Child Labor is a trap.

[Black Sheep Wall]

Been seeing this a lot lately, people talking about Child Labor like it's a good choice.
It isn't.

It's a temporary boost to production that is outclassed by being able to tech up sooner with Apprentices.

In games like this, it's important to understand what your "Gates" are, the mechanics that restrict your ability to meet your Win Condition.

Now, there are many ways to "solve" Frostpunk, but generally speaking, if your goal is to have as many warm, happy, healthy people as possible, then it's helpful to recognize where your Gates/Bottlenecks are.

The 3 biggest Gates are Steam Cores, Tech Upgrades and Steel.

For all intents and purposes, this is a 4x game, and typically a 4x game is going to continuously cycle 3 stages - Growth, Stablization and Efficiency.

A Growth stage is where you expand your empire to harvesting more resources.
A Stablization stage is where you lock in your ability to sustain your empire at it's current state indefinately(roughly speaking).
An Efficency stage is where you find ways to overproduce in your stable state so you can start the cycle again (this is not Growth, it's not about having more dollars, it's about getting your dollar to do more for less((Example: You mine coal 10% faster, boosting the productivity of an existing mine as opposed to aquiring another mine)).

Frostpunk is not The Roman Empire, which is to say, it isn't a pyramid scheme.
It's not a house of cards that tumbles down if you stop expanding, meaning that it follows the model I just outlined instead. (Child Labor might actually be [mechanically] useful if this were an expantionist game, but it isn't.)((Rome fell because it stopped expanding and could not find a stable state, step 2))(((There are models for continously expanding empires, but they do not apply to this game for mechanical reasons.)))

That said, now we can understand our Gates.
The Gates prevent progress, and ANYTHING you can do to widen those Gates and allow more progress to flow through them, is usually the most important thing you can do if your current state is stable.

So, in general, a checklist for you to keep refering to while you play(daily for example):

Am I stable, and if not, how do I become stable? If yes then -
Can I harvest Steam Cores faster/sooner, if so, how? If no then -
Can I Tech Up faster, if so, how? If no then -
Can I boost Steel Production, if so, how?

I promise you, if you are holding these priorities in mind, and work to meet these goals, your City will be stupid efficient in no time.

Assuming these are proper Gate identifications, it should be clear that Apprentices are superior to Child Labor because one solves our gates directly while the other one can ONLY affect our gates indirectly, if at all.

You have been illuminated, go forth and prosper.

Edit: A roughball way to determine Gates is to continually ask "What am I waiting on right now?", and typically, this will identify your different gates over time. The more a specific answer pops up over the course of a game, the higher it's priority as a Gate is. Example: I was waiting on Steel a lot more than I thought I would that game, it must be a higher priority Gate than I thought it was, next game I should try and get more Steel before I need it.

[Zalumon]

Quite the lecture. In my experience, child labor is much better - if not crucial - than tech apprentices. During the first half of the game, use emergency shift to always keep at least one workshop running, and later use automatons.

[Natjur]

Yes, Child shelters law are better then Child Labor once you pick Engineers Helper. (has anyone picked Medic Helpers? Maybe a new map where there are endless sick) But its more fun sending the kids to the coal face when its -80 outside. They need to add an achievement to see if you get a kid being a 4 time amputate and still back to work....

Still you posted a long post, when just 2 test games with the number of days it took you get a scout would prove your point. One with Child shelters and one with Child Labor because the faster you get scouts, the better your city is. That would prove with is the better path (even tho I already agree with you)

Edit: If you send 1 guy out to mine coal in the cold, and each time they get frost bite and lose a limb, get a prosthetic and then you send them out again....they can get over 4 prosthetic limbs...

[Black Sheep Wall]

Facts > Anecdotes

Also, you can emergency shift AND use apprentices...(more importantly you can use extended shifts in conjunction)

And FYI, the reason it feels crucial is because you aren't teching fast enough.
You're behind the curve.

If you're ahead of the curve there is 0 pressure.
I've got my city fully automated and all research complete before the storm even hits.
Everyone sits in their houses unemployed, we've got 2 weeks worth of coal(could have been more but I stopped caring), all heat is cut off except to homes and medics/infirmaries and all I do is feather overdrive and extra ration anyone who gets sick.

[Zalumon]

I never had a problem with the tech tree. Have you tried the Refugees scenario on hard? I don't think I could have done it without child labor.

[AusDingo]

meh meh meh ma ma meh

[Tazkar]

Child Labor makes the early game far easier due to the extra hands.

You can get all the Tech you need to survive with or without Child Labor, so it's not really a trap.

With Child Labor you can get 4 Tech workshops quicker and easier and potentially start throwing out tech.

Heck the game I just finished I did with No Child Labor, and Medic Apprentices running with 2 Tech Workshops for the majority of the game and I still got everything I needed tech wise to survive. And Honestly what my bottleneck was in that game beyond poor scout management was running with zero auxillary steam generators as I was going for that achievement so relied entirely on increased gen range.

[Thanos]

"Rome fell because it stopped expanding and could not find a stable state."

I think your grasp of history may be a bit lacking. You may want to read up on Rome a bit more before making statements like this.

[Kitten Food]

I don't get the need for a thesis post on one way of playing. You can use them or not. Big deal. I personally never ran into any issues with hope or disconent having child labor. Still beat the main campaign twice with/without it.

Nonsense long post.

[Mavrah]

Child shelters give a permanent hope boost. I prefer medic apprentices, since the boost to research speed is so low, and larger cities are likely to have more sick people.

[Phy44]

Having 2 gathering posts maned by children to keep the thumper drained seemed like a pretty good idea to me, until someone got the bright idea that kids should get double rations. The greedy lot.

[El Guapo]

Originally posted by raykj02:

Child shelters give a permanent hope boost. I prefer medic apprentices, since the boost to research speed is so low, and larger cities are likely to have more sick people.

Hope can be nullified later though by picking the dictator laws.

With faster tech, you can get insulated houses etc. earlier and thus reduce the number of sick people.

I can only imagine that medic apprentice is best in the "refugees" scenario.

[Anaztazioch]

Really ? 1 Workshop ?
You play on super easy mode ?
With 2 Workshops fully in use with extended shifts, i cant make all techs before the storm hits. I have to skip all factory techs exept automaton efficiency, dont do kiln, ignore wall drill and hothouses.

Also on hard, 2 coal mines or 1 thumper with 2 gatherers is enough for level 2 generator on early temperature drop to -50 (thats when level 1 generator and heater is not enough for medical tent)

On extreme, you need more than 2 coal mines to supply your self with coal.
So far i have not found a way to do it without putting 30+ workforce in coal gathering.

Please tell me how can you do extreme, where you need 3 hunters, 3 tents (hardly enough), while you have a scouting party to grow.

Another thing, is that you can go religious route and get healing houses where even children can work.

Also, whats the bonus for medical/tech helpers ?

[Flamerog]

Just after extreme endless mode(stop at day 110 cuz with everything secured i had no threat to me so just quit).

Child shelters are the best thing that you could have, two workshop working on emergency shifts (one at the time then move all workers to another and start emergency again) with tech helpers is gamechanging.

On extreme your ppls get sick even at max temp so you cannot spare more enginners for tech advancement and techs are crucial for extreme.

Temperature is going down rly fast and your chldrens working at gathering posts could only get sick and ruin your hope and discontent when they could give you fat tech bonus.

[Anaztazioch]

fair enough

[1upRC]

The one thing I dislike about child labor is that you get events about people keeping their kids home. Child labor wasn't quite the same as forced labor mandated by the state though. When I initially choose it I simply imagined children could work, but that it would be up to their parents, as was the case for much of history. The real reason child labor ever existed in the first place was simply because for most of histoy we lived on the edge of survival and everybody in a family worked to survive. Child labor was never really a moral issue until people were generally secure enough in their survival to make ends meet without it. But oh well, minor quiblies I guess. :)