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In beta, diplomacy was extremely op and many units joined you for free. It is better now but I agree it needs some smaller fixes.
You don't see any heroes with "luck" or "leadership" as their special ability.
Those are more stat's than skills. Yes, they have skills that affect them, but leadership and luck are still in a completely separate category from actual skills like Diplomacy.
You can't compare the functionality of diplomacy to leadership or luck.
It's like saying that fireball should have a chance to do 0 damage. (No effect) - just like what is happening with diplomacy. You don't compare spells or warcries or governor abilities to leadership and luck..
That being said - I don't have a problem with abilities or skills having AN ELEMENT of luck to them... But there should never be a chance for something to completely not function at all, purely based on luck - again, especially when it is your hero's MAIN FREAKING ABILITY!
Diplomacy should ideally work like this:
Novice: x% chance for part of any low or trivial group to join you at cost
Expert: x% chance for all of any low or trivial group to join you at cost. y% chance for part of any modest group to join you at cost
Master: all low or trivial groups will always offer to join you at cost. x% chance for all of any modest group to join you at cost. y% chance for part of any average group to join you at cost.
Then the bonuses from artifacts and castle improvements would modify the x and y % values.
You would want to replace "trivial" , "low" and "average" with "core", "elite" and "champion" creatures.
But having Master that triggers "always join" effect would be tottaly OP .
I can better see it like this :
Novice: x% chance for core creatures to join, up to x% from total neutral stack, at a cost
Expert: x+% chance for core + elite creatures to join, up to x+% from total neutral stack, at a cost
Master: x++% chance for core, elite and champion creatures to join, up to x++% from total neutral stack, at a cost
And of course, skills to reduce joining cost, to increase the number that can join and maybe converting to your creature ( like a grandmaster skill for necro at least )
I don't think so - see if you look at it like this: for something to be trivial or low compared to you, you already have to be so powerful that their forces don't even matter to yours. That means that you won't even be gaining that much relative strength from taking them on (assuming that you even have room in your army to start with). In fact, most of the time you'd probably just want to kill them off for the extra XP instead! Plus, I don't think it's unreasonable for forces that are completely outnumbered and outmatched to offer to join a master diplomat. Hell, they would probably offer to join a barbarian who couldn't even speak their language, just out of fear anyway.. LOL
And I don't think it would unbalance the skill, because like I said above, the amount of force you would be gaining would be insignificant (by definition) to yours that you already have. So you're not gaining a huge advantage even though these puny forces would always offer to join. It would be more like just a small supplement to your existing forces.
And remember, you DO need the extra resources to purchase all of these creatures which is by itself a huge balancing factor as well. Basically, if you already have tens of thousands of extra gold lying around, you're probably already in one of two situations: (You're already winning; Or - you're in an end-game desperate situation with no troops of your own left).
But you.d probably have at that moment no more than 50 elite in your army also. So you.ll double your elite creatures ( especially if you find same faction as yours) - so it.s not almost nothing as you say. And from that, you.ll increase exponential .
But again, Diplomacy need a bit of rebalance somehow, since it.s useless right now with that ridiculous amount of money neutrals ask to join ..
you conveniently ignore balancing factors like cost when presenting your argument/scenario against making the changes I suggested, but then point them out a couple sentences later when you admit that it needs re-balance...
DIPLOMACY IS NOT A FREE RIDE (even with the changes I suggested)!
Stop treating it like one for purposes of argument!
There's no snowball effect because it's very much limited by your cash.
Also, if 50 elite creatures is trivial to you and you gain 50 elite creatures then you're NOT GAINING SIGNIFICANTLY MORE POWER THAN YOU ALREADY HAD. It doesn't matter how many numbers you use because it's all relative. You could say that 5,000,000 elite creatures are trivial to you and then they offer to join you. WELL GUESS WHAT?! IF 5,000,000 creatures are already trivial to you then YOU'RE STILL NOT GAINING SIGNIFICANTLY MORE POWER THAN YOU ALREADY HAD. It's called percentages.
Look.. I'm sorry for "shouting" but I'm becoming exasperated because all of the arguments against the changes I proposed so far keep ignoring the actual mechanics, and balancing factors already in place for the skill!
I've not heard a single compelling (or even sound) argument that is based in reality, so far, against making any/all of the changes I suggested.
Doubling the numbers of one stack in your army does not give you big advantage ?
Of course you see them trivial; even an whole week`s army from your castle is trivial after one month, but it.s Big to your total army right ?
Anyway , you.re taking this much too personally. It.s just my opinion .
I respect yours.
Unfortunately, you're wrong. The problem is that the computer takes your hero's power into account when factoring in Trivial and the like (after all, it's meant to indicate how easy it would be for you to defeat them). So if you have say a high level hero with almost no troops (very likely when you teched all the way up to max diplomacy), an army that is LARGER than the one you are carrying can be marked Trivial.
So one scenario where this is horrendously OP is when you build a high level mage and spent all your resources on mage guilds instead of creature production. Diplomacy the way you want it would make it viable to not build troop buildings.