best strategic build

[Él Cáminó]

what’s the best strategy to put buildings in order to be more efficient?

[amordron]

There are so many diffrent ways to answer that you need to be more specific with the question.

What map/scenario are you playing.

Do you have a specific goal eg a no deaths game will have a different effective way than a no house game. A game aimed for a perfect dreadknoght in winterhome will care about different things than a just win build for winterhome.

Are you wanting to play faith or order both have there perks one is not strictly better than the other but I recommended faith for quite a number of reason mainly its reactive vs proactive so you don't need to be a perfect at seeing the future while it has house of healing which is quite op when paired with child labor. Even without child labor its quite strong.




But to answer using endless non rifts map the most basic answer is: (and even than this is not the most efficient but a good build that can clear the highest diffs quite easy as there is no real most efficient build its based on your goals as said)

Laws:

24 hour (use on piles NOT anywhere else to prevent death as no snowpit for awhile) -> extended -> soup (place the cookhouse on the last hour of the 2nd day than staff it the moment the workday ends with 1 person to NOT cook any before the law is signed but not lose raw food) -> child labor -> radicial (sustain life is fine also as you should not need either as wont get graillly wounded if playing right even on extreme, radical helps you easy deal with 1-2 if you get some bad luck thou) -> overcrowding (extra rations is fine also if you remember to use I just pref overcowding as during storms don't want to use extra food and with this build people leave the house of healing in 8-12 hours late game anyways) -> faith house of prayor -> shrine -> house of healing -> snow pit (the storm willl hit now on extreme) -> 20% better healing (tyou will have this up right when the sick start comming)

You will have to move snowpit early if you allow a death so don't otherwise house of healing is delayed and that means more likly to get gravilly wounded during storm and more likly to snowball.

Thumper + hothouse for food + coal.

Both work with child labor while hothouse is more labor effective per core than coal mines (till advanced than basically equal) giving you a large early game lead. Use 2 hothouses from the 3 steam cores. You will need to rush to the hothouse to get before you need more raw food. I place one hunters hut end of day 2 to send 15 hunters out that night to start bringing in a bit a single one will tie you over on extreme till you run out of food if rushing directly there need two to get wall drill first which sometimes is worth.

Wall drill

Always place one with the third core



Don't bother with insulation or % boost tech till later game get the core buildings and unlock the next tree asap same goes with autos. Its better to have better buildings and use your cores there than on autos as there only 60% as good as workers till later game when you can tech on the and esp in extreme you need to get your temp up first. Once you have temp levels needed for given storms you can work on autos esp once you have the extra cores for them.

Don't get two paths for resource gain eg hothouse AND hunter pick one. Unless you get a hazard vs them than at that time tech the other this means you need to make sure to always have extra coal and food after a storm to give time for the swap. You don't want to waste tech time on a building you don't need vs getting deeper in the tree.

NEVER use gen range. You should not need more than 6 steam hubs till your pop is greater than 250. A effective build can use 6 (2 for houseing 4 for work) and be completely fine you can get away with less even this is the high side number. This allows you to mainly not use heaters and more effective steam hubs by keeping multi building near and only use heaters when needed.


Beyond that you need to get specific with your question as build order and placements change based on map.

[Él Cáminó]

Originally posted by amordron:

There are so many diffrent ways to answer that you need to be more specific with the question.

What map/scenario are you playing.

Do you have a specific goal eg a no deaths game will have a different effective way than a no house game. A game aimed for a perfect dreadknoght in winterhome will care about different things than a just win build for winterhome.

Are you wanting to play faith or order both have there perks one is not strictly better than the other but I recommended faith for quite a number of reason mainly its reactive vs proactive so you don't need to be a perfect at seeing the future while it has house of healing which is quite op when paired with child labor. Even without child labor its quite strong.




But to answer using endless non rifts map the most basic answer is: (and even than this is not the most efficient but a good build that can clear the highest diffs quite easy as there is no real most efficient build its based on your goals as said)

Laws:

24 hour (use on piles NOT anywhere else to prevent death as no snowpit for awhile) -> extended -> soup (place the cookhouse on the last hour of the 2nd day than staff it the moment the workday ends with 1 person to NOT cook any before the law is signed but not lose raw food) -> child labor -> radicial (sustain life is fine also as you should not need either as wont get graillly wounded if playing right even on extreme, radical helps you easy deal with 1-2 if you get some bad luck thou) -> overcrowding (extra rations is fine also if you remember to use I just pref overcowding as during storms don't want to use extra food and with this build people leave the house of healing in 8-12 hours late game anyways) -> faith house of prayor -> shrine -> house of healing -> snow pit (the storm willl hit now on extreme) -> 20% better healing (tyou will have this up right when the sick start comming)

You will have to move snowpit early if you allow a death so don't otherwise house of healing is delayed and that means more likly to get gravilly wounded during storm and more likly to snowball.

Thumper + hothouse for food + coal.

Both work with child labor while hothouse is more labor effective per core than coal mines (till advanced than basically equal) giving you a large early game lead. Use 2 hothouses from the 3 steam cores. You will need to rush to the hothouse to get before you need more raw food. I place one hunters hut end of day 2 to send 15 hunters out that night to start bringing in a bit a single one will tie you over on extreme till you run out of food if rushing directly there need two to get wall drill first which sometimes is worth.

Wall drill

Always place one with the third core



Don't bother with insulation or % boost tech till later game get the core buildings and unlock the next tree asap same goes with autos. Its better to have better buildings and use your cores there than on autos as there only 60% as good as workers till later game when you can tech on the and esp in extreme you need to get your temp up first. Once you have temp levels needed for given storms you can work on autos esp once you have the extra cores for them.

Don't get two paths for resource gain eg hothouse AND hunter pick one. Unless you get a hazard vs them than at that time tech the other this means you need to make sure to always have extra coal and food after a storm to give time for the swap. You don't want to waste tech time on a building you don't need vs getting deeper in the tree.

NEVER use gen range. You should not need more than 6 steam hubs till your pop is greater than 250. A effective build can use 6 (2 for houseing 4 for work) and be completely fine you can get away with less even this is the high side number. This allows you to mainly not use heaters and more effective steam hubs by keeping multi building near and only use heaters when needed.


Beyond that you need to get specific with your question as build order and placements change based on map.

that’s alot of info to sink and thank you for your advice. well i’m playing on the maint story mode and i cant seem get quite far after day 32 i’m new to the game btw and i choose the faith one rather the order

[amordron]

If playing a new home than I suggest basically the above you won’t be able to go for house of healing as early thou so grab snow pot before it than head to fight arena and moonshine to counter soups loss.

Otherwise what is killing you on day 32 speficilly and can address that if you post screens I can give advice to make your next runs easier by addressing mess ups vs posting a long thing with all the answers as even there I avoided mentioning a tech order to just follow as tech you want to be flexible with vs following a build someone listed. Thou it works for the main maps endless esp. has random temps to a degree so set flexibility is needed and learning your own way from the start is nice.


A trick thou that will help you make two workshops and two med posts early even with only 15 eng. you can move 5 eng into med overnight than back for days to boost med and tech at the same time. Always just leave 1 eng in a mad post to not kick the sick out so 1 in one 4 in the other durring the day 5 in each at night. If less than 5 sick put all in one thou.

Don’t go to winterholm with a scout till day 14 and a half to get extra tile for another law and a larger head start. This will let you get all the laws mentioned till moonshine and focus entirely on faith after to deal with londoneers. Keep extended on workshops always the rest you can swap on and off to meet needs based on discontent esp when londoneers are there you want it low. Thou there are tricks to keep it high while dealing with them but won’t mention that unless you ask as kinda a spoiler.

[Él Cáminó]

Originally posted by amordron:

If playing a new home than I suggest basically the above you won’t be able to go for house of healing as early thou so grab snow pot before it than head to fight arena and moonshine to counter soups loss.

Otherwise what is killing you on day 32 speficilly and can address that if you post screens I can give advice to make your next runs easier by addressing mess ups vs posting a long thing with all the answers as even there I avoided mentioning a tech order to just follow as tech you want to be flexible with vs following a build someone listed. Thou it works for the main maps endless esp. has random temps to a degree so set flexibility is needed and learning your own way from the start is nice.


A trick thou that will help you make two workshops and two med posts early even with only 15 eng. you can move 5 eng into med overnight than back for days to boost med and tech at the same time. Always just leave 1 eng in a mad post to not kick the sick out so 1 in one 4 in the other durring the day 5 in each at night. If less than 5 sick put all in one thou.

Don’t go to winterholm with a scout till day 14 and a half to get extra tile for another law and a larger head start. This will let you get all the laws mentioned till moonshine and focus entirely on faith after to deal with londoneers. Keep extended on workshops always the rest you can swap on and off to meet needs based on discontent esp when londoneers are there you want it low. Thou there are tricks to keep it high while dealing with them but won’t mention that unless you ask as kinda a spoiler.

i did what you told me thanks for the tip now i’m almost at day 50 but there’s a storm now and all of my houses are cold even there’s a steam hub and heater on it what do i do?

[Darkness]

Originally posted by HELSI...:

i’m almost at day 50 but there’s a storm now and all of my houses are cold even there’s a steam hub and heater on it what do i do?

Houses + Insulation and generator power maxed, if you wan't to be really sure in severe storms also have all overdrive settings researched. That should give you comfortable, livable or chilly, dependent on the severity of the storm.

[Él Cáminó]

Originally posted by Flanker:

Originally posted by HELSI...:

i’m almost at day 50 but there’s a storm now and all of my houses are cold even there’s a steam hub and heater on it what do i do?

Houses + Insulation and generator power maxed, if you wan't to be really sure in severe storms also have all overdrive settings researched. That should give you comfortable, livable or chilly, dependent on the severity of the storm.

ok noted btw how do you upgrade the coal wood and steel capacity?

[Darkness]

Originally posted by HELSI...:

btw how do you upgrade the coal wood and steel capacity?

How do you mean - Overall gathering / mining capacity or storage capacity?

[amordron]

As mentioned above you want everything at house level with house insulation get your gen to max heating. Once you have your t5 tech and key buildings you want getting insulation for everything starting with houses than med followed by resources to be ready for the storm is fine. Pre that as mentioned above not ideal vs more effective buildings.

As you mentioned you used my tips I’ll take that your using coal thumpers as such you don’t need to worry about the coal mine failing event as a bonus. I suggest having 3 steam thumpers with 4 post each this will maintain the avg base will need a fourth to put heaters everywhere which is nice do if you can. If using mines makes sure to have autos for the mines.

To get more cap on steel and wood as well as coal build resource depots and pick that resource. This also works for food.

You will have a mission to max overdrive also which helps.

You want to save your overdrive for -150 and one steam core only need one. As soon as minus 150 hits turn on the overdrive and DONT shut it down when it hits 100 assuming you have not done this before that game you can pay a steam core to gain another 30-40 percent enough to bring you to the end of the storm.


Assuming you are playing on easy or up to hard should be no issue getting all your tech on a new home it’s a long missions. Make sure you are not just using a single workshop like many new players do you want 3 ASAP as the first 3 give a significantly larger tech boost. After that it’s smaller at 15 percent for the 4th and 10 for all after to the base so not much but still worth. Up to a max of 15. Make sure two have a shrine for the workshops once you can there the best building to boost. A tech lead is always the most important part of the game. Based on my tips your using faith so house of healing. One of the best and most op parts of that skill is using children vs eng for healthcare at no loss. This free eng for more workshops and faster tech. Outside of workshops or med ebg really should do nothing else.

Also a note give the kids double rations it will make there injury rate the same as adults in each workplace a large boost to productivity well worth the food.


If you can get level 3 heaters on top of the max overdrive and max gen the game asks you to get for the storm. This lets you keep your workplaces working even on the -120 cold snap.

Otherwise make about 10 house of healing. That allows you to keep a significant amount of your pop I’ll and alive till the end of the game at that point don’t need to treat only keep alive so even a single worker is fine thou 3 is better i norm just fill thou. Keep Heater on these. You will get sick at -120 and -150 as can’t use the overdrive on -120 if you do the above trick. So the house of healing counters the sick you do get.

[snuggleform]

Also a note give the kids double rations it will make there injury rate the same as adults in each workplace a large boost to productivity well worth the food.

What is the source for this information? What is the normal injury rate for kids vs adults? How do you know children are normally injured more than adults? What do you even mean by injured, do you mean illness having to go to the medical tent?

[amordron]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

Also a note give the kids double rations it will make there injury rate the same as adults in each workplace a large boost to productivity well worth the food.

What is the source for this information? What is the normal injury rate for kids vs adults? How do you know children are normally injured more than adults? What do you even mean by injured, do you mean illness having to go to the medical tent?

Its right from the wiki and directly told to you in the game, just like giving rations per 24 hour shift removes the chance to kill someone when using 24 hour shifts (only offered as a event after the first death).

https://frostpunk.gamepedia.com/Child_Labour_-_Safe_Jobs_(Law)

You will see the notice part that is directly shown in the game on the tooltip don't got the screen from in game but you can easy see it there.

The reduced injury rate is also written right in the game I do got a screen of that.

https://gamepedia.cursecdn.com/frostpunk_gamepedia_en/5/55/Child_Labour_-_Double_rations_for_kids.png?version=b9191a9bb65bf82a3266ffbba85211fd

Adults will never get injured in "safe" work places. Children will. This is quite easy to know as the game tells you so and the even asking to give kids double rations comes after the first kid gets injured. Same is true with non safe work places where adults have a chance to get injured kids have a chance to get killed. Double rations removes there death chance (also makes it a vary easy way to prove double rations dose something as will never have a dead kid in unsafe work places after), in unsafe work places after doubling kids will get the same injury rate as adults.

The injury rate for kids I don't got the exact number as always double there rations. Its approx 15% as per the wiki thou in safe jobs. Adults never get injured in safe work. So the 15% "extra" rations produced using kids in 1 hothouse and not getting and injured more than make up the cost of even doubling the rations of 16 kids more than worth it. Esp as using endless as an example likely have 2 hothouses so 32 kids countered but less than 32 kids of the start. Not including the extra resources from where the other kids are working.

Injured workers are treated as sick and need to go to the med tent they are not illness but show under the same symbol on the UI. Illness is people that are sick as a result of the cold. You can see this eg after the injured via a auto event you will gain one more sick on the ui icon even no you did not gain a sick person only a injured person. This is also the reason you see the icon gain "ill" people even when you have every place in red heat level. This is again explained in game if you bother to read the tutorials in the tips pages.

There are other effects during the child labor event arc that can happen such as losing 50% production of a workplace for a day if you let one get killed and don't address it.

https://frostpunk.gamepedia.com/Child_Labour_(Arc)

You will find just reading the info given to you in game will give you a ton of advantages as most of that is directly shown in game not hidden thou some is only seen if you follow events to a point to unlock them.

[snuggleform]

Neither the wiki nor the screensoht you provided is evidence of anything; you are merely quoting the text in the game. Just because the text in the game SUGGESTS that something isn't proof.

I already know that the food for 24 hours shifts is indeed relevant beacuse I have tested it for myself and without the food they do die ,however I have never seen the effects of doubling the food for kids.

In particular your statement here is bothersome

[/quote]Adults will never get injured in "safe" work places. Children will.[/quote]

But what is the definition of an "injury" and how do you know when a child is "injured?" When a child is "injured" is it a one time event or is it something that just happens without announcement? What auto event are you referring to that gives you an ill child? The child asking for a day off is not an injury, nor is the mother asking for a day off, nor is the child crushed by the machine, I see no events in the wiki you listed that give an injured child nor do I remember such a thing. The child geting crushed is a dead or alive event no injury and it only happens once.

You then claim the wiki suggets 15% "injury rate" can I see the source for that please? It is nowhere in the links you provided earlier that mentions any approximation nor definition for an "injury." nor this magical fifteen percent.

That final wiki link you gave about the child injury events is already informatoin copmletely known to me and shows absolutely nothing. Those are SCRIPTED events that always happen; for example the child asking for a day off ,mother asking, those happen before you even get a chance to get double rations. I see zero information regarding "injuries." that "prevented" by doing double rations.

I actually see no source of your claims of "injuries", all I see are assertions and guesses from quoting the text in the game.

This is pretty bothersome because you are the third or fourth person who has claimed something weird about safe places and injuries but I never ever saw any evidence anywhere of this.

I have bothered to read the turotial when I was learning the game but I don't remember anything about injuries being a recurring event. I do acknowledge sometimes when you have red heat everywhere people still get injured a bit however I'm pretty sure it's just due to me having them construct things outside the heat zones.

After reviewing your so-called evidence I'm left puzzled where you make up things like 15% and none of the things you showed actually shows an injury per se, nor do I see an actual study of injury rates with/without double food rations anywhere.

edit: I went ahead and wasted my time rereading all the tutorial information - there is absolutely nothing to back up your claims about injuries there whatsoever. The only vaguely related thing it mentions that you can get amputees from "work related accidents" but that is not the question here at all; I am quite confidence I understand those events like the automatons going too fast for example. Can you back up your claims more substantively with actual evidence please? I've reviewed the "evidence" you've provided it's lacking.

[amordron]

You can take the info as you wabt I don’t care to force feed someone. This thread is to help the op and he can take the info as he wants, evidence and easy ways to test what i claim have already been given. The reason quite a few people know it works that way is since it dose. The areas I showed are quite strong evidence of it and I even told you how to test it if you don’t believe it.

It is not up to me to force feed you if you don’t want to believe something works how the game tells you it works while being easy to test for yourself to boot thats on you.

Don’t expect people to force feed you anything I have backed up my statements. I don’t give a crap if you believe it or not your only hurting yourself it dose not bother me or anyone else for that matter if you don’t believe something and are to lazy to test for yourself.

I mentioned not only a way to prove it stops deaths via child labor all jobs via the fact deaths stop rather hard to miss and how to prove the injury rate goes down as it’s directly stated in game via no longer getting injured children shown via the same icon as sick people as without double rations you will have “sick” kids from injury’s when all heat levels are red you won’t with double. You get injury’s regardless of heat level while sick are a direct result of heat level. Other than frostbite injury’s that are a direct result of extreme cold.

If your to dense to be able to confirm it yourself that is not my problem.

[snuggleform]

You didn't back up your statements at all. Let me repeat my questions

1) where is the magical 15% you quoted that supposedly comes from the wiki? I read the links you provided and it makes no mention of this 15%

2) you claimed blindly that in the tutorial it mentions injuries; I reread them and found no evidence of such.

Are you just making stuff up? You realize you do harm to the OP by spreading lies?

I never double the rations because it causes a severe drain in food (winterhome is an excellent example where it sends you into a death spiral, but not only that even new home you'll notice your food draining super fast if you double the child food rations) and I never saw any reduction in illness based on it.

[amordron]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

You didn't back up your statements at all. Let me repeat my questions

1) where is the magical 15% you quoted that supposedly comes from the wiki? I read the links you provided and it makes no mention of this 15%

2) you claimed blindly that in the tutorial it mentions injuries; I reread them and found no evidence of such.

Are you just making stuff up?

I have backed up my statements and even explained to you how to test them for yourself if you want to. The fact you are to dense to do so speaks wonders about yourself. The tutorial dose mention injuries exactly how I learned about them as a new player and confirmed that myself before mentioning it.

At this point you are only detailing another’s thread without reason so not going to keep answering you past here if you have a question about the mechanics of the game make your own thread don’t derail someone else’s.

As said you not believing means jack to me. This thread is about helping the op. If he wants more info will go into it for him. I have no need or plan to further derail his thread. Nor do I have any need nor want to debate with someone that is to lazy to bother to look into something for themselves. As mentioned before it’s quite easy to test exactly if double rations has an effect or not.

I have not harmed the op at all and in fact by his own testament have been helped via my tips. Coming from someone that has done all the diffs and modes as “perfect” wins as far as there endings goes I can say for a fact my advice works and is quite helpful to players.

With that I’m out.

[Julian]

Originally posted by snuggleform:

You didn't back up your statements at all. Let me repeat my questions

1) where is the magical 15% you quoted that supposedly comes from the wiki? I read the links you provided and it makes no mention of this 15%

2) you claimed blindly that in the tutorial it mentions injuries; I reread them and found no evidence of such.

Are you just making stuff up? You realize you do harm to the OP by spreading lies?

I never double the rations because it causes a severe drain in food (winterhome is an excellent example where it sends you into a death spiral, but not only that even new home you'll notice your food draining super fast if you double the child food rations) and I never saw any reduction in illness based on it.

Yeah i never double rations, if you provide good heating and don't have a lack of food they dont get injured much at all.