Good idea, disgusting implementation.

[SilverShaman]

Played the demo. No graphics, okay, that's the industry norm. Plants take over the map in 1.5 minutes. Okay. Your tanks don't do any damage at all. They just shoot at the plants, and they grow at the SAME RATE as they die. It feels like you're hitting a brick wall with a plastic hammer.

The prices for artillery are sky-high. But it doesn't matter, because there is no point in buying anything other than artillery. Everything else just doesn't work. But even if you use artillery, it's still pain in ***. Because automatic fire shoots... I don't understand where. You have to manually click on each target. Otherwise, you'll just end up standing in a circle. Awesome idea.

There are 3 flowers on the test level. You know what's the best part? You can't leave the base until you destroy all 3. And that's victory. As soon as one flower is destroyed, the others instantly take over its territory. How to capture new mines at the same time - I don’t know...

That is, the entire gameplay comes down to 40 minutes of sitting at the base, building 4-6 artillery pieces and a pack of light tanks, and then slowly and stupidly grinding the roots, one by one. With manual aiming. Why waste time on this - I don't know.

Great idea, nothing needs to be changed. You are doomed to success (no).

P.S. The solar booster is completely pointless. It only affects 6 panels, at a cost of 250 coins. 6 panels cost 360 coins. + Cost of research. So some economic sense begins after 3-4 packs of batteries.

P.S.S. Tanks get stuck ALL THE TIME. ALL THE TIME.

[Chilled Sloth]

I cleared the demo map in 10:30 min with just light tanks, zero defenses and no research - even just the 4 starting tanks suffice to destroy 1 out 3 plants outright, then hem in another until you've produced more tanks. So I really don't see what you're saying about the damage of the tanks - I just came to steam to report the exact opposite, they're way OP.

It does take microing the tanks though... but, I mean, it's an RTS, not just a base builder, auto-battler.

I agree that the balance of many things is off. The processing plant just drains your deposits faster and must be placed centrally. Even without research costs considered it'd be pointless. The solar booster can of course touch 8, not 6 panels, giving you the equivalent of 480 coins for 250 and less space required. As is common, you cannot click buildings you cannot yet build, and it doesn't mention the blueprint à la 4x8 for the solar booster - that allows only players that had previously unlocked them to plan ahead.

I guess if the light tanks could merely slow down the enemy (without needing to be babysat), the mines would run out and force you to capture more real estate, use research to turn the tide, rely on defenses until then.

Still, I think the enemies need a lot more tricks up their proverbial sleeve to pose not just a challenge, but an interesting puzzle to solve on varying maps.

Maybe the devs should take a look at Mindustry for elements qol features that really elevate the gameplay.

[Wlerin]

Originally posted by SilverShaman:

P.S.S. Tanks get stuck ALL THE TIME. ALL THE TIME.

Have you tried not driving into the moss? That's pretty much the only threat the green kind presents.

While artillery is useful, it works best behind a wall of light tanks to keep the moss from encircling your position (and as the poster above mentions, with enough light tanks maybe you don't even need the artillery). Medium tanks seemed useful during my initial push northward but then became mostly irrelevant once artillery arrived.

Originally posted by SilverShaman:

How to capture new mines at the same time - I don’t know...

A swarm of light tanks works wonders, then solidify your position with turrets (no need for walls). Maybe bring a couple medium tanks to take care of tough branches.

[evilsplat]

Originally posted by SilverShaman:

Played the demo. No graphics, okay, that's the industry norm. Plants take over the map in 1.5 minutes. Okay. Your tanks don't do any damage at all. They just shoot at the plants, and they grow at the SAME RATE as they die. It feels like you're hitting a brick wall with a plastic hammer.

The prices for artillery are sky-high. But it doesn't matter, because there is no point in buying anything other than artillery. Everything else just doesn't work. But even if you use artillery, it's still pain in ***. Because automatic fire shoots... I don't understand where. You have to manually click on each target. Otherwise, you'll just end up standing in a circle. Awesome idea.

There are 3 flowers on the test level. You know what's the best part? You can't leave the base until you destroy all 3. And that's victory. As soon as one flower is destroyed, the others instantly take over its territory. How to capture new mines at the same time - I don’t know...

That is, the entire gameplay comes down to 40 minutes of sitting at the base, building 4-6 artillery pieces and a pack of light tanks, and then slowly and stupidly grinding the roots, one by one. With manual aiming. Why waste time on this - I don't know.

Great idea, nothing needs to be changed. You are doomed to success (no).

P.S. The solar booster is completely pointless. It only affects 6 panels, at a cost of 250 coins. 6 panels cost 360 coins. + Cost of research. So some economic sense begins after 3-4 packs of batteries.

P.S.S. Tanks get stuck ALL THE TIME. ALL THE TIME.

each unit has things it's strong and weak against, the heavy tanks one or two shot the trunks, while the artillery is certainly nice for dealing with the flowers I would hardly say it's necessary

[kknd]

Originally posted by μ 'n' I:

I cleared the demo map in 10:30 min with just light tanks, zero defenses and no research - even just the 4 starting tanks suffice to destroy 1 out 3 plants outright, then hem in another until you've produced more tanks. So I really don't see what you're saying about the damage of the tanks - I just came to steam to report the exact opposite, they're way OP.

It does take microing the tanks though... but, I mean, it's an RTS, not just a base builder, auto-battler.

I agree that the balance of many things is off. The processing plant just drains your deposits faster and must be placed centrally. Even without research costs considered it'd be pointless. The solar booster can of course touch 8, not 6 panels, giving you the equivalent of 480 coins for 250 and less space required. As is common, you cannot click buildings you cannot yet build, and it doesn't mention the blueprint à la 4x8 for the solar booster - that allows only players that had previously unlocked them to plan ahead.

I guess if the light tanks could merely slow down the enemy (without needing to be babysat), the mines would run out and force you to capture more real estate, use research to turn the tide, rely on defenses until then.

Still, I think the enemies need a lot more tricks up their proverbial sleeve to pose not just a challenge, but an interesting puzzle to solve on varying maps.

Maybe the devs should take a look at Mindustry for elements qol features that really elevate the gameplay.

I have to say, I was extremely disappointed in the processing plant. I assumed it would increase efficiency, meaning more minerals out of the same patch, since they deplete and it's so expensive. It also sucks that it doesn't mine under itself either. It's an enormous expense to try and speed run being broke.

An option worth considering might be to keep mineral patches around in a depleted state, and let the mines make a minimal amount of resources, with the processing plant massively increasing that output. That would turn it into a resource generating tool instead of a money pit.

The power substation basically reveals that power doesn't have enough to do. You either already have enough solar/adv solar or you don't and floating power does you little good. Might be worth rolling Substation into the advanced solar research.

I suppose if I try the demo level again I'll give a light tank rush a shot, if only to see how well it works. (and if I can off that pink jerk to make the rest smooth sailing.)

Oh and economically, 80 for an MG turret vs 100 for a light tank is not in the turret's favor, since we can't recycle them for 100% of cost while the tank can always be moved later.

[The Seraph of Tomorrow]

Originally posted by kknd:

I suppose if I try the demo level again I'll give a light tank rush a shot, if only to see how well it works. (and if I can off that pink jerk to make the rest smooth sailing.)

Speaking from experience you can 100% zerg rush any 1 of the Calyx at the start of the level if you spawn your base fairly close to it since the 4 starting lights can gun it down fast enough.

In my 2nd run I got the idea to try spawn camping the pink and it worked, which is why I proposed the city ruins idea in my demo feedback to make that sort of tactic not viable without making it seem arbitrary since a sapper unit would play a vital role in how you defeat the pods.

[Chilled Sloth]

Originally posted by kknd:

An option worth considering might be to keep mineral patches around in a depleted state, and let the mines make a minimal amount of resources, with the processing plant massively increasing that output. That would turn it into a resource generating tool instead of a money pit.

They do keep mining at 10% after depletion, so from 60/min down to 6/min (I only got to that point by continue playing for a bit after having won) - and the processing plant increased that to 9/min for those 7 or 8 I had touching it (by removing one of them).

If they go that way, I would make it a deep mining upgrade built per mine, maybe increasing it to 30/min or so.

Either way, once the game is balanced right, I think there should be an incentive to go out and reclaim territory with mineral patch on them.
That way, you could strategize how to reach spots that can be more easily defended and there's even an incentive not to take such a spot as your starting location, but leave it nearby for when your mines run out.

I think the most important part for this would be to make the plants much stronger the closer you get to their core, but weaker further away. Maybe they can mount an active defense, but it needs to travel through the roots from the core, taking time, allowing the player to attack on multiple fronts or using feints. But close to the core, that wouldn't work anymore.

Originally posted by kknd:

The power substation basically reveals that power doesn't have enough to do. You either already have enough solar/adv solar or you don't and floating power does you little good. Might be worth rolling Substation into the advanced solar research.

Absolutely.
I'm sure e.g. the battery would've helped with the inconstant drain from the launch pad - but simply building more solar panels was much cheaper. So even if they had more things drawing power, such balance needs to be revised.

Originally posted by kknd:

Oh and economically, 80 for an MG turret vs 100 for a light tank is not in the turret's favor, since we can't recycle them for 100% of cost while the tank can always be moved later.

Yeah, a good example why the balance favours rushing and being on the offensive in general. I guess if the light tanks were far less efficient than the MG turrets, it would be ok even at that price point. Or if tanks cost some coins too, not just minerals.

[Peptide]

Have you ever played an RTS game before? A lot of what you describe is just standard RTS / Base Building game mechanics.

If it was easy what would be the point? Tanks and light vehicles defends your artillery when the moss is closing in. The artillery shoots at the branches to kill the moss so you can advance. I spent about 40 minutes building up and pushing forward to the mine just north, then just steamrolled the AI in a counter clockwise motion with 2-3 artillery, 4 tanks and some light vehicles. Would have been quicker with 4 artillery. At that point I totally ignored all my base and production.

The plants taking over the area you just liberated is part of the challenge and its not a hard one. I built a wall immediately on killing the first, you can hold the choke point at the top of the map when you kill the second, then the 3rd is very close to 2 as you move down.

4 Artillery would make it light work. Didn't bother with upgrading any production buildings there's no point in this demo. Auto aiming of artillery and towers is the worst bit since they should be aiming as far out and preferring trunks not moss. That is your only legitimate complaint. Aim far, kill the trunk and all the moss dies back.

[Kaiser Williams]

4 light tanks and a medium tank can easily clear the narrower canyons, not to mention hold them. One medium tank on the ridge of the narrowest points can take out any trunks that snake through. Also, the substation can improve up to 8 solar panels, not only 6.

[SilverShaman]

Originally posted by Peptide:

Have you ever played an RTS game before? A lot of what you describe is just standard RTS / Base Building game mechanics..

They are billions on 800% , SC2 on brutal. The game is not difficult at all. It is very stupid in mechanics. And I have no desire to pretend that everything is fine. Quasimorph had the same problems in early versions. At least the developers there had enough brains to move away from the mechanics of one-shots from each enemy.

And I'm not going to answer everyone. I appreciate your faith in another indie that has a great chance of remaining a demo... but no ))

[Robot Joe]

what a ♥♥♥♥ headed attitude lol

[Wlerin]

Originally posted by kknd:

Oh and economically, 80 for an MG turret vs 100 for a light tank is not in the turret's favor, since we can't recycle them for 100% of cost while the tank can always be moved later.

There's no limit on turrets while there is a limit on vehicles (though ofc you can increase it and even one increase is probably sufficient for this map). Also the turrets seem to be more effective than the tanks, have more durability, can shoot over walls (not that you really need walls), and you will have static lines of defense for long periods.