My thief skills layout. Suggestions?

[Toha]

Skills for 15th lvl thief (will dual into mage on HoF, so there will be enough exp)
Pickpocket - 100 (no bard in party)
Lockpicking - no points (will use knock)
Find traps - 100 (much easier to use then priest spells)
Move silently - 80
Hide in shadows - 80
Detect illusion - 100 (infinite true sight, yay!)
Set traps - no points (I'd love 100 here, but not enough skill points)
My main doubt lies in silent moving and hiding in shadows. Does the engine use silent move's value when determining character's overall stealth? If yes, should I keep silent move and hiding even? Will it be easy to hide with low hide in shadows and high silent moving?
And another question - is 100 in pickpocketing enough?

[Alpha]

I wouldn't put a single point into pickpocketing. For the rare occasions where you might want to use it you can boost it with potions.
Set traps is far more powerful in my opinion.

[solomonhume]

The engine use the average of silent moving and hiding in shadows.
So only the total investment matters

[Toha]

So, only Orrick, Oswald and Arundel in Kuldahar and someone in Lonelywood are targets for pickpocketing? Going with setting traps. Rings of free action I will acquire with potions, then. Thanks for the advice.

[FatalFrosty]

There's half a dozen rings of free action in the game, not counting the pick pocketable one(s).

From what I recall in BG2, there are some things that knock cannot bust.

There's tons of potions and side equipment that can rise your hide in shadows and move silently skills. Much more than enough than the very few almost unexisting cases where those skills are really 'handy'. And when they are, there's always easier ways to go around.

Traps & Locks is all you need. Illusion can be practical. And by the way, only detect illusion works like a percentage. 100 value in the other ones doesn't mean perfect rate of success.

[robomagon]

Potions of Master Thievery stack with themselves, so no need for any points in pickpocket at all.

[antyszwed]

why did they use two stats - hide+move silently?

[philos3]

Originally posted by FatalFrosty:

Traps & Locks is all you need. Illusion can be practical. And by the way, only detect illusion works like a percentage. 100 value in the other ones doesn't mean perfect rate of success.

The percentage is a "base" or starting percentage. There are other factors which will adjust this percentage for a final percentage chance to succeed. If you try to hide in shadows in daylight in an open area your chance is reduced (stands to reason) so 100% skill in that case is not a guarantee. Conversely, if you try it in that same spot at night they probably will succeed. I do not know the algorithm parameters. But it does seem to make a difference. When I do have someone try to hide in shadows I move them to a spot where the map appears darker or shaded.

Likewise, if you try to pickpocket an NPC with high perception (intelligence) like Orrick they will be a harder mark to pick than a commoner in the streets of Kuldahar. This seems pretty logical (to me) as well. The game unfortunately does not explain this well nor does it reflect anything in the log as to what your chances were.

I would guess that there are not many factors involved in detecting Illusion so that probably is a straight forward perctage.

Originally posted by antyszwed:

why did they use two stats - hide+move silently?

The idea is that there are some opponents that can detect you by sound even without seeing you. Don't know which. I usually default to invisibility spell or a potion.

[Black Sheep Inc]

Honestly, if you were just gonna use knock to open things, I would take everything you invested in to hide/move silently and put it into lockpicking/set straps. Invisibility provides better stealth and is a much, MUCH better use of the second level spell slot than knock once you realize that disarming traps, lockpicking, and summoning/utility spells (as a general rule) don't break the effect.

[Wicket W. Warrick]

Originally posted by Black Sheep Inc:

Honestly, if you were just gonna use knock to open things, I would take everything you invested in to hide/move silently and put it into lockpicking/set straps. Invisibility provides better stealth and is a much, MUCH better use of the second level spell slot than knock once you realize that disarming traps, lockpicking, and summoning/utility spells (as a general rule) don't break the effect.

Honestly after 8 year the OP probably doesn't need any more advice on the subject.

Anyway you can't compare invisibility spell and stealth without condisering that the first is limited, and limits other spells, while the second is a free ability at will. Using stealth approach, actually you need both.
Then lockpick is better than pickpocket or detect illusion. maybe better to waste one of them.
Anyway the point is that if you want stealth AND thief ability since early levels you need more characters, not necessary thieves, for instance a bard and a ranger. Otherwise you need to sacrifice either stealth or some thief ability.

[philos3]

Originally posted by Wicket W. Warrick:

Honestly after 8 year the OP probably doesn't need any more advice on the subject.

Oh my gosh, Wicket, I totally missed that this was an old thread. LOL, I need to pay more attention!

[Black Sheep Inc]

Originally posted by Wicket W. Warrick:

Originally posted by Black Sheep Inc:

Honestly, if you were just gonna use knock to open things, I would take everything you invested in to hide/move silently and put it into lockpicking/set straps. Invisibility provides better stealth and is a much, MUCH better use of the second level spell slot than knock once you realize that disarming traps, lockpicking, and summoning/utility spells (as a general rule) don't break the effect.

Honestly after 8 year the OP probably doesn't need any more advice on the subject.

Anyway you can't compare invisibility spell and stealth without condisering that the first is limited, and limits other spells, while the second is a free ability at will. Using stealth approach, actually you need both.
Then lockpick is better than pickpocket or detect illusion. maybe better to waste one of them.
Anyway the point is that if you want stealth AND thief ability since early levels you need more characters, not necessary thieves, for instance a bard and a ranger. Otherwise you need to sacrifice either stealth or some thief ability.

Damn it, who necro'ed this? Didn't see the original date XD.

Completely agree with the point about spell economy, although to clarify I meant "better" purely in the context of the character. I was imagining running them as a scout/summoner/utility caster, a build that would theoretically never need to break stealth in the first place, which is a tremendous asset in HoF mode (especially in the early levels past easthaven if you're starting from scratch).

[Malagon]

Necroing a thread is fine if it remains relevant, which this thread does.