Speed Factor for Two Weapon Style

[Pumpernickel]

Can anyone explain how the mechanics work pertaining to speed factor when your character is using a weapon in each hand? Been messing around with it a bit and I have no solid conclusion. I don't feel like one can put out twice the attacks. Or that a faster weapon in the off hand means you'd strike more with the off hand (as I would've assumed). Thanks in advance.

[Power and Wealth]

I think the engine just flat out gives you one extra attack pr round, no exceptions regardless of weapon speed.

[Pumpernickel]

Thanks for your input. That would coincide with my observations so far (making it pointless to use a dagger as one of the dual weilded weapons).
Do you know what the speed factor of a weapon does if you're only using one? Having grand mastery with both axes and daggers my attack speed with both of them is 3.5 per round. But the axe has a speed factor of 7 and the dagger of 2.

[Improper Use]

Dual wield simply alternates attacks from the two weapons.

as far as I know speed factor is related to when in the round the attack occurs (from 1-10)
if you have more than 1 attack per round, its rather a moot point splitting up; if it even occurs, through division weapon speed and attacks per round.

a round is six seconds

two attacks per round could be 1 and 5 in the round of 1-10
----which is at 1 second and 3 seconds.



so say we factor in weapon speed at sayy 7
----which would be at 4.2 seconds


@ 2 per round: does that mean I get (seven divided by 2) for 3.5?
so the first attack hits at 3.5 and the second at 7 with the round resetting at 10? (or at 2.1 sec and 4.2 sec)
Can we even make a measurement of this?
Can we obtain any advantage by this?


either way you are getting two attacks per reset. Or 3 or 5.

seems that weapon speed is only really revelant with 1 attack per round for obtaining the first hit, or potentially timing an interrupt. Though getting a weapon speed hit at 1 (a dagger) and then running away would be sorta useful I guess.. if you like micromanaging.
Cause thats an attack at 1 second and 5 seconds of running.
its not like you can do anything else during the round, just an attack or spell... or run.


lastly if performing a single attack out of a potential multipul attack does not reset the round i.e. if you perform 1 attack out of a potential three within a round and move, does not force you to wait out the round. You are averaging the initial attack, and since movement speed and frame rate have a direct line of consequence to your reaction speed.
Make this all a moot point?
Its not like you can check the attack hit, pause, issue a stop command, and issue another attack command to leverage any form of clipping.

If you are looking for what weapon to put where, the offhand is harder to hit with, so... southpaw is your stat-stick (if you have one) or the lesser damage.

[Second Batch]

In true DnD 2nd ed, speed was your initiative modifier. d10+ speed= when you go. Lower was better. Daggers and small weapons had speeds like 1 to 5, halberds and big two handers had 6 to 10 or so. So dropping by two ro three I think it was in Fighter's Handbook was pretty cool.

No idea how the real time game handles it though.

[Pumpernickel]

Thank you both for your replies

@Improper Use:

So if I'm interpreting what you're telling me correctly, speed factor is unimportant if you have multiple attacks per round and it's better to equip the larger weapons because they deal more damage? (So daggers are pointless for any character that has any weapon specialization they can afford to invest elsewhere?) Also, weapon speed and attacks per round are not related? I would've thought a lower weapon speed (2 with a dagger instead of 7 with an axe) would've computed into a character having more attacks per round. But I guess it does not seeing as my character has the same number of attacks with both weapons. Clarify this plz?

@c_axtell

What did you mean when you said "So dropping by two or three I think it was in Fighter's Handbook was pretty cool."? And in attacking earlier in a round (as with a dagger instead of a halberd) wouldn't that mean you'd be that much closer to a second attack? As I queried Improper Use: Wouldn't having a lower number in attack speed mean you'd end up with more attacks per round?

[Improper Use]

Originally posted by Pumpernickel:

Thank you both for your replies

@Improper Use:

So if I'm interpreting what you're telling me correctly, speed factor is unimportant if you have multiple attacks per round and it's better to equip the larger weapons because they deal more damage? (So daggers are pointless for any character that has any weapon specialization they can afford to invest elsewhere?) Also, weapon speed and attacks per round are not related? I would've thought a lower weapon speed (2 with a dagger instead of 7 with an axe) would've computed into a character having more attacks per round. But I guess it does not seeing as my character has the same number of attacks with both weapons. Clarify this plz?

Weapon speed is when in the round the attack happens (a round is six seconds in length@30FPS). For dual wield and multipul attacks per round it makes no real difference what speed factor they are.
The only real factor you need to consider is the THACO for each hand. With the off-hand having a lesser chance to actually connect you would be best off placing the lesser damaging or effect on hit there.

If you need to prove this to yourself. Turn on round pausing and place a dagger in the main-hand. (as long as you have not adjusted the frame-rate) you can count the seconds it takes to perform the attack. Then try it with a flail/morningstar in the mainhand. Ensure combat roll feedback is enabled in the feedback/text window.

The uninportance of weapon speed is especially noticable when you reach 3 attacks per round and above. Use a speed potion and have grandmastery.

if you are really really curious grab http://sourceforge.net/projects/eekeeper/ (eekeeper) and give yourself grandmastery in whatever.
Or instead, buy 2 of each, and go pick on a Kobold.

Trying dual daggers and dual flails would be rather conclusive, yes.

[MangoMan]

speed factor is when in the round you will perform your attack. (rounds are 6 seconds, and 10 rounds is called a "turn"). speed factor ranges from 0 (as soon as the round begins) to 10 (once the round ends).

basically it ends up being about how effective it is to "hit and run" with a weapon. with a low speed factor, you can effectively dance around, get your hit in after 6 seconds, and go back to dancing around. with a high speed factor this will be impossible, since you will need to stand toe-to-toe with the enemy for up to 6 seconds before you'll even attack him.

not really sure how this translates to multiple attacks per round, or dual-wielding, though. I would guess that it would cut the round up into equal sized parts, and that the speed factor would control when in the part the attack happened, but that's only a guess.