Aster 30 systems incorrect behiavour

[LMPT]

Hello!


I noticed a few issues with the ASTER 30-based systems (i.e the SAMP/T and the PAAMS):

1 - When firing a Scud B at a SAMP/T, the missile is never tracked, let alone dectected, using the Arabel radar. The reentry vehicle is detected by the operators visually (Mk.1 eyeball), which is basically useless since this doesn't permit a missile firing.

2 - A quite similar issue can be seen using the EMPAR radar on the figates carrying the Aster 30: the radar manages to detect the missile, but way too late to reliably fire and guide a missile. This is somehow mitigated by the S.1850M VSR radar carried by some frigates, which manages to detect and track the missile quite early), but this is not realistic. The S.1850M VSR is a long-range, air surveillance radar. Even with the BMD modification, it cannot provide a reliable fire guidance. If the EMPAR doesn't get a solid lock on the missile, there will be no launch. In this scenario, there is no launch indeed but I'm not sure wether that's because of issue #2 or issue #3.


3 - Independantly from these radar issues, the Aster 30 is listed in the database as beeing able to intercept a target travelling at 2300 kts. This is incorrect, the baseline Aster 30 Block 0 is able to intercept SRBMs with a range of around 600km, i.e with a terminal velocity of approx. 2200m/s, or around 4250 kts (this ABM capacity was increased in to 1500km-range IRBMs with the Aster 30 Block 1 NT, which boast a new Ku band seeker and improved software). This capacity was demonstrated in 2011 when an A30 B0 shot down a Black Sparrow target missile simulating a Scud B , flying at a speed of around 2000 m/s.

4 - A more trivial issue: the Aster 30 Block 1NT page in the DB3000 build 477 is using the MIM-23 Hawk description and picture.

Have a nice day. :)

[LMPT]

Another small issue: the Aster datalink can handle two missiles, not one. :)

[Dimitris]

Thanks, we'll log this for investigation.

Can you please provide as many sources as possible.

[LMPT]

- On the Aster datalink:

"The system can track up to 100 targets simultaneously and manage the uplink transmission of command update data to 16 missiles simultaneously. The standard Arabel radar operates at 150kW peak power and has a range of 100km."

https://www.army-technology.com/projects/aster-30/

Here I must point out that while the uplink can handle 16 links, the whole system itself is limited to two missiles per salvo. However, I can't back that claim using open-source data, so act as you want, using either the capability of the datalink or the real-life salvo value.


- On the S.1850M VSR: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S1850M

Note that it is specified that the 1850M is coupled with either the SAMPSON or the EMPAR, and is used as the "long range radar (LRR) component of the Principal Anti Air Missile System".

The way the system works is:

- The 1850M detects a target at long range.
- The targeting radar is then cued on that target using electronical steering
- When the TR has acquired the target, the missile is fired using data from this radar ("EMPAR is compatible with the PAAMS system, providing guidance to Aster 15 or 30 missiles for medium or long range air defence." - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMPAR )

It is worth noting that the EMPAR and the SAMPSON are also used as the datalink emitters, which makes it even more impossible (I know) to fire at a target out of range of these radars, even if the 1850M sees it (see the EMPAR wiki page again).

- On the Aster 30 Block 0 beeing able to destroy 2000m/s-class targets:

http://forcesoperations.com/sampt-successfully-destroy-ballistic-missile/

The Black Sparrow was developped in order to mimic the characteristics of a Scud B-like RV, to test the Arrow 2 ABM (https://space.skyrocket.de/doc_lau/black_sparrow.htm and https://www.rafael.co.il/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Silver-Sparrow.pdf).

EDIT 1: On the ABM capacity of the Aster 30 Block 0: http://forcesoperations.com/ankara-sen-remet-a-eurosam-pour-la-definition-de-son-futur-systeme-anti-missiles-et-anti-aerien/

"le missile Aster-30 du système SAMP/T [...] capable de contrer les intrusions [... ]de missiles balistiques d’une portée inférieure à 600KM. [...] Pour rappel, Eurosam développe depuis deux ans maintenant le missile Aster 30 Block 1 NT, une version évoluée du missile qui permettra au système SAMP/T d’accroitre le périmètre du théâtre protégé au sol et d’augmenter ses capacités contre les missiles de moyenne portée (1300-1500 km)."

A rough translation:

"The Aster 30 missile is able to engage ballistic missiles with a range inferior to 600km. As a reminder, Eurosam has been developping since two years now the Aster 30 Block 1 NT, an advanced version of the missle, which will allow the SAMP/T to increase the protected area and to improve its capabilities against missiles in the 1300-1500km range."

I'll edit this post if I find more.

[LMPT]

Unrelated to the Aster 30: another inaccuracy.

The NSM/JSM missile has a dual way L16 datalink that allows for retargeting and more precise targeting while in flight. This can been seen here:

https://ndiastorage.blob.core.usgovcloudapi.net

Or here:

http://www.deagel.com/Offensive-Weapons/NSM_a001123001.aspx

Ingame, both the NSM and JSM are using inertial guidance only until they reach their sensor activation point.

[Dimitris]

Can you please post this on the DB requests thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=3436106

It becomes very difficult to keep track of DB items if we have to hunt them all over the web. Thanks!

[LMPT]

Will do. :)
I was not aware that such a thread existed.