Coal not coming in.

[Sneaky Fox]

Hi. I have a problem getting enough coal in the vanilla szenario.
I have 2 steam hubs, one in 24h and one in only daytime use. My generator is range 2 and heat level 1, no overdrive. I already collected all the coal on the map and are now using 2 steam pumpers to get coal from a deposit and a coal mine, run by the winterhome atomenon. but I still, while heating those mines with heaters to avoid people getting sick, I get far less coal in than I use up. It just turned night with my stoarage only lasting 4 more hours. I also just discovered winterhome and...well...my hope is low, but my discontent is as well. I fear I might loose a lot of people soon. I turned 24h work shift on in one of the coal pumpers (the automenon should work 24/7 anyway) but, my supply is still going down and will reach zero before dawn.
I have this wierd icon on my coal pumpers telling me, they cannot really work because the storage is full...which is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. I have about 100-400 coal in storage and have 900 max coal storage. any ideas?

[Elitewrecker PT]

Coal thumpers don't directly give you coal. they produce coal PILES which have to be manned like the initial coal piles you gathered.

[Lunaire]

The coal thumpers are creating coal piles infront of them, you need to allocate workers to gather coal from those piles, either directly or in the form of gathering posts. The tooltip does tell you that a single coal thumper can supply 2 gathering posts.

[PhailRaptor]

This is precisely why I never use Thumpers. The extra gathering step is just too much of a hassle. Compared to slapping down a Coal Mine, which can then be Automated in a single step instead of 3+....

I also ran the numbers. At full upgrades on everything, a Steam Thumper will supply 4 Gathering Posts and people working the pile directly, but doing all of that produces only slightly more coal per hour than a single Advanced Coal Mine. 163.6 per hour for the Thumper, versus 124.2 per hour from the Mine. And when you get to late game and you kind of need to use Automotons to keep it all running, you're gonna need 6 Automotons for the Thumper setup versus just the 1 for the Advanced Mine. That's also 6 Cores for the Thumper versus only 4 for the Mine.

Personally, it's just not worth it.

[Elitewrecker PT]

You get tons of unused man labor at the end, you can easily fill that.

[Aturchomicz]

Originally posted by Elitewrecker PT:

You get tons of unused man labor at the end, you can easily fill that.

therfore,Thumpers are better late game but worse early game

[RTiger32]

I did my first playthrough using only thumpers, and had little trouble with it. I had 2 steam thumpers, with 5 automotons working the piles and thumpers. Thats roughly 69 coal per hour with the automotons at 95% I also have 6 gathering posts nearby Together it is more than 4000 coal a day, plenty for most situations. Thats only 5 steam cores.

I'm not sure if just one advanced coal mine with all upgrades matches that, but the number of cores isn't that imbalanced. Granted, at the end when you have to use automotons for everything, my output falls into the red, but I planned for that by stockpiling over 30k coal.

[::Maethendias::]

people dont understand that you can fully automate gathering posts

[RTiger32]

I am aware, but having all my automotons on my infirmarys is more important in the storm.

[::Maethendias::]

^infirmarys work during the storm

[RTiger32]

Yes, but having my automotons on them gives higher efficiency compared to if they were manned.

[::Maethendias::]

its acutally the other way around, dont automatons have REDUCED efficiency compared to people?

[Aturchomicz]

Originally posted by ::Maethendias:::

its acutally the other way around, dont automatons have REDUCED efficiency compared to people?

Automatons are always more eficiennt because they work through the night

[::Maethendias::]

yeah because infirmaries and the likes dont -.-

[::Maethendias::]

also, a thumper setup is MUCH MORE efficient than a single mine when you use automatons

1 gathering post from the thumper get around 19 coal per hour, while you only get about 20 per mine with automatons

[PhailRaptor]

Originally posted by ::Maethendias:::

its acutally the other way around, dont automatons have REDUCED efficiency compared to people?

You can raise Automotons to 90% efficiency through the normal techs, and by completing the relevant quest line you can get an extra 5% (might be 10% if you don't immediatley have a Steam Core for the third stage, only did that once). In addition to this, the Medical Automoton Efficiency techs give you more efficiency. I don't rememeber the increase off the top of my head, but Infirmaries staffed by max research Automotons generally reach 158% efficiency (though that includes things like Organ Transplants).

Originally posted by ::Maethendias:::

also, a thumper setup is MUCH MORE efficient than a single mine when you use automatons

1 gathering post from the thumper get around 19 coal per hour, while you only get about 20 per mine with automatons

It's a lot more complicated than that based on whether or not you have the relevant efficiency techs or not.

A Coal Thumper @ 10 employees adds 65.9/h to the pile, while a Steam Thumper adds 142.3/h. After the Injectors tech, these values are increased by 15% to 75.8/h and 163.6/h.

With 15 people on the Coal Pile itself, you're getting 20.9/h. This is increased by 15% for each of the Gathering techs, to 24/h first, then 27.1/h.

Each Gathering Post @ 10 employees collects, per Pile in range, 27.5/h. This is also increased by the Gathering techs, to 31.6/h first, then 35.8/h.

At full research, to collect 100% of the Thumper's output requires 4.5 Gathering posts (or 3.8 while working the Pile). That totals to 6 work sites whether you work the Pile or use the extra Gathering Post, so would require 6 Automotons to man, which in turn costs 6 Steam Cores.

Coal Mines have 3 levels -- Basic, Steam, and Advanced. With 10 employees, Basic produces 27.6/h -- Steam produces 69/h -- Advanced produces 103.5/h. There are 2 Coal Mining techs, each one increasing the output by 10%. This increases Basic to 30.4/h first, then 33.12. Steam is increased to 75.9/h first, then 82.8/h. Advanced is increased to 113.9/h first, then 124.2/h.

They will cost 1, 2, and 3 Steam Cores respectively, but each one is only a single work site, and as such requires only a single Automoton (and only a single additional Steam Core) to man.

Full utilization for a Steam Thumper complex only produces 39.4 more Coal per hour than a single Advanced Coal Mine. If you are manning them with people, the Steam Thumper will not cost you a single Steam Core, while the Advanced Coal Mine will cost you 3. Using Automotons instead will cost 6 Steam Cores for the Thumper complex, while the Mine will only require 1 additioan Core.

Interestingly, due to the Gathering Post method from the Thumpers, you don't actually need extra Gathering Posts per Thumper -- since the Gathering Posts rate is per pile, you could arrange your Thumpers and rotate them in such a way that the Piles are placed as close together as possible. This gives them a synergistic property when built en masse that is absent from the Coal Mines. Coal Mines are static in this regard. In A New Home, Coal Mines get hit with that event which you can choose to sacrifice population or lose 80% Coal Mine rate as well, where Thumpers do not get affected by this.

So if you are building several Thumpers, it is more efficient, both in manpower and Steam Cores, than Coal Mines. Using all 3 Mine Sites would cost you 12 Steam Cores -- 3 per Advanced Mine, and 1 for each Automoton crew -- where as building 3 Thumpers would still only be 5 Gathering Posts, so 8 Steam Cores. But this also costs you significantly more space, as Thumpers are quite large buildings.

Trade-offs, trade-offs, trade-offs.....