Noob question: How "invisible" B-2 really is?

[Kitsune]

I am currently playing "Kuril Island' 1999" scenario. Basically, it is about taking back the four small islands on the north of Japan from Russia.

So, things were good (10 MiGs shoot down with only 1 casuality, a JMSDF F-16) until I tried out the famous B-2 Spirits. My idea was to keep the rest of the MiGs busy with F-16, and sneakly attack the two Russian Radars that I concluded were the "eyes" of their force from the north.

Thing is, as soon as I approached the island, I was immediately discovered by two MiGs 31. So they somehow detected me.

As far as I know, in the area Russians have two long range radars: P-80 and P-70, and some less powerful equipment connected to S-300 missile system (Clam shell and flap lid B). My question is, how can I stay invisible? Is it about altitude or speed? And in general, how do you utilize b-2s? And should I escort them even though they are supposed to be stealth?

[Cavin]

Stealth Aircraft effectively reduce the range at which they can be detected. They are not "invisible", but they can get closer to radar sites without being detected, as opposed to non-stealth aircraft. Sometimes they can get a LOT closer.

The B-2 Is pretty stealthy. Just a few things to consider though. Was your radar on Active? Turning your radar on "Active" can give away your position to enemies. Sometimes it's just best to leave your Radar on Passive mode.

You also mentioned Speed/Altitude. Going above Subsonic speeds, (going faster than the speed of sound) can give away your location due to the Sonic boom that is created. Speed however is not usually a huge factor in determining stealth. Also while technically altitude effects your detection it's not in the way you may think. Unless you are a member of the flat earth society than you should realise the Earth is round. Flying low can allow you to "Fly below the radar" or in more appropriate terms "hide behind the earths curvature". Although with that in mind, i would not fly a B-2 Bomber very low, as that sharply decreases your range, and given the B-2 Bomber is already pretty stealthy you wouldn't get a huge advantage. Just fly your bombers at normal altitude.




Finally.... i was curious what the problem was so i launched the scenerio myself. I felt i was able to get pretty close to the airfield (15-20 Miles) before being detected.

However i think i found where you messed up. The Russians had some pretty intense Air Patrols. And you claim you were shot down by a fighter jet. You should know of a sensor in this game called the "MK 1 Eyeball", and it is on almost every Ship and Aircraft in the game with a detection range of 50 Miles. My guess is what happened is one of the Russian fighter Pilots visually saw you, and moved to shoot you down from there. One thing you can't forget is that no matter how stealthy your aircraft is on a radar screen, people can still see you with their eyes. If i could give some advice, you should make sure all enemy fighter jets are clear before sending in bombers next time.

[Kitsune]

Originally posted by Cavin:

Stealth Aircraft effectively reduce the range at which they can be detected. They are not "invisible", but they can get closer to radar sites without being detected, as opposed to non-stealth aircraft. Sometimes they can get a LOT closer.

The B-2 Is pretty stealthy. Just a few things to consider though. Was your radar on Active? Turning your radar on "Active" can give away your position to enemies. Sometimes it's just best to leave your Radar on Passive mode.

You also mentioned Speed/Altitude. Going above Subsonic speeds, (going faster than the speed of sound) can give away your location due to the Sonic boom that is created. Speed however is not usually a huge factor in determining stealth. Also while technically altitude effects your detection it's not in the way you may think. Unless you are a member of the flat earth society than you should realise the Earth is round. Flying low can allow you to "Fly below the radar" or in more appropriate terms "hide behind the earths curvature". Although with that in mind, i would not fly a B-2 Bomber very low, as that sharply decreases your range, and given the B-2 Bomber is already pretty stealthy you wouldn't get a huge advantage. Just fly your bombers at normal altitude.




Finally.... i was curious what the problem was so i launched the scenerio myself. I felt i was able to get pretty close to the airfield (15-20 Miles) before being detected.

However i think i found where you messed up. The Russians had some pretty intense Air Patrols. And you claim you were shot down by a fighter jet. You should know of a sensor in this game called the "MK 1 Eyeball", and it is on almost every Ship and Aircraft in the game with a detection range of 50 Miles. My guess is what happened is one of the Russian fighter Pilots visually saw you, and moved to shoot you down from there. One thing you can't forget is that no matter how stealthy your aircraft is on a radar screen, people can still see you with their eyes. If i could give some advice, you should make sure all enemy fighter jets are clear before sending in bombers next time.

Thank you for the detailed response. To be speciffic, my radar was off all the time. I totally agree that it was pretty stupid to send B-2s alone while enemy interceptors were still around.

I've checked the range again and yes, B-2s were within the 50 nm range of enemy fighters, so you may be right. But there is one "but": Do you think it was possible that they saw me from, lets say, 35 nm during the night? I purposefully send them over the enemy territory during the night.

[danb]

I don't think Command is currently supporting reduced night visibility, or reduced visibility in clouds/fog, someone please correct me if I'm wrong. I had the same problem with B2's in the Nightmare scen. of Chains of War.

[Dimitris]

It does.

[danb]

The scenarios I have played such as the Nightmare scen. of Chains of War, have the weather and night ops xed out on the scenario detail. That's why I thought it wasn't working.

[Kitsune]

Originally posted by danb:

The scenarios I have played such as the Nightmare scen. of Chains of War, have the weather and night ops xed out on the scenario detail. That's why I thought it wasn't working.

I'm glad that you mentioned it. What is with this startup screen? It seems that you can't switch it, and in 90% of the scenarios I've played either all is xed out or just the first one is green. Is there any way to change it? And if everything is xed, is that mean that all of the mentioned features are turned off?

EDIT: I just checked the editor and it seems that these settings are managed from the editor level. There are also some more advanced options avaliable after buying addons, and detailed aircraft damage is one of them. But what about the "Night & Weather Affect Air Ops" option? Is it on by default in any scenario and the window is just some relic from the older versions of the game?

[Dimitris]

"Night & Weather Affect Air Ops" is a feature still in development.

[danb]

So if it's still indevelopment, does that mean the Mk 1 eyeball still has a range of 50 miles at night?

[desrtfox071]

Originally posted by danb:

So if it's still indevelopment, does that mean the Mk 1 eyeball still has a range of 50 miles at night?

As an expansion of this question, are there any sensor/weapon systems that are currently affected by the day/night cycle?

[Kitsune]

Originally posted by danb:

So if it's still indevelopment, does that mean the Mk 1 eyeball still has a range of 50 miles at night?

Originally posted by desrtfox071:

Originally posted by danb:

So if it's still indevelopment, does that mean the Mk 1 eyeball still has a range of 50 miles at night?

As an expansion of this question, are there any sensor/weapon systems that are currently affected by the day/night cycle?

I second that questions. So, does the C:MANO support reduced visibility, or is this feature still in developement? Because I'm little confused now.

[Dimitris]

Originally posted by danb:

So if it's still indevelopment, does that mean the Mk 1 eyeball still has a range of 50 miles at night?

The feature still in development is "Night & Weather Affect Air Ops". This means that aircraft sorties will be affected by the local day/night & weather conditions. So for example, a day-only fighter like the early versions of the MiG-21 will not be able to take off in night or bad weather.

On the other hand, sensors and weapons are already affected by day/night and weather. Clouds block visibility (and lasers!), rain severely reduces IR sensor range (and even radar at certain frequency bands), wind & sea state mess up the surface duct so sonar ranges at surface or shallow depth are affected, and so on.

Hope this clarifies things.

[danb]

Thanks for the clarification.

[TheUnqle]

Resurrecting this thread. Is that feature still in Dev?

[Dimitris]

Originally posted by TheUnqle:

Resurrecting this thread. Is that feature still in Dev?

Yes. Doing the mechanics is easy. The hard part is making sure the AI is aware of the limitations and decides/acts accordingly. Otherwise all you do is handicap the virtual crews (both your own and your enemy's).

[pepe le moko]

Looking forward to this feature being implemented. I know my immersion levels dropped a little when I realised this was not in the game.