Refuge scenario on hard. Need help.

[Kestas]

Hello. Need advise on start build for this scenario. Cant figure out how to start to hold up.

[Hatti]

There are plenty of tips for this here already. Just use the search function. For myself i can say, do yourself a favor and try it by yourself. Maybe play it on normal first. Finding out how to start and get self sustainable on start is the major part of this scenario

[Kestas]

Originally posted by Hatti:

There are plenty of tips for this here already. Just use the search function. For myself i can say, do yourself a favor and try it by yourself. Maybe play it on normal first. Finding out how to start and get self sustainable on start is the major part of this scenario

Search didnt show any good info for this scenario. Normal is too easy and dont teach anything usefull for hard. All strateges i tryed from normal failed.

[Alex the Great]

Originally posted by Hatti:

There are plenty of tips for this here already. Just use the search function. For myself i can say, do yourself a favor and try it by yourself. Maybe play it on normal first. Finding out how to start and get self sustainable on start is the major part of this scenario

Wow, so helpful.

[CloudsInTheSky]

My best advice: hunters work at night. Once they are back in town and they deposited all the food (make sure to check that) you can place them to work in another spot. This is very useful if you are low on workers. The only issue that is truly difficult in the beginning is heat. On hard everything gets colder fast so you need to plan for things to stay as close as possible. The easiest solution to lack of manpower is to employ children, but I would rather not as they are more valuable for medics and research later on!

[JuX]

Id recommend starting with Childlabour if you want to make it easier on yourself. Id get gathering post up first to secure illness free worktime & retrieve only 1 steamcore directly from the pile for the walldrill you need soon as possible to boost economy and research at start.

If you can handle the discontent id recommend getting overcrowding law before going too deep to morale related laws, as you need to focus heat coverage on your houses rather then keeping them in livable conditions when the coldwave hits early game, as it keeps them alive, but increases likeliness of illness, but at that point each medical post can handle 10 patients each.

(Also you can avoid building houses from them at start to get a request to build houses for easy quest and even if you aren't able to build them in the first day to get the quest which has like 3 day timelimit, simply by activating generator the people won't freeze to death at the starter temperatures).

This is probably enough to get you started.

In terms of Purpose Laws, Faith is far superior line to through if you want to avoid deaths. As ORDER causes suicides and inmates can't receive medical attention.

[Kestas]

Well i managed to beat it. Due same random rng. But with heave death toll

[erneiz]

I'm trying this on hard as well, the last hard scenario I haven't done yet. Have been restarting many times, haven't succeeded yet. I took child labor and made sure hunters are also working during the day since there is so little workforce at the start. I have found that researching in any order other than Hunting Tools > Heaters > Steam Hubs > workshop upgrade 1 > wall drill will leave with too little heat , food, and wood to go on. Also kinda late in taking cemetery/body dumping law and half of my people are dead because of it, and I was banished. On another try, I found out I really can't afford bunkhouses, best to go for higher generator power instead and spam coal thumpers. Thumpers because I need all the adult to go hunting and other stuffs so the children collecting coal is really helpful. Maybe get the Shai Hulud Summoner and Worse than London along the way. I also only built two workshop and had 3 medical posts because there are just so many sick people. Also, surprisingly you can go on without steelworks for quite a while so leave researching that for later. You really need to beeline for techs in this hard mode and wrong research sequence means game over.

[erneiz]

Nope. Can't do it. It seems impossible to do this without people dying because of the frost and sickness. And then the lords seem to be idiots since I have my food stockpile full and yet they fail to get their meal. When my own sick is in the hundreds I can't imagine having to accept the 2nd group of lords as well.

[Kestas]

I beat it buy first rushing heaters>walldrill>2scouts>coalmine>thumpers getting generator power only then my tents would get cold and half of the time i just overlord generator. Wall drill and 2 scouts keeps alive till you have till lords. With lords i pick promises to build stuff so got small hope boost.But still lost around 50ppl or so

[JuX]

Originally posted by erneiz:

Nope. Can't do it. It seems impossible to do this without people dying because of the frost and sickness. And then the lords seem to be idiots since I have my food stockpile full and yet they fail to get their meal. When my own sick is in the hundreds I can't imagine having to accept the 2nd group of lords as well.

Well i just completed the refugee scenario on hardmode without casualties.The key component is rather living in chilling conditions so pick generator range over power, so you be focusing on healthcare instead, as overcrowding law let's you keep up with the illness and later on infirmaries are good and probably necessary in late game.

as always remember to pick faith purpose laws instead of order.

I can confirm that all scenarios can be played without casualties and every possible survivor is rescued.

[erneiz]

I don't see the advantage of extending generator range when I can use steam hubs for exactly that? That's just even more research in the already tight queue. And I don't see how focusing on generator range means you can focus on healthcare? I had 5 med houses with overcrowding, all full and still have over 100 people sick. I even used gathering posts so people don't gather all those crates in a freezing condition but even with that the number of sick people just kept rising. I even prioritized overcrowding over extended shift like I usually do. And more med house means fewer workshops since engineers are a scarce commodity.
In the first place, how exactly do you heat your houses without the generator power upgrade, especially when the cold just keep coming down rapidly? Putting tents in a heat zone is easy, but keping the heating in them is really difficult. I tried prioritizing bunkhouses once and I just could't manage to find the resource to upgrade everything in a timely manner.

[Kestas]

Originally posted by erneiz:

I don't see the advantage of extending generator range when I can use steam hubs for exactly that? That's just even more research in the already tight queue. And I don't see how focusing on generator range means you can focus on healthcare? I had 5 med houses with overcrowding, all full and still have over 100 people sick. I even used gathering posts so people don't gather all those crates in a freezing condition but even with that the number of sick people just kept rising. I even prioritized overcrowding over extended shift like I usually do. And more med house means fewer workshops since engineers are a scarce commodity.
In the first place, how exactly do you heat your houses without the generator power upgrade, especially when the cold just keep coming down rapidly? Putting tents in a heat zone is easy, but keping the heating in them is really difficult. I tried prioritizing bunkhouses once and I just could't manage to find the resource to upgrade everything in a timely manner.

Dont forget about overload its helps abit here. And scouts are very important here. And bit rng at play here too. If you get lucky your closed outpost place gone be coal you get pick there decent amount of coal wich save you same work force on coal on first days.

[erneiz]

Problem is I have trouble even geting to tier 3 research. And I haven't even researched that many tech. I probably only had around 9-10 techs when the cold wave was already getting really severe. All my tents were cold even with over drive. Resources and manpower are just too scarce, and all my engineers are sucked to all those med posts. And even then a few people died every other hour which were not helping.

[JuX]

Originally posted by erneiz:

I don't see the advantage of extending generator range when I can use steam hubs for exactly that? That's just even more research in the already tight queue. And I don't see how focusing on generator range means you can focus on healthcare? I had 5 med houses with overcrowding, all full and still have over 100 people sick. I even used gathering posts so people don't gather all those crates in a freezing condition but even with that the number of sick people just kept rising. I even prioritized overcrowding over extended shift like I usually do. And more med house means fewer workshops since engineers are a scarce commodity.
In the first place, how exactly do you heat your houses without the generator power upgrade, especially when the cold just keep coming down rapidly? Putting tents in a heat zone is easy, but keping the heating in them is really difficult. I tried prioritizing bunkhouses once and I just could't manage to find the resource to upgrade everything in a timely manner.

Steamhubs are ineffective method of keeping citizens warm, as they cannot be upgraded to output anymore heat. They are primarily for warming up compact production areas, as using them for anything els is inefficient use of coal (Honestly it's rather obsolete, other then saving a seed vault).

For the 4 inner circles build nothing but housing for citizens and few medical posts (+temporary fighting arena). You recieve ton of housing areas by simply upgrading generator range and once colder weather approaches make sure you upgrade power so they won't get below chilling (Use overloading if can't do it in time).

Do not build tents beyond generator heatzone, as frozen housing means casualties and amputees. They will survive in homeless state within the generator area.

You don't even need to bother upgrading housing in refugee scenario, long as you keep up with generator technology.

As for healthcare, the overcrowding let's you survive early game fairly easily. You do not need bed for every single patient, but for the most of it yes, the illness status on a worker stay on for 24 hours once submited to treatment and you can see their release times within building patient listing. During desperate outbreaks you can just man a tent with 1 or 2 engineers just keep masses of sickpeople alive, while fully manned onces treat the epidemic quicker.

[Hatti]

Originally posted by JuX:

Steamhubs are ineffective method of keeping citizens warm, as they cannot be upgraded to output anymore heat. They are primarily for warming up compact production areas, as using them for anything els is inefficient use of coal (Honestly it's rather obsolete, other then saving a seed vault).

Steamhubs provide the same heat level as the generator itself! Their heatlevel will upgrade with the heatlevel of the generator