This game has really grown on me

[Ghoul Hunter]

Anyone else really like IWD? I've spent quite a lot of time with this game and learned to appreciate the gameplay. It progresses and is balanced well, it has good systems in place, etc. It might be linear, but it has a really nice sense of progression to it, and every battle feels like I'm clearing my way through the game.

BG1 in comparison is full of empty maps with random meaningless encounters, hardly any loot, and it's so open that most of the world feels kind of unimportant/cut and paste. I quickly found myself exploring with ctrl + j, because I couldn't stand it any more. At that point I started thinking to myself 'Am I having fun?'

I also was annoyed at some scripted encounters, like the one that had a high level ogre mage with pre-buffed immunities/haste and instant kill lightning bolts. I could not kill him without fire wand cheese. It was really unsatisfying. Sure, I could come back at high level, but where's the fun in that? I was also bothered about the fact there wasn't much to do with gold. Why collect gold? There were 4 items in the whole game I could buy with it. The item game is lack luster.

I have to compliment IWD on it's game design. I enjoy that the dungeons progress at a pretty good rate. Everything is completely doable. They really mapped things out well. While sparse, I do enjoy the hidden side quests and subtle choices you can make in game. I enjoy that there is plenty of good loot with a variety of effects. I enjoy that there is a lot to buy in the stores, and that there isn't enough gold to get everything. Nothing worse than finding a bunch of gold and realising there is nothing to spend it on. The game just feels well-crafted.

I enjoy that the difficulties are also balanced well. It's great fun to try and ironman this game on nightmare. It's quite doable; the RNG is very minimal. If something works once it almost always works. BG1 had a lot of crap that could happen on nightmare, like random encounter archer squads or the ettercap encounters. I was not immersed, after being thrown into a instant kill encounter. The fact that there's infinite random encounters made it worse, because I didn't want to explore, out of fear of impending doom. Icewind Dale's limited monster count feels really good to clear through. It's so satisfying to know you cleared out a difficult encounter, knowing it's all said and done.

I'm sorry if I'm criticizing BG1 a bit harshly, it did come about quite a bit earlier than this game. I needed something for comparison. I decided to play through both games back and forth, and these were my feelings about them. IWD has just really grown on me, and I really respect it as a game. It's an underappreciated gem.

If I had to criticize IWD on a few things, it would be:

The randomized loot was a bad idea. It's really lame to get the crap item in the loot table, or the item that nobody in your party can use, or to not get the item you need. I'm using mods that allow me to pick what I want. This means I can use clubs if I want, and not be punished for it.

Some of the weapons in the smithy aren't priced properly. The weapons are priced so high that you'll find a weapon of equivalent or better power before you can actually afford the weapon in the shop. The 2h Sword +3 is a good example. I usually have the +4 2h sword, before I can afford the shop's +3.

They could have a few more weapons of certain types. Shortbows, quarterstaffs, clubs, and short swords feel a bit under-represented.

[Armanz]

I usually tend to compare it's mechanics and everything to BG2 (I do not like BG1 very much, though) but either way I've played through IWD roughly 30 times through the years. By now I'm bored with it but after so many runs that's no surprise. What I appreciate mostly, even more than the things you mentioned is the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ music. It's just so good. I can just start a game and listen to Easthaven in Peace for half an hour. Regarding gold spending, I agree and disagree. The mage has a nice stock that adds nice items through the chapters and you get some nice Bard equip in town, too. Also, there's some decent merchants throughout the game. What I find lackluste is Conlan the smith. His original non DLC equip is not good enough to be bought and the HoW items are too situational for my tastes (though maybe that's my dislike for encounter specific weapons). What you hate I love also - the random loot. Imho it really adds to the replayability of the game. Some of the randomized loot was simply badly designed (like getting a Studded Leather Armor +3 with or simply without a physical resistance bonus or a thieving bonus) but I found most of the RNG loot fairly balanced except maybe for the times you get freaking Bhaal's Fire and just slash your way through everything the Evil throws at you.
I found the EEs to be refreshing as well (at least for me as a veteran) as the new classes and (rarely) spells add some new possibilities or layers to the game, although it is too easy to get an OP party now with the broken kits like Dwarven Defender, Archer & the Sorcerer. Weapon diversity is another weakness, I agree and it's not just weapons but gear in general (I'm looking at you Boots). But that just seemed to be a thing in those games in general, excluding BG2 from this list which was simply too epic in scope to leave such a thing underdeveloped.
I could gosh about IWD for hours, the music is epic, the maps are beautiful, thieves are useless, combat is engaging but not too off-putting for newer players (compared to other titles at least). The story, albeit lacking was to my liking as well and it just has so many nice dungeons...everytime I get to the Severed Hand I'm just happy, so happy. I love you Icewind Dale, I will never leave you for nothing in the world except for Pillars of Eternity 2, what, who said that? :)
On a sidenote: What do you think of the two expansions? Because I'm not a fan.

[Ghoul Hunter]

Originally posted by Armanz:

*Shortened*
On a sidenote: What do you think of the two expansions? Because I'm not a fan.

I haven't played the expansions as much. I think they're alright, as a layman.

[D'amarr from Darshiva]

That Ogre you refer to sounds like Khark at Firewine Bridge. He isn't prebuffed, but sets up protections that require more effort than simple hack'n'slash combat. Several wands, offensive potions and poison hit him well. Of course, fleeing, drinking invisibility potions and letting his protections time out, is another option. But I agree, such encounters in BG 1 feel out of place in an otherwise rather empty "world".

The random loot in IWDEE is great. I love it! It adds entertainment and affects how I play the game, and it can even influence my decisions on which weapon skills to learn. Less meta-gaming -> great!

[Ghoul Hunter]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

The random loot in IWDEE is great. I love it! It adds entertainment and affects how I play the game, and it can even influence my decisions on which weapon skills to learn. Less meta-gaming -> great!

The random loot of IWD leads to meta gaming (due to poor execution). Because some things can't be relied upon, like clubs, you won't ever pick clubs. There's only one magic club you can guaranteed acquire until HoW, I think. This means if you aren't lucky enough to have a club drop for you, you are SoL. This means you can't dual-wield clubs. This also means your club user is stuck with a +2 weapon the entire game, which won't work on some enemies and the final boss. On the other hand, morning stars are all over the place, so it's a meta choice to pick morning stars for your cleric or fighters. The way to avoid meta is to make an ample supply of every weapon and balance them, making them all acquirable during a playthrough. Of course, this can't really be changed outside of mods, because it's almost a 20 year old game. That's just my take on it.

[Ghoul Hunter]

Originally posted by D'amarr from Darshiva:

That Ogre you refer to sounds like Khark at Firewine Bridge. He isn't prebuffed, but sets up protections that require more effort than simple hack'n'slash combat. Several wands, offensive potions and poison hit him well. Of course, fleeing, drinking invisibility potions and letting his protections time out, is another option. But I agree, such encounters in BG 1 feel out of place in an otherwise rather empty "world".

I'm kind of torn about the Khark encounter. He's out of place, for sure, being a high level wizard with pre-buffs already cast on him, in a low level zone. I want to say it's kind of dumb, because it's just a death sentence to mess with him at the level you might encounter him, like 3-4. But then again, a lot of BG2 is like that as well, with Kangaxx, dragons, liches, etc. Most of those encounters get cheesed, unless you wait until later to do them.

I think it's just a viewpoint problem. IWD is linear and plays progressively without powerful items littered all over the place, while BG is a sand-box with a mixed bag of enemies with a lot of powerful items that can trivialize any encounter. Every encounter can be done with the right items in BG, even if it's not a straight fight. I guess I've just forgotten that's how BG is. If I were to do an Ironman run, I'd probably have to make a list of the items I need for each super encounter and then use that to complete the run. I wouldn't be able to just free-style Ironman the game, like I do with IWD.

I kind of like the viewpoint of an immersive, non-meta experience. IWD delivers on that front. The BG series is very meta-dependent, in comparison. Gotta know exactly what things to use on the absurdly powerful enemy. Some people are into that.

[sick duck]

IWD > BG2 > BG1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> ToB and SoD

[Ghoul Hunter]

Originally posted by Armanz:

*shortened*
On a sidenote: What do you think of the two expansions? Because I'm not a fan.

I was thinking about the expansions. I think they suffer from powercreep, sort of like BG2: ToB. So, they aren't as compelling as the core game. You reach a point where levels don't matter that much, there's no HLA's, equipment doesn't change that much due to having amazing stuff already. The Trial has some good challenge in it, though.

[abhaysinghsaini]

Icewind Dale is an underrated masterpiece. Its atmospheric quality, subtle story and the beautiful level design are too good.
Though Heart of Winter is a tad boring with ramped up difficulty and too much snow.
It is very well done game, where the thoroughness was complete. However, it can be enjoyed mostly by people with high imagination, as its not as overt with the dialogues and cutscenes. Its power lies in its dialogue, music and "feel".

[Cobra]

I love the color palette used in this game, the places are beautiful too, like the Seldarine's Hand, Dorn's Deep and Eashaven.
Musics are so nice, especially the main theme, and others like The Astrolab, Dorn's Deep...

The only thing I really don't like at all is the final boss and his immunities to so many weapons/effects/spells

[iamdorf]

This game has also grown on me too. For a long time I was stuck at Dragon's Eye. Then after I got through that, the game becomes much more enjoyable. I like the Heart of Winter DLC as it adds another village to explore (I get tired of Kuldahar). I do wish that there were more interesting people to talk to as there are in IWD2 but I love trying out different parties and seeing how it goes.

[Ancient Ways]

Baldur's Gate 1 was the first ever infinity engine game that Black Isle made back in the day. As such it was their "rookie game" with the infinity engine. As you know, developer studios are usually under a certain amount of pressure from publishers to finish a game in a certain time.

As much as I like BG1 it have some rather stupid things in it, if we're to admit the truth. It is easily the weakest of the infinity engine games. But, it does have it's fun moments and I still prefer it over many non infinity engine games.

By the time IWD came out they had some experience under their belt and they made something really good.

I have fond memories of the original IWD. I remember when rangers got an extra attack per round when they just had a 1 handed weapon and nothing in the off hand. The first party I ever beat the game with had a ranger/cleric.

Black Isle did that with the rangers because they hadn't implemented weapon styles yet, so rangers couldn't dual weild (nobody could in original IWD) and rangers would've been lacking compared to other classes if they hadn't done something.

Nowadays, it's pretty easy to just put that one extra point in dual wield and have a proper ranger. But, sometimes I kind of miss the old "one handed extra attack" ranger of the old IWD.

[Emromulus]

Originally posted by Ancient Ways:

Baldur's Gate 1 was the first ever infinity engine game that Black Isle made back in the day. As such it was their "rookie game" with the infinity engine. As you know, developer studios are usually under a certain amount of pressure from publishers to finish a game in a certain time.

As much as I like BG1 it have some rather stupid things in it, if we're to admit the truth. It is easily the weakest of the infinity engine games. But, it does have it's fun moments and I still prefer it over many non infinity engine games.

By the time IWD came out they had some experience under their belt and they made something really good.

I have fond memories of the original IWD. I remember when rangers got an extra attack per round when they just had a 1 handed weapon and nothing in the off hand. The first party I ever beat the game with had a ranger/cleric.

Black Isle did that with the rangers because they hadn't implemented weapon styles yet, so rangers couldn't dual weild (nobody could in original IWD) and rangers would've been lacking compared to other classes if they hadn't done something.

Nowadays, it's pretty easy to just put that one extra point in dual wield and have a proper ranger. But, sometimes I kind of miss the old "one handed extra attack" ranger of the old IWD.

Ive recently finished BG1. It is quite ... yeah. In the game manual for BG2, Bioware CEO explains that BG1 was the first RPG they ever made as a company and that they had NO idea what they were doing. Also, Bioware made BG1, BlackIsle published. So it wasn't Just literally the first infinity engine game, it was their first RPG game lol.

BlackIsle Studios made and published IWD and IWD2 :)

BlackIsle, for those who are interested, is now Obsidian Entertainment and they've made KoTR: The Sith Lords, and Neverwinter nights 2 and Fallout New Vegas. Bioware did Neverwinter nights 1.

[Ancient Ways]

Actually, for BG1, bioware made the game engine, black isle made the game using the game engine and it was published by Interplay. BG2 was still primarily published by Interplay, but black isle had a hand in it. Interplay was having financial difficulty around this time, so that may be why.

Story behind Interplay is kind of a sad one. They were a really great developer/publisher in their day, but made some bad decisions. They're actually still around if you can believe it, but are a mere shadow of their former self.

[Emromulus]

Sorry, and yes I meant to infer BioWare created the IE engine with when I said, they made the first one :P

[WhispersOfTheWind]

It's just so great that once you start playing you sort of want more and more, it really does grow on you as noted. If you're the type for it at least. I've been playing the game for what now, close to 20 years? I think close to 20 years and unlike a lot of other games.

This one is a classic. It's right up there with some games for me like Thief 1 & 2 and System Shock 2.