VII versus VI

[Liverbest]

I'm a long time player of the Might and Magic Heroes series, and I still have fond memories of 2. Heroes VI was the last one I played, and I was wondering how this game stacks up now that quite a few problems have been patched out. Here are the things about Heroes VI I disliked the most, in descending order.

- Adventure map tactics and strategy were way oversimplified. Controlling resources on the adventure map was more about controlling objective points that included mines and other resource generators by region. You had to take over each resource generator individually in other Heroes games. The ability to change castles to your faction and buy all your army units from a single castle took so many tactical possibilities away from the game's potential. On the adventure map, the game was too much "King's Bounty" and not enough "Heroes of Might and Magic".

- The AI cheated the worst I had ever seen on this kind of game. If you wipe out the enemy hero and wait a week or two, the AI player gets a free army that is even larger than the one you killed. It's madness, and it's a deal breaker for me. Please don't tell me Heroes VII does anything like this.

- The game has so many spells, hero powers, and unit powers that preserve your army in the form of heals, regeneration, vampiric attacks, and summoning units. It feels so strange to have all these powers so early in the game. Summoning and resurrecting were high level spells in other Heroes games, and you couldn't always rely on them to preserve your entire army. The entire balance of the game seems based around you not losing a single member of your army. It feels broken. That's not how you balance a Heroes game.

- When you level up a hero, you have full access to every spell and skill category to choose how you want to advance. This looks great on the surface, but the problem is that it leads to min / max strategies where you pick the most overpowered skills every time, for nearly every hero. Most Heroes games give you a few choices for advancing your hero. This forces players to pick based on the map and situation.

I'm sure I could expand further on the list, but these are the things I hate most about VI. They just simplified so much of the strategy and tactics layers of the game, they wanted it to be more of an RPG. VI is definitely my most hated entry in the series. I would defend IV far more easily than VI. So, before I open my wallet, tell me. Does VII bring the strategy and tactics back that were missing in VI? Is VII a Heroes game or a King's Bounty wannabe?

[Galehot]

HVII is total garbage.

[[^.^] Wo0olfgaNg™]

Hi Liverbest

I think you better have a look on youtube channels to see the gameplay.
In my opinion H7 has a good direction, close to H3/H5. Still many bugs to solve, expecially on Multiplayer side, a little work Skillwhell and Faction specialisation ( in a way the they feel more different ) - which is quite in the making ..
But as strategy and tactics go, they are not like in H6.

[Galehot]

Originally posted by ^.^ Wolfy™:

In my opinion H7 has a good direction, close to H3/H5.

This is not true. Yes it plays different than H6 but it is not close to H3/H5 like at all. It feels very different and most importantly subpar. I rather play H3/H5 than H7, there is more content in H3/H5, better (and different!) game-design, better balance, and is not full of bugs.

[Rion]

Heroes VII feels like a very healthy mix between Heroes III and Heroes V, with the (further improved) visual style of Heroes VI. I enjoy the game a lot, probably more than VI. I didn't hate that entry either even though I did have some gripes with it, most of which you listed.
The way I see it, VII has the potential to be one of, if not the best in the franchise if it gets patched up a bit more and gets at least two additional factions.

[FoxMan]

I can't say I'm the most oriented and expirenced fan and player, but I spent in M&M III, M&M V, M&M VI [not so much M&M IV and M&M VII] a lot of time and I really enjoyed it. I also am somewhat familiar with the "new lore" since M&M V. I love the series so much and I personally think this is the most enjoying and charismatic startegy game in all game kind.

I don't want to wite a poem so let's get straigh into the action -
Heroes now have a bit more limited movement points so that's something changed since M&M 6 where you basicly had a possibilty to expend your movement points two times. Control areas stay with us and that's a possitive thing both in gameplay mechanics and logic. Let's imagine a sawmill near your capitol city - enemy empire sends a hero to capture it and it's so annoying and in a way of logic how would it even be possible... I mean this object works on your teritory and your civilians ssomeone randomly takes it saying "okay people - now you work for us" and transports this ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ wood through your entire empire without beeing captured. Control areas should stay in the game just for the sake of comfort. Now moving on to castles - when you fight with an opponent, spend your troop, time of your hero(es) you would expext something more than just a "gold mine" you would expect to support your army and your special faction trades like necromancy - and if you want to have mixed armies for whatever reason you didn't have to convert the castle. But we all know that having every catle in the same faction standard as yours is a blessing - more troops of the same kind even if not all of them are at the same level of usefullness as others. The map was one of the best in the entire series - not too big not too small, clear and just beautifull with this graphic.

I wouldn't say that AI neccesraly cheated... but on the adventure map it was playing extremely good... no... it was perfect - saving gold from the weary star of the game, using faction trades like a boss - once I was playing as stronghold vs the only left over play Haven - I defeated his main army but he returned with 3 weeks worth of growth, nothing special... expect for 300 Celestials yeah, he resurrected them on the altar of somethingm, I still don't know how he had so much money, but it wasn't impossible - just surpring... and painfull, but it was long ago when I didn't know "win switches" ...lovley balancing. Oh and AI's usually acumulate armies in their catles sending early heroes as taunts. I will tell you that - AI in M&M VII is brain dead, it does absolutley nothing... except for spamming heroes and just running aroung with them not even bother to merge armies or anything, it will also build you nice maxed catle... without funds to buy troops and defend it.

Now these powers are helpful in really early game [obviosly keeping your army safe for longer is invaluable] but in lategame the only thing to go with is A.) Might hero B.) Heroic charge, Cleave, heroism C.) champions... it will wipe out from 2 to 3 enemy stacks in frist turn... no matter which stacks, even 3 times stronger. also not only this thing but magic heroes are so sooooooo weak compare to might heroes, I mean you can do some nasty stuff with Time Stasis or other CC... but it just won't save you as you would need to survive the charger of your opponend and still deal with other stacks... also dispell is so easy in this game and it's pretty much available for everyone at the same cost. Also I want to add that damaging spells which are 50% of all spells are literally usless. Which in conclusion makes magic heroes more of a toy that a weapon they at least tryed to be in earlier verions. Accualy in Heroes III ther were pretty good... but also limited. Also you need lvl 15 to summon elementals - on this lvl you will have far bigger problems that dealing with neutral stacks as summoning is usless [ maybe it's not for campain sidekicks but still not necessary]

Well, I have to agree that you can notice barely any diffrenece in playing a Vindicator, Walord or DemonLord & a Necromancer, Sorcerrer or Piromancer, but it's not a bad idea at all. Probably the only thing they did [somewhat] good in M&M VII was skill system - now you have "skill pizza" and after every level up you can chose a skill, but your choices are limited to certain skills for example you can't make every hero have reurrection - only Haven or Academy, no other heroes will use this spell efficiently if they will even get it [unless they have GM paragon]

Now... I would probably buy Heroes VII again just becouse it's M&M [and it's like 50€ for 5 yeras if it will be realised ever again] - closest game to my heart even if It would be so bad... bugged, unbalanced, broken, not optimised with crappy graphics and sound effects. I could say anything, but I would nerer say that it's boring or impossible to play. I still hope M&M VIII will be better couse this game is already lost to us. I would also say that M&M VI at least had so cute and sweet blurry, glowing graphic that I would forgive many bugs, mistakes and balancing issues... which honetly balancing never really was a strong side of M&M, there were always some win switches. Anyways that's all we have from this game and better take it while we can or some people with heart and love for games will take work over the project or do soething entirely new rather that treat it like a money-making-maschine with greedy, broken corporations and developers.

[Galehot]

So my post got removed. H7 is not a "healthy mix between H3 and H5" such statement reflects only ignorance of the series.

[watcherzero]

Played all of them and agree its direction of travel is firmly back towards the roots of the 3/4 era.

[bloodraven43]

heroes 6 sucks and the ai in homm6 is horrible along with the same maps over and over again. the conversion of towns was a cool idea but was only in place because of the cheating ai. without that feature no one could play the game...lol...homm7 is a much better game for sure on all levels.

[Hoo the fool]

I fully agree with Liverbest. H7 is too simple and no strategy.

[FoxMan]

Originally posted by bloodraven43:

heroes 6 sucks and the ai in homm6 is horrible along with the same maps over and over again. the conversion of towns was a cool idea but was only in place because of the cheating ai. without that feature no one could play the game...lol...homm7 is a much better game for sure on all levels.

You're kidding with that last part, right?

[bloodraven43]

Originally posted by Lemmie:

Originally posted by bloodraven43:

heroes 6 sucks and the ai in homm6 is horrible along with the same maps over and over again. the conversion of towns was a cool idea but was only in place because of the cheating ai. without that feature no one could play the game...lol...homm7 is a much better game for sure on all levels.

You're kidding with that last part, right?

i thought the stories were the best in the series ...overall homm7 is awesome imho...i think folks except to much these days, nothing caan satisfy them.

[Galehot]

Originally posted by bloodraven43:

i think folks except to much these days, nothing caan satisfy them.

There's the other side of the mirror: some people seem to be satisfied too easily and encourage companies in delivering mediocre broken unfinished products.

[FoxMan]

Originally posted by bloodraven43:

i thought the stories were the best in the series ...overall homm7 is awesome imho...i think folks except to much these days, nothing caan satisfy them.

I can relay on why this would be good enough for someone - I mean it's just fine [extremely bugged, but still fine], but after M&M VI I think people could expect something more that a step backwards.

Originally posted by Choikom:

There's the other side of the mirror: some people seem to be satisfied too easily and encourage companies in delivering mediocre broken unfinished products.

Now that's the magic of marketing. You could literally wrap *ekhm* in a golden box and sell it for a... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7goA_DnGIbU :D

[bloodraven43]

Originally posted by Lemmie:

Originally posted by bloodraven43:

i thought the stories were the best in the series ...overall homm7 is awesome imho...i think folks except to much these days, nothing caan satisfy them.

I can relay on why this would be good enough for someone - I mean it's just fine [extremely bugged, but still fine], but after M&M VI I think people could expect something more that a step backwards.

Originally posted by Choikom:

There's the other side of the mirror: some people seem to be satisfied too easily and encourage companies in delivering mediocre broken unfinished products.

Now that's the magic of marketing. You could literally wrap *ekhm* in a golden box and sell it for a... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7goA_DnGIbU :D

well homm 6 was a step backwards bigtime from all the other heroes games around. hell, blackhole even got the name wrong. that should give you a clue i would think...lol...heroes 7 is a much all around better experience for sure...btw the game has come along way since release, so these so called bugs you speak of are far and few between.

[FoxMan]

Originally posted by bloodraven43:

well homm 6 was a step backwards bigtime from all the other heroes games around. hell, blackhole even got the name wrong. that should give you a clue i would think...lol...heroes 7 is a much all around better experience for sure...btw the game has come along way since release, so these so called bugs you speak of are far and few between.

Could you tell me ANYTHING literally anything that might and magic VII developers implemented by themselfes BUT flanking system

don't even make me laugh speaking about bugs... this game is a freaking beta stage and we're their free testers as meny poeple know... and we paid 50E for that.

They had to change the name becouse there is a game called Heroes of might and magic VI - it's an old dungeon crawler by 3DO - I would suggest you to make some reaserch before you start to point out other people intentions.

PS they didn't even bother to do flanking by themselfes... they just copyied it from M&M online... I don't know what was i expecting