Keep getting owned on sub tutorial.

[Kolbex]

I skipped the first tutorial (air ops) and went straight to the second. All goes extremely according to plan for Phase 1 and 2, but the North Carolina always gets destroyed in Phase 3 (DDG and helo). The last time I specified for the NC to stay under the layer (380ft depth) in the Mission Editor while on station, but it popped up anyway. I tried to figure out how to fire some torpedo decoys, but no dice. The tutorial mission gives NO guidance on what to do, just says more or less, "Do the same thing you did the last two times". Obviously it is not working. Any tips?

[Dimitris]

Use the recorder tool (or play the tutorial in ScenEdit mode) so that you can switch sides and see when and how the enemy got a sniff on you.

[Nukkxx]

Some tips and discussion about the tutorial here...
https://steamcommunity.com/app/321410/discussions/0/490125737467770378/

[Nukkxx]

BTW, when I shift-F1 on the torpedo, I see all the countermeasures, decoys etc. But they are all set to "automatic fire" and I cannot find how to get them manual. Can't see the decoys in WRA screen .... does this mean decoys cannot be set on manual ?

[Dimitris]

Yes, decoys are deployed automatically when enemy weapons resolve their attacks.

[Nukkxx]

Thanks for this precision. But I think it should be made clearer that these things cannot be launched manually.
In fact I find this F-1 screen very confusing. It's never clear what to concretely do to be able to lanch this or that. I know that the manual has a couple of pages describing the situations and all possible messages but for example, if something cannot be launched manually, like these decoys, it should be made very clear in the shif-F1 screen (a different colour code for example).

[XenuTheEvilGalacticOverlord]

Yeah, I can't get through this tutorial, doesn't seem to matter what I do, closest is actually firing the torpedoes at the Udaloy before getting blown out of the water 30 seconds later.

[Nukkxx]

Originally posted by XenuTheEvilGalacticOverlord:

Yeah, I can't get through this tutorial, doesn't seem to matter what I do, closest is actually firing the torpedoes at the Udaloy before getting blown out of the water 30 seconds later.

My advise: don't focus too much on this tutorial. It's poorly designed. Move on. The goal here is just to make you learn things. Move on to better scenarios :-)

[Dimitris]

"Poorly designed"? The ASW helos are doing their job right, and that's a problem? Sure, whatever.

[Nukkxx]

yes it's poorly designed. It's a tutorial but there's nothing to learn from part 3 except taking a torpedo and sinking. Well, in itself it's already a good lesson :-)
But don't worry dude, it's not the end of the world :-) You shouldn't take things so personally :-)

[Flanker]

Tried this out a few times and it highlights a couple of things that the designer I suspect intended!

The Udaloy is rightly the hardest target with dipping sonars a real threat. These are less likely to pick you up if you vary the depth a lot though.
Same goes with the attack on the Udaloy itself, its easy enough to get that, however its also easy to get hit by a counterattack especially from the helicopters. If you always assume that a torpedo attack probably reveals your position that helps, basically launch, change course and change depth works.

[XenuTheEvilGalacticOverlord]

Originally posted by Flanker:

Tried this out a few times and it highlights a couple of things that the designer I suspect intended!

The Udaloy is rightly the hardest target with dipping sonars a real threat. These are less likely to pick you up if you vary the depth a lot though.
Same goes with the attack on the Udaloy itself, its easy enough to get that, however its also easy to get hit by a counterattack especially from the helicopters. If you always assume that a torpedo attack probably reveals your position that helps, basically launch, change course and change depth works.

That causes a lot of micromanaging on a cluttered and confusing manual UI, why doesn't the AI just automatically clear the Datum like any competent skipper?

[Dimitris]

Originally posted by XenuTheEvilGalacticOverlord:

That causes a lot of micromanaging on a cluttered and confusing manual UI,

F3 to plot course, F2 to change throttle & depth (or simply right-click the unit and select the commands from the context menu)..

why doesn't the AI just automatically clear the Datum like any competent skipper?

For every single case where it makes sense to fire and clear datum, there are ten other cases where it's not the best course of action. The trap of super-optimizing the AI for one specific situation is that you can easily break it for any other predicament.

[vat hom flaffie]

Trying the mission now myself and finding the mk48 torpedoes pretty useless. They have the Udaloy well within their detection arc yet still can't pick it up. They only pick it up if it's directly ahead of them using the F3 waypoint to guide them in. I prefer not to use that method when having turned away to simulate breaking the guiding wire which the game doesn't simulate

[Holmanix]

I managed to compete stage 3 by creating the mission as instructed but leaving the sub unallocated. I then plotted a manual course to the middle of the mission zone and manually set the depth to just below the layer and manually slowed down to a creep before I entered the mission zone (cruised to it up to that point). I then crept up to the enemy ship until I was right by it and only then did I add the sub to the patrol mission (I also set the depth and throttle back to auto at this point). I breifly saw the chopper show up over the other side of the mission zone after the ship went down but it was way to far off to defend it.

[deadlinegrunt]

Dimitris is correct. This tutorial is not flawed. It's actually the best tutorial yet I have done thus far. Your thinking and approach is flawed. I have struggled with this tutorial scenario for about a week when it finally hit me: subs = stealth. If you are being spotted, you are doing it wrong. I can breeze through this tutorial using AI control, micro managing the sub, etc. The strategy, and I believe the point of the tutorial itself, is to make you realize stealth is the key aspect of a sub so use this in your tactical approach and plan to the strength of your resource.

There are numerous ways to breeze through this tutorial but the only strategy that works is utilizing stealth. Overlooking this and you'll find the are even more ways to get owned.