Rising Angels: Reborn

Rising Angels: Reborn

Regarding Rising Angel: Fates Kickstarter
It seems like there will be a backer exclusive route that no one will ever be able to play unless they backed the kickstarter, essentially making you guys sell an incomplete game after the campaign is over. Is that correct?
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Showing 1-15 of 67 comments
TrickZZter Sep 13, 2014 @ 9:23am 
Yep, they are going to release a chopped down version after Kickstarter. Really bad advertising idea.
K. Tsuku  [developer] Sep 13, 2014 @ 10:03am 
The chopped down version is the free version so everyone can still continue the story told in Reborn. The reason for the KS bonus route is posted here. http://www.idhasstudios.com/?p=440
TrickZZter Sep 13, 2014 @ 10:17am 
Still don't understand why it should be Kickstarter exclusive. No one is forcing you to make this decision.
Last edited by TrickZZter; Sep 13, 2014 @ 10:18am
LemonRush7777 Sep 13, 2014 @ 11:48am 
You know, you can reward your backers in other ways that don't involve shutting down the entire gaming community unfairly. I was thinking of backing this game (as I did with 3 other VNs), but with this stance, I simply cannot find it in me to do it. This is an atrocious business decision that wouldn't look displaced in an EA board meeting room.

You could have made it a timed exclusive deal, made the extra route paid DLC (and gave backers a discount) as well as many other approaches. But gating critical game content behind a timed deal? This is just undefensable.

If anything, I'm sure a lot of people decided against backing it because of this. I'm sure a lot of people will also resort to piracy since the legit product will forever be inferior to the one provided in the high seas, but I'm not sure how much you care considering it will be free (if I understood correctly).

Maybe I'm just not seeing things straight and you actually don't mind people pirating it afterwards? Is that it?

For the record, I don't encorage piracy nor will I partake in it. I tend to just boycott bad business practises myself.
robomagon Sep 14, 2014 @ 8:41pm 
Originally posted by Fenrir007:
You could have made it a timed exclusive deal, made the extra route paid DLC (and gave backers a discount) as well as many other approaches. But gating critical game content behind a timed deal? This is just undefensable.
Agreed 100%. And then to have even more cut content for the $70 tier. Disgusting.
LemonRush7777 Sep 14, 2014 @ 9:11pm 
Originally posted by robomagon:
Originally posted by Fenrir007:
You could have made it a timed exclusive deal, made the extra route paid DLC (and gave backers a discount) as well as many other approaches. But gating critical game content behind a timed deal? This is just undefensable.
Agreed 100%. And then to have even more cut content for the $70 tier. Disgusting.

Oh, I didn't even read that far into the tiers! My god, this is disgusting.
Drtic Sep 15, 2014 @ 7:16am 
I was considering to back the kickstarter, too, but after I've realized it's just yet another game containing digital exclusives, I've decided to pass. I think these things hurt the gaming industry in the long-term and I refuse to support such behaviour.

While I applaud the devs for releasing their games for free, I think the approval of such one-time exclusive promotion is a step backwards. I can get quite passionate about the things I like (including games) and to find out that there's something cool I can't access just because I've missed some silly promotion in the past which I've never even heard about at that time is a major let-down. :(

Timed exclusives, DLC discounted extras or out-of-game goodies would make for much better choices in my opinion.
Cutlass Jack Sep 15, 2014 @ 7:55am 
The way I see it:

If you don't back the kickstarter
...and it doesn't come out, you get 0% of the story.
...it does come out, it will probably cost $15 and you'll miss some optional story.

If you do back the kickstarter
...and it doesnt meet its goal it costs you nothing.
...If you do back the kickstarter and it does come out, it costs you the same $15 and you get the content.

If your deep 'moral' stance is that you don't like cut content, you're cutting yourself out of all the content. So if you have a genuine, non faked desire to see where the story goes, you might as well back the thing for the same price you'd pay anyway.

It feels like a no-brainer to me. Especially when you consider they gave you this game for free with added content from its original version. I felt the dev gave an honest, non-cash grab reason for the route he chose on the kickstarter. Not the way I would have gone, but its not a big deal to throw him double the money I felt the free game was worth for the sequel. I've paid much more for things I've enjoyed less. (Like today's lunch)

But I wouldn't be bothered at all if the exclusive content eventually became available somehow. Its not really the reason I'm backing it.
TrickZZter Sep 15, 2014 @ 9:19am 
Originally posted by Cutlass Jack:
So if you have a genuine, non faked desire to see where the story goes, you might as well back the thing for the same price you'd pay anyway.
You are mistaking.
1) They are going to release it for free.
2) To get full version you have to pay $70 (!!!) during Kicksterter campaign.
Last edited by TrickZZter; Sep 15, 2014 @ 9:20am
K. Tsuku  [developer] Sep 15, 2014 @ 9:47am 
It seems my point may not have been properly communicated. I am going to try one more time.

This is not DLC. This is not Old Man Komi hacking off a corner of the game and demanding money as he evilly twiddles his mustache. If you were to jump me on the street and steal the official Fates outline, you'd notice Faye's name is not on there. Alexi is there, Kika is there, Zuri is most definitely there, and a few other characters dot the list. Faye is not on the major route list. The game that will be released at the end of this SHOULD the kickstarter succeed is 100%.

So where does Faye and the KS route come from? I've never asked for money. It's not how IDHAS Studios runs. If I had my dreams come true, the only person who would ever pay for my works is me. Sadly, as previously explained, that dream has moved a bit further away as I need a bit of help to keep things going. When I sat down at my computer and started planning the kickstarter, I wanted to do something special for the people saving the series. Simple words of gratitude weren't enough. I asked myself, “What can a simple writer like me do for them as a gift?” Things like different color schemes didn't work here with it being a visual novel. So I said, “I'm a writer and what I do is write. I'll write them some bonus story!”

Now it has been asked why I didn't make this a timed-exclusive. If I looked at this like DLC, that would make sense. But it wasn't DLC, it was a gift from a grateful writer. For an analogy, let's look at it as a gift for helping a friend move. Your friend says he's thankful to have you as a friend and made you a hand-drawn picture of your favorite character. You can see the time he put into making it special just for you. Now, let's say you went to another friend's house and found that same picture put up in the house; the print having been sold for $5. Would that picture be quite as memorable? Would your present be as special now that you seen it being hawked off for money? Probably not. It would feel even worse if he got it for free and didn't even have to help carry that grand piano up the stairs.

And that's why there is a KS route and why I'm not selling it.

Regarding piracy, I have a firm stance against it. What I was saying is that pirates only hurt themselves and the fans because the money is used to add more content to enjoy.


Originally posted by TrickZZter:
Originally posted by Cutlass Jack:
So if you have a genuine, non faked desire to see where the story goes, you might as well back the thing for the same price you'd pay anyway.
You are mistaking.
1) They are going to release it for free.
2) To get full version you have to pay $70 (!!!) during Kicksterter campaign.

1. There will be no free version of it should the KS fail. Project development will be terminated at Sat, Sep 20 2014 3:14 PM EDT should we not break that barrier. I can't afford to carry the burden alone. Even then, the free version is going to be a lot more narrow in gameplay with only one major route. It'll be a lot more like the original Reborn instead of the lesbian Phoenix Wright that team jokes about.
2. While I refuse to hand over my gift route after the kickstarter, the standalone Sora adventure in the collector edition might be purchasable separate at a later date. I hadn't thought about this until now, so please don't be labeling that decision as "disgusting" when I hadn't even considered it.

TrickZZter Sep 15, 2014 @ 10:17am 
Fixed for you:
Originally posted by K. Tsuku:
Your friend says he's thankful to have you as a friend and selling you a hand-drawn picture of your favorite character.
You are selling your DLC/add-on/additional route (it doesn't matter how you phrase it) to get funds for you project. It's not a gift.
LemonRush7777 Sep 15, 2014 @ 2:10pm 
Honestly, everything you said could very well be applied to Call of Duty or any other game you might imagine.

You are not only rewarding your backers - you are terminally punishing EVERYONE ELSE. Is it really so hard to understand that the core of a visual novel are the routes?

Okay, maybe an example will be easier to understand. Imagine 4leaf decides to make a Kickstarter for Katawa Shoujo - maybe to port it to android. Now, to "reward" their backers, they decide to include a Misha route... but only for backers! Can you imagine the anger? Or imagine a kickstarter for YMK, but the Aeka route is locked for backers only. This makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever! Reward your backers in ways that don't ruin the fun of others that didn't back because they couldn't / didn't know / didn't want to at the time.

You want your game to be free so it can be appreciated by everyone - a commendable effort. But if that is true, why are you punishing the same people you want to play and enjoy your VN?

Also, like TrickZZter said, this is all semantics, because in the end, you are selling them content.

I am really dissapointed. I always thought of the VN scene, especially the OELVN portion of it, as very user oriented and friendly. Looks like I was wrong.

Oh, and you said you *may* sell it later as a collectors edition. Let me remind you that, if you do it, you will be betraying the trust of your backers, especially of those who may only have backed it because they wouldn't be able to get said content otherwise. Whatever it is you decide to do, be honest and upfront about it. Don't copy the Shadowrun kickstarter.
De Kus Sep 15, 2014 @ 2:22pm 
I don't understand the issue behind it. It's just a damn common "preorder bonus". I don't see the problem there. If you just pay cheap 15$ on Amazon you qualify for it. If you don't want to support this little project and don't think the game + preorder bonus is worth 15$... well you can gamble on it ever reaching the pledging goal and getting the game for cheap on a humble bundle or some 75% sale on steam...
(I decided on the first option)
Last edited by De Kus; Sep 15, 2014 @ 2:23pm
LemonRush7777 Sep 15, 2014 @ 2:43pm 
Originally posted by De Kus:
I don't understand the issue behind it. It's just a damn common "preorder bonus". I don't see the problem there. If you just pay cheap 15$ on Amazon you qualify for it. If you don't want to support this little project and don't think the game + preorder bonus is worth 15$... well you can gamble on it ever reaching the pledging goal and getting the game for cheap on a humble bundle or some 75% sale on steam...
(I decided on the first option)

It isn't a pre-order bonus. Pre-order bonus almost always are sold after the pre-order period is over.

This is not the case. If you don't back the project at the $70 tier, you will NEVER get the full game unless you pirate it. And in this case, it isn't just cosmetic crap, like the samurai clothes on the Naruto game - it is honest to good game content (extra routes!!!).
robomagon Sep 15, 2014 @ 2:50pm 
Originally posted by De Kus:
I don't understand the issue behind it. It's just a damn common "preorder bonus". I don't see the problem there. If you just pay cheap 15$ on Amazon you qualify for it. If you don't want to support this little project and don't think the game + preorder bonus is worth 15$... well you can gamble on it ever reaching the pledging goal and getting the game for cheap on a humble bundle or some 75% sale on steam...
(I decided on the first option)
Pre-order culture is a whole nother argument, so I'll just say that I think the entire idea of pre-orders and bonuses needs to die in a fire
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