Was it worth it? You've crossed the line and order was abused.

[UNSCONI]

So, at the end of the world, they only got to work 10 hours a day to keep themselves alive, and productive. Their leader, which is me, made sure their children can stay in shelters, instead of mineshafts, and provided them proper housing, food and heat.

At -40 celcius I kept my people away from savaging operations to keep them from sickness, and I talked the London guys into stay rather than forcing them. I built graveyards so that the people could honor the dead, to know that their humanity hasn't lost yet. To remember the 45 heros, I ordered to go down to mineshafts during the blizzard so that 600 more can live.

I built robots to work at factories so that my people could stay at home away from the cold, clinics that could house hundreds so that no one died to sickness during the blizzard.

Was it worth it? Rights and humanitarian talks are saved for peaceful eras, this is one agenda that really served the game wrong.

Let me remind you that how many American men enrolled voluntarly to enlist during World War II and American women who worked at factories three shifts a day to support the military. How the sacrafice of two atomic bombs ended the war without costing another million lifes. When history calls upon, the people, and their leader, has a lot greater determination. They don't complain about working overtime, they complain why they aren't working hard enough. This is a great great disrespect to our forefathers, for they have shown courage beyond our imagination.

[Enceladus]

You did what you had to do to ensure the city survived. In the face of total global annihilation, it was the right thing to do.

[Malagon]

Whatever it takes to ensure the survival and safety of all my people, even if some have to die to save the many.

[Heretek1914]

Was it worth it? To you, apparently, and that's what the game was asking. Be way when you gaze into the abyss, for the abyss stares back.

[Azov]

In spite of the overly PC text at the end when devs lecture you about corssing the lines, yes it was worth it.

[Azov]

Originally posted by Heretek:

Was it worth it? To you, apparently, and that's what the game was asking. Be way when you gaze into the abyss, for the abyss stares back.

At least you are alive to gaze at it

[LunaticDelusion]

The overall message that the game is trying to deliver is very weak.Perhaps it's because you don't really have a choice and you'll have to choose either order or faith and "cross the line",or perhaps because it's almost the end of the humankind as we know it,but the game blames you that your people had to eat soup..oh well..
This War of Mine did it better.

[UNSCONI]

Originally posted by LunaticDelusion:

The overall message that the game is trying to deliver is very weak.Perhaps it's because you don't really have a choice and you'll have to choose either order or faith and "cross the line",or perhaps because it's almost the end of the humankind as we know it,but the game blames you that your people had to eat soup..oh well..
This War of Mine did it better.

Survival is sin, it's like the game has given me any other option except order or faith. I did not chose to sign the law of "the New Order", but it blames me for dictatorship for catching thieves. Hello? I don't even have death sentence executed.

[[U.S.M.]HunkUmbrella]

Originally posted by LunaticDelusion:

The overall message that the game is trying to deliver is very weak.Perhaps it's because you don't really have a choice and you'll have to choose either order or faith and "cross the line",or perhaps because it's almost the end of the humankind as we know it,but the game blames you that your people had to eat soup..oh well..
This War of Mine did it better.

Lol you can just not complete all books of all completely and you will not cross the line, the main thing is not to upgrade the most radical laws. Then the ending will be smooth like a charm.

[silver ameba]

I saved 679 (5 of those were robots though, dunno why the games counts them), only 6 ppl died and noone was even gravely ill at the end. I went for all nice things: didn't mess with food, went for ceremonial burials, child shelters, did not enact any of 'bad' laws in Order branch including the last one. And I got the same 'was it worth it' BS. Meh.

[HagravenGaming]

Yeah i'm not 100% sold on how the game handles the ending text. It berated me for enacting the soup law even though i never once fed it to anyone, i just wanted to get the public house law that was beyond it. The only potentially harmful thing i did was use extended shifts and i did send the guys down to die in the mine at the end (altho when i got to the very end i realized i had enough stockpiled that i wouldn't have needed to) I did build a prison and a propaganda center, but i did not go further down the order tree, or use forceful persuasion. i gave in to every citizen demand, from long-shifters wanting 3 days of normal shifts, to giving the guy food to look for his daughter, to letting people stop work when the end came. IMO i was pretty damn benevolent, i just expected people to work their hardest and not stir up ♥♥♥♥ which is not outrageous for the situation. But I gave them moonshine, protected their children, found EVERY batch of survivors and brought them into the city, cured all the masses of sick that came before the storm, never used triage, kept my one (1) amputee in a care house, built a cemetery with ceremonial burial, etc etc. And now the game is telling me I crossed the line? Where exactly did I cross it? I kept over 600 people alive with nothing worse than patrols, humane correction, longer shifts for some, and distributing pieces of paper. All things that exist in our current society anyway. Game, get your ♥♥♥♥ straight.

[Azov]

Originally posted by literallybyronic:

Yeah i'm not 100% sold on how the game handles the ending text. It berated me for enacting the soup law even though i never once fed it to anyone, i just wanted to get the public house law that was beyond it. The only potentially harmful thing i did was use extended shifts and i did send the guys down to die in the mine at the end (altho when i got to the very end i realized i had enough stockpiled that i wouldn't have needed to) I did build a prison and a propaganda center, but i did not go further down the order tree, or use forceful persuasion. i gave in to every citizen demand, from long-shifters wanting 3 days of normal shifts, to giving the guy food to look for his daughter, to letting people stop work when the end came. IMO i was pretty damn benevolent, i just expected people to work their hardest and not stir up ♥♥♥♥ which is not outrageous for the situation. But I gave them moonshine, protected their children, found EVERY batch of survivors and brought them into the city, cured all the masses of sick that came before the storm, never used triage, kept my one (1) amputee in a care house, built a cemetery with ceremonial burial, etc etc. And now the game is telling me I crossed the line? Where exactly did I cross it? I kept over 600 people alive with nothing worse than patrols, humane correction, longer shifts for some, and distributing pieces of paper. All things that exist in our current society anyway. Game, get your ♥♥♥♥ straight.

fighting arena precedes public house, not soup

[Voidflakes]

Originally posted by silver ameba:

I saved 679 (5 of those were robots though, dunno why the games counts them), only 6 ppl died and noone was even gravely ill at the end. I went for all nice things: didn't mess with food, went for ceremonial burials, child shelters, did not enact any of 'bad' laws in Order branch including the last one. And I got the same 'was it worth it' BS. Meh.

Regarding the Order branch of laws, you must complete the game without enacting either of the laws that come BEFORE 'The New Order' - Forceful Persuasion and Pledge Of Loyalty - in order to avoid the "Was it worth it?" message. You can enact laws for Agitator, Prison, and Propaganda Centre without crossing the line. At least, that's what worked for me :) I never used extended shifts either, that might help too.

The same goes for the Faith branch, although I'm not certain which laws you shouldn't pass for it - either Public Penance or Protector Of The Truth, and perhaps Righteous Denunciation? Those are the laws that I guess would be deemed as 'too severe'.

[HagravenGaming]

Hm, ok, I think I did do pledge of loyalty in the end. I just wish it was a bit more dynamic of a result. I made by and large benevolent choices, and for the ending result to boil down to just a couple of choices while disregarding the rest is kinda lame. I feel like it should factor in survival rate, rescue rate, average hope/discontent levels, plot point decisions, etc, not just be purely based on what laws you did or didn't pass, regardless of how much if at all you even used the law's features.

still a great game though. the ending is so intense, for a non combat city builder to have me on the edge of my seat like that is something special.

[kuaikukia]

After having harsh survive in the end, I don't know it was worth it. But all I know the game is worth it.

[Voidflakes]

Originally posted by literallybyronic:

Hm, ok, I think I did do pledge of loyalty in the end. I just wish it was a bit more dynamic of a result. I made by and large benevolent choices, and for the ending result to boil down to just a couple of choices while disregarding the rest is kinda lame. I feel like it should factor in survival rate, rescue rate, average hope/discontent levels, plot point decisions, etc, not just be purely based on what laws you did or didn't pass, regardless of how much if at all you even used the law's features.

still a great game though. the ending is so intense, for a non combat city builder to have me on the edge of my seat like that is something special.

Yeah, I kinda felt the same after my first playthrough. I thought the 'New Order' policy was a little *too* extreme so didn't enact it Lol Not sure how I managed it, but I got the achievement for having nobody die along with the one for 650+ people, plus a whole bunch of other 'nice guy' achievements (Lost Souls, Compassionate, Bad At Politics, Promised Land, etc) and figured I must've done pretty well. But after seeing some of the scripted events for those later laws in the Order tree and putting some consideration into how real people would have reacted to them, I figured they might have soured peoples' perspective of my leadership. Tried again the 2nd time around without enacting those laws and sure enough, I got the message that "I don't think we crossed the line". Woooo!

But yeah, I do agree that on the whole I did what was absolutely necessary to survive AND keep the peace, and my city managed both. So it would've been nice to receive a pat on the back for all those things I managed to do without anyone getting killed or treated particularly harshly. Didn't even force anyone to eat soup! Sure, a few ruffians had to pledge their allegiance, but in the end they became productive members of society and were no longer causing trouble :p

Totally with you on your last point, the end-game is ridiculously intense and really pushes on your resource/research management in those final days. Absolutely loved it!