Let's compare Winona and Wendy's skills.

[LuckyEye]

Wendy's skills are trash.

Let's throw Wendy in the trash...

[aeyo(s)]

Shouldn't skilltrees expand and give the players new progressions or routes to play the game? Not just be an excuse to rework and make a huff about buffing them with things they should have to begin with?

Walter for example is turning into a one-trick pony, where his whole thing about being a survivalist, monster enthusiast, mystery solver, and adventurous boy-scout is being swept under the rug for an extreme over-emphasis on using the slingshot, and using ONLY that alone. 16 perks on slingshots is absurd, and with his character potential, he seems like he should have at least 3 other perk categories for his other character elements, with those slingshot skills condensed into just a few perks.

It just feels like Klei was either at a loss for what to add, or they fundamentally lost the point of adding skills in the first place (to add flavor and variety to the way characters were played without flat-out buffing them) < Edit: I mean without flat-out ELIMINATING the character features that define them. Why would you make Wendy a character that doesn't even have to take care of her sister? It'd be like allowing Abigail to attack Wendy's sanity monsters, which would negate on of the character's only downsides.

[edit] Anyways, I know this spiel is pretty ramble-y, but comment #4, i suggested what I think is a real fix for the lunar affinity. I still think Wendy's skills are incomplete even with getting that fix I suggested, but I have confidence that Klei will figure out interesting things to place in her other skill categories beyond the affinities.

[edit 2] I think Walter tree is actually pretty good. Wortox seems decent too. I think I'm still not satisfied with Gestalt Abigail though. There is not enough player control in the lunar affinity, which is absolutely diabolically in that kind of design. Risk comes with all characters... good design would not bestow strength or ability in a way that invalidates or eliminates risk entirely.

[LuckyEye]

Other characters have specialized skills for convenience, attack power (equipment), and defense power (armor).

But Wendy demands labor, and Abigail's skill tree is full of garbage.

[laslax]

All skill trees are essentially buffs. Most of Wendy's skill tree makes Abigail better in some way, which seems to lean more into bosses with her Sisturn and Lunar affinity skills.

Winona is similar to Wurt, Webber, and Wickerbottom. They win with the things they create... not direct combat. And making those things takes time; more than whatever Wendy needs to do.

[aeyo(s)]

[Preamble 1] So, I think I know a way to make Wendy's gestalt-Abigail function. It seems to be a main consensus of players that they enjoy not having to worry about Abigail whilst fighting a super crazy enemy. The dodging, i-frames, and dash attacking are essentially what seem to help. However, the problem is that it lends so much autonomy to Abigail, that it undermines the very concept of Wendy's character because the player is encouraged by the game itself to allow Wendy's sister to handle almost everything on her own, all while incurring no risk to the player character the entire time.

[Preamble 2] There's too much of an upgrade between default Abigail and gestalt Abigail. It's plainly unfair that they added an extremely fun dash/dodge tool that gestalt-form can use, but no other variant is capable of. By being in gestalt-mode, Abigail completely and uncontrollably changes modes, becoming something very different from the other variants of Abigail in a way totally usurps any utility the other variants offered. Worse than that, you only get this fun and engaging side-ability mixed in with an already overpowered form of Abigail that plays the game for you. I don't know how to make my meaning come across correctly, but it just doesn't have to be this way. An engaging mode can be separated from the lunar/shadow affinities, and the behaviors of Abigail can remain consistent across all forms.

[Main] I think the solution, is that gestalt-form Abigail should not auto-dash attack, auto-kite, nor should her base attack be significantly different from normal and shadow Abigail. The dash attack should definitely be available to all variants of Abigail, but it should be something Wendy has to actively command Abigail to do, thus boosting player engagement and adding skill to her character by using this ability to keep Abigail alive via dodging and quickly repositioning. Lastly, getting a random full moon should not unlock Creative-mode for Abigail -- as in, it shouldn't dramatically evolve Abigail's power, just give her a bonus, and a new ability just as the shadow-side has. The behaviors of Abigail should be consistent across all forms is my core point, and Wendy should be able to have an active role and an engaging way to interact with Abigail all the time regardless of her form.

[Lunar Affinity] My proposition for the new ability would be a way to possess enemies just as the Ryftalts do for the lunar monstrosities. Except, not to actually pilot them, but to add a permanent vex bonus to Wendy's battle while becoming invulnerable and not contributing AoE to the fight. It adds a way that gestalt-Abigail can be kept safe while still heavily contributing to a fight with the vex bonus, and it's situational just as the shadow-side ability is. Gestalt-form Abigail will still emulate the other variants in normal combat, but players have another tool that they can use versus bosses when they just want to keep Abigail alive without sacrificing lots of damage.

[Yeah. Why isn't this already a thing?] Also, make whispering to Abigail not stop the player in place lol, nobody likes that, and if Wendy gets all these new commands, she should have a way to do this on the move.

[aeyo(s)]

I feel like my points weren't that clear, but I edited my main comment I guess.

[LuckyEye]

Wendy will continue to hunt spiders and bees.

Forever....

[LuckyEye]

Psychopath Wendy and disabled Abigail are very well drawn. Wendy becomes an incompetent person who spends her whole life catching bugs...

[Echsrick]

sigh....here too? there realy is no rest for the wicked minded that are wendy mains

[Jo]

I like it, because wendy will keep being the noob choice char, my judgment when i see someone playing with her will stay the same, OP for spiders, screams for help for everything else, yeah there will be exceptions but that's what they are, exceptions.

[aeyo(s)]

I feel like most of what I said in the early beta is invalid or outdated now. I liked the possession idea as opposed to uncontrollable gestalt-form Abigail concept, but I don't think I have anything critical to say about the other skilltrees because I think there's something very appreciable within them each.

Overall, if I were to hope they tune some of the characters in the future, it would be follower-based characters, not these ones. Wurt and Webber really deserve better follower controls. Wurt was really robbed in her skilltree because of that omission of ability.

[LuckyEye]

Depressed Wendy spends her life catching bugs.