 24 hour shifts in the base game so its not more complicated in that regard even as we already had that case before.

[Remove skull merchant]

Originally posted by amordron:

Originally posted by Infinite cup of Serbian water:

The devs just tried to make things more complicated ;)

Not sure what you mean its really not that complicated of a concept. You have two shifts that last longer than the base it was something asked for by the players.

So its twice as effective for twice the labor. The bonus being the extra 20% shift length its no different than extended shifts but extended gives 40%.

The value from two shifts comes in getting more labor for lower building cost as need less places or work. The workshop example is the one odd ball that gets quite a bit of value from 24 hour shifts as of how DR works. This was the same for 24 hour shifts in the base game so its not more complicated in that regard even as we already had that case before.

See the - ;) - at the end of my post, it was a joke.

[lymphnodes]

Am I not understanding Two Shifts or is there some kind of bug? I thought it meant there would be a night shift and a day shift with only half of the total number of workers actually working on each shift. But on my current game I have it turned on for my fishing docks and some gathering posts and it seems all 20 workers at each site are working 24 hour days.

Eventually I start getting an alert that they're getting hungry because no one ever takes a break to eat even though there's plenty of food. Am I missing something?

[amordron]

Originally posted by lymphnodes:

Am I not understanding Two Shifts or is there some kind of bug? I thought it meant there would be a night shift and a day shift with only half of the total number of workers actually working on each shift. But on my current game I have it turned on for my fishing docks and some gathering posts and it seems all 20 workers at each site are working 24 hour days.

Eventually I start getting an alert that they're getting hungry because no one ever takes a break to eat even though there's plenty of food. Am I missing something?

Half and half do work each shift.

You can tell this by the fact you still have people able to build when everyone is on 24 hour shifts.

Yes it will show all the workers in the worker tab as the worker tab is not broken down by shifts it only shows who is assigned to that building.

As for them not going to eat I have had fishing posts on 24 hours constantly since unlocking two shifts basicly every game not seeing that.

As such I will say the same words I always to reports on a issue unless you provide a pic and ideally multi there is no way to tell what is going on to help you. As you are likly missing something but can’t see that something without pics to know what’s going on.

It is vary possible you are bugged and if so a picture is esp key as the devs will need that to fix the bug also.

[Carlos]

Originally posted by amordron:

So its twice as effective for twice the labor. The bonus being the extra 20% shift length its no different than extended shifts but extended gives 40%.

So extended is better early on when you're short of labour but double shifts are way better late game when you're overflowing with workers. Too bad you can only sign one.

[amordron]

Originally posted by Carlos77:

Originally posted by amordron:

So its twice as effective for twice the labor. The bonus being the extra 20% shift length its no different than extended shifts but extended gives 40%.

So extended is better early on when you're short of labour but double shifts are way better late game when you're overflowing with workers. Too bad you can only sign one.

For tech yes double shifts are beyond better once you have the labor. Even without the labor it is due to the DR on the 2nd workshop making one workshop with two shifts massively better than even 2 with extended. 2 workshops with 5 each on extended is 182% tech over the day vs one workshop on two shift is the same labor for 240% tech over the day a rather large increase. The 2nd law for the shifts changes the ratio significantly but two shift remains WAY ahead. The 2nd law only boosts production of two shifts by cutting labor by 25%. This allows a increased day shift to further add tech speed. On the other hand extended 2nd law dose nothing to boot production.




Earlygame
two shift and extended. Both with only one of the two laws signed.

two shift is 200% labor for 240% production. Two shift also has the option of with the normal amount of people using 24 hour this gives 100% labor 120% production.

Extended is 100% labor for 140% production So having two buildings of that workplace is 200% labor for 280% production.

So extended is still better when you got the labor at the cost of higher resources for the buildings. Not the other way at first.



Problem is the fact that docks have a limited amount of them so you may want to boost them by a larger amount furthing two shifts power.

The other factor is the discontent. Two shifts causes less. Its around half as twice as many workplaces. This is big as discontent is massive in this mode due to it being tied to strike chance.




Later game

The other factor is there 2nd laws.

Two shifts after the 2nd law is 150% labor for 240% production. By extension this is a reduce in food as need less people. Even only staffing the workplace with normal amount of workers is 100% labor for 160% production better than extended.

Extended is a increase of food use but causes less discontent. I'm going to assume this makes it equal to two shift or around there but donno. People will need 50% more food thou so your food use now is EQUAL to the larger labor force of two shifts that need 50% more people. With this law extended still is 100% labor for 140% production. To extend this to 150% to compare that's 210% production.




As such late game extended not only is LESS production for the same labor force you need to make more workplaces for the people while taking either the same food as two shifts (better) OR causing more discontent. While in workshops becomes rather bad as the ratio becomes even worse than its already significantly worse number.