Organic Fertilizer is just bad

[Carlos]

I tested it - it gives you 0,9 raw food per hour in an upgraded industrial hothouse. For ONE shift. And it costs THREE bodies. Plus it doesn't seem to stack with the Foreman if you press the fertilizer first and the foreman second (maybe it's just a bug though).

In general all the laws dealing with death like Ceremonial Funerals or Triage are bad, useless and nonsensical because:

- If you're playing on easier difficulties your people don't die so you don't need any of those laws
- And on higher difficulties if your people start dying in any significant numbers you're better off just restarting because it's a sign there's something wrong with your base and you're screwed long-term anyway. I've just finished the Endurance/Extreme Ultramarathon achievement and I just don't see how you can get through the first two storms with more than one or two deaths. And if you do survive it means your base is so solid you'll never have any problems ever again, let alone with people dying.

[Aturchomicz]

Originally posted by Carlos77:

I tested it - it gives you 0,9 raw food per hour in an upgraded industrial hothouse. And it costs THREE bodies. Plus it doesn't seem to stack with the Foreman if you press the fertilizer first and the foreman second (maybe it's just a bug though).

In general all the laws dealing with death like Ceremonial Funerals or Triage are bad, useless and nonsensical because:

- If you're playing on easier difficulties your people don't die so you don't need any of those laws
- And on higher difficulties if your people start dying in any significant numbers you're better off just restarting because it's a sign there's something wrong with your base and you're screwed long-term anyway. I've just finished the Endurance/Extreme Ultramarathon achievement and I just don't see how you can get through the first two storms with more than one or two deaths. And if you do survive it means your base is so solid you'll never have any problems ever again.

But but organ transplant in house of healing run by children is so op

[Carlos]

I suppose utilizing dead bodies COULD be useful if it was geared towards the very early-game, as a desperate measure. For example on Refugees Survivor there's a chance you don't find the early rations with your scouts. Instead of restarting you could pass a cannibalism law that would allow you to instantly turn one dead body into, say, 20 raw food. I can see people using that.

[Carlos]

Originally posted by Aturchomicz:

But but organ transplant in house of healing run by children is so op

Afaik it doesn't need any dead bodies. It works without corpses. But yeah that 20% faster healing is a must have on hither difficulties.

[Aturchomicz]

Originally posted by Carlos77:

I suppose utilizing dead bodies COULD be useful if it was geared towards the very early-game, as a desperate measure. For example on Refugees Survivor there's a chance you don't find the early rations with your scouts. Instead of restarting you could pass a cannibalism law that would allow you to instantly turn one dead body into, say, 20 raw food. I can see people using that.

It takes a whole side quest to unlock the canibalism law though

[amordron]

No one ever said it’s a good law and really why should it be human corpses don’t make good fertilizer. Just like the dueling law is prob the worst law out there but non the less it’s there and has a logical place.

It’s been looked into as an alternative to cremation in the real world and when it was all said and done the negatives out weigh the pros. you can’t just toss a human in a ditch and grow stuff out of you where to nitrogen rich for plants when decomposing yes it’s better than nothing but overall it’s quite a bad forum of conpost so the law should not be good. The reason the law is there is to see if people will take when in need not to be strong. Frost punk is a game of mortality and realism where possible. Having a bad choice give better results than your likly to see in the real world dosent make sense for the game.

To futher that transfer of disease is quite high with human compost and the cost to do it it rather high with having to use sawdust or some other carbon with it to counter the nitrogen to a point to allow plants to grow at even a possible rate. In fact in many tests the soil from human remains was WORSE than soil made with compost from human crap witch in all honesty is prob what is already being used in frost punk as a fertilizer as it’s in surplus and low on plants and other alternatives to give you a nice thought to go out on. So if anything the law shouldent do much as human compost is just not good.

[Carlos]

Originally posted by amordron:

The reason the law is there is to see if people will take when in need not to be strong.

You can always justify bad design by saying it was meant that way because of XY. Whatever, it remains bad design.

As I said, it could be a very interesting law if it was geared toward obtaining food in the early game. Let's say you fail to rush scouts and find some food - how about letting someone die during the emergency shift and turn him into 20 raw food? I can see people using that.

[amordron]

Originally posted by Carlos77:

Originally posted by amordron:

The reason the law is there is to see if people will take when in need not to be strong.

You can always justify bad design by saying it was meant that way because of XY. Whatever, it remains bad design.

As I said, it could be a very interesting law if it was geared toward obtaining food in the early game. Let's say you fail to rush scouts and find some food - how about letting someone die during the emergency shift and turn him into 20 raw food? I can see people using that.

Its not bad design thou. As said people are a bad fertilizer in real life. Making them good fertilizer in the game just because you want it to be is not good design. Making it match your source material the real world is. Esp when the game is trying to maintain realism.

Yes directly eating the person is more effective to get food than trying to grow plants out of them but thats not what the law is doing and would have quite a bit more moral ramifications if found out. Yes organic fert has its own moral ramifications but if people find out your grinding people up into meat paste and feeding them that it would be so much worse.

Adding that as a suggestion for another law is not a bad idea. There is already a law that lets you use corpses are raw food thou.That doesn't make organic fert bad design thou in fast its good design. Bad laws are NOT a bad thing. Just like bad cards (pack filler) in card games are not a bad thing. As said prime example dueling law prob the worst law in the game is still there and designed quite well even no people don't use as its weak vs the cons are to high.


You have not given one reason why org fert is "bad design" other than its weak witch is NOT a reason for bad design. As many things are designed to be that way so long as there is a reason for it that still is good design. Yes it being weak makes it weak witch it is, it dose not make for bad design.