Why this game failed, and how to fix it

[VEF215]

Not a hater thread, but this game has a couple things absolutely crippling it, here are some

1.) Its length, the game is incredibly short (people pay over $20 and don't want a 4 hour experience)

2.) 3D platforming and its camera issues = frustrating gameplay, missing jumps you thought you would make due to the perspective (platform is farther back or forward than you thought)

3.) Price (after experiencing 1 and 2, the price comes back to bite the customer in the ass)

4.) Progression. Trine 1 did player progression the best. You unlocked new abilities, and could choose to equip items you found for boosts. Trine 2 also did progression well with new abilities, but suffered from very poor collectibles (poems and pictures really?) Trine 3 there is 0 progression, which is very unsatisfying.

5.) Feels like it is set up for DLC. The game's abrupt ending and lack of content feels like the rest of the game will be sold piecemeal to the customer, which is very aggravating since the main experience was not satisfying.

6.) Bugs. The game has many bugs, the polish is not up to par, even after it has left early access.

There are other issues but you get the idea. As you can see I have NOT bought the game, because I am an informed customer, and I know of its issues.

How to fix it?

I honestly don't think it can be saved, the core, the foundation is too weak to stack anything else on top of it.

I do not know if the devs want to stay in the Trine universe, but if Trine 4 is to be made, it should be a mix of the best of Trine 1 and 2 (the last level of Trine 1 is imo the best Trine level ever made hands down), and stay a 2D platformer, why fix what isn't broken?

The move to 3D, while it had good intentions, has lead to more cons than pros unfortunately.

[Rucia]

I actually think the $20 was worth it. Considering the effort they went through to create such gorgeous scenery, cinematics and 3D platforming (I never had problems with jumps btw), I'm only saddened by them not completing it because of financial limitations.

If you've read the other threads, they're not going to release DLCs.

They were literally chopped at their knees from lack of funding, and it resulted in a gorgeous game with a brilliant idea, but had a few shortcomings. I believe that even if they were able to pay for all the bills, people would still come with complaints. No game is perfect, but I'm glad Frozenbyte decided not to rip us off and at least give us an open ending to hope for more to come.

[Meowella]

I vehemently disagree that the game is gorgeous or with a brilliant idea.

The idea is the same as Sonic 3d and tbh most of the 3d did remind me of the bonus rings stages in Sonic where you changed direction.

They did rip us off by running out of funding and releasing what they already had without completing the game. I loved Trine 2 but I'm not even bothering to complete Trine 3 it's such a letdown. Tbh I'd rather the company went bankrupt and closed so at least their behaviour would be justified.

[Smurky Turkey]

Originally posted by Phill:

I vehemently disagree that the game is gorgeous or with a brilliant idea.

The idea is the same as Sonic 3d and tbh most of the 3d did remind me of the bonus rings stages in Sonic where you changed direction.

They did rip us off by running out of funding and releasing what they already had without completing the game. I loved Trine 2 but I'm not even bothering to complete Trine 3 it's such a letdown. Tbh I'd rather the company went bankrupt and closed so at least their behaviour would be justified.

Although the term rip off is a bit harsh, I do feel some resentment for not mentioning the sudden ending or expected length before release at all. I still liked the game for what it was (even though I vastly prefer the previous two), but you can not tell me with a straigth face that nobody at Frozenbyte had the notion of mentioning what consumers were getting themselves into with a purchase. I honestly believe that the situation could have been vastly different with clear communication.

[*Caçador de GaMbOzInOs*]

I can't say if they made a Trine 4 without ending the third it's a good idea.
But at least the Devs should had listen to the true fans of the franchise!!
Like Sir Greymont said we play a game that should had more level story and less side-story, aside the other problems this game have.

Nowdays I can't say 20€ it's a huge price for what was made, the new visual concept it's more expensive than the previous titles, but this game would have achieve something like 30€ if it was completed.
In the end the price it's the less of their problems.

The camera was a problem in the begining now only on the side-quests i get a bit of frustration cause the floor sometimes it's tricky, and the camera movement it's not the best!!

They didn't balanced their budget (5 million like i read) with the game's lenght, and like they said before we will not have a dlc to conclude this story. From what we learned in the game this will be the last adventure of The Trio, but the game should have been finished when they closed the early access and not in a future trine game.
I think if they didn't spent time around the 10 side-quests and spliting the chapter 1 into 3 parts to create the illusion that the game was bigger, and made more 4 story levels in witch they included a tree skill this game would be awsome!!

Frozenbyte got my atention in 2009 when I bought the first game, I've played more than 50 times the game and it is always adictive, so what the heck happened with this title?

The game is pretty raw in everything, but had a promising story, it's the only thing that saves this game aside the graphics and cinematics!!

[Alcator]

Originally posted by Sir Greymont:

(the last level of Trine 1 is imo the best Trine level ever made hands down)

NOT TO BE A HATER BUT...

Do you even know how much criticism the Boss level of Trine 1 got upon release? The entire game, you're playing this lovely, at-your-own-pace exploration game, and suddenly, you are given a brutal time limit, unfair obstacles are thrown at you mid-jump, NO CHECKPOINTS until the very top... So, if you think it is the best trine level ever made (especially considering the competition of such marvels as Trine1 - Bramblestoke Village, Trine 2 - IceWarden Keep or Trine 2 - X7 - Dwarven Caverns), you are in a significant minority and your ability to argue for the MAJORITY/POPULAR opinion can be questioned. What I mean by that is that if I asked 100 people which level was their most liked from Trine series, you'd most likely be the only one to mention Tower of Sarek. So are you really the best to give recommendations on what to fix?

Yes, there was item collecting in Trine 1. But at the same time, you didn't get a fire arrow until Level 5 or 6, and you didn't get the Hammer until level 9. There was also MANA which was being drained quite quickly especially by Zoya's fire arrows. In Trine 2, they have given you all the weapons from the very beginning, and you could get PLANK already in Level 2. There was a significant increase of player freedom in Trine 2. The ability to choose different versions of skills, rather than just permanently upgrade the skills provided, was what brought T2 so much longevity.

The "4 hour of game (Trine 3)" value which is flying around these forums is (a) not typical, and (b) Trine games had huge replay value, because you could try collecting all experience points, or hunt the items/secrets, or try self-imposed limitations, or different skill combinations.

PRICE is a subjective thing. There's been an ongoing effort by companies to slowly raise the default "new game" price tag from 39 to 49 and now to 59 euros/dollars, and people don't seem to have a principial problem with that - just as our salaries have been given a bump in the last decade, it makes sense that prices of entertainment should get a price bump as well.

[#splitsgg]

I was very excited for a third installment of Trine, but disappointed to read that it was now 3D. One of the things that kept me loving Trine was the 2D gameplay as I have significant trouble with 3D gameplay :(

[Hunubul]

I played the whole game at my friends, it wasn't really long. I'll buy it for myself when I'll have the money.

Originally posted by Sir Greymont:

1.) Its length, the game is incredibly short (people pay over $20 and don't want a 4 hour experience)

Well the story is 4 hour, but you can play on community created map, which can add to your playtime a lot. Trine 1 and 2 story mode could be completed in a short time too, you had more playtime in them because you replayed them to get all XP, which you can do here too. In Trine 2 you also could download community created maps. So what's the problem?

Originally posted by Sir Greymont:

2.) 3D platforming and its camera issues = frustrating gameplay, missing jumps you thought you would make due to the perspective (platform is farther back or forward than you thought)

Not true. I've never had problems. I've only seen worse in this type of games. No camera issues at all. I've never missed a jump, but maybe I'm just too good? Maybe see the shadows, that'll help.

Originally posted by Sir Greymont:

3.) Price (after experiencing 1 and 2, the price comes back to bite the customer in the ♥♥♥)

Well half the price would be much better, but most games are worth much less that it's price. That's why sales exist. Trine 1 and 2 has an incredibly good price, but that shouldn't be expected especially from new games. I mean Trine 1 and 2 is old, that's why they are cheap, mostly.

Originally posted by Sir Greymont:

4.) Progression. Trine 1 did player progression the best. You unlocked new abilities, and could choose to equip items you found for boosts. Trine 2 also did progression well with new abilities, but suffered from very poor collectibles (poems and pictures really?) Trine 3 there is 0 progression, which is very unsatisfying.

I agree, 1 was best in character progression. But after the free content and DLCs Trine 2 got a really good skill system too.
Well in 3 there isn't any, that's true. But I don't see how they could've added it.

Originally posted by Sir Greymont:

5.) Feels like it is set up for DLC. The game's abrupt ending and lack of content feels like the rest of the game will be sold piecemeal to the customer, which is very aggravating since the main experience was not satisfying.

They already said it is the first episode out of 3. Whatch the news.

Originally posted by Sir Greymont:

6.) Bugs. The game has many bugs, the polish is not up to par, even after it has left early access.

There isn't THAT much bugs in the game. I've never really saw one to be fair.


All in all the game is pretty good, enjoyable. I didn't try any community maps. I didn't try the level editor either. And it's really hard to create a third game in the same style but better. Adding something new had to happen, but staying in 2d made that hard. I agree with them for going 3d, they made a good transition. It could've been better with more maps or cheaper, and with hero progression, but it's still good. Their job isn't that easy. People would be outraged if you'd get Trine 2 with new maps or new story. That's called DLC and they've released it already. I hope they conclude the story, but with all the haters they won't. Thanks guys.

And my favorite Trine 1 map was also the last. But I liked all Trine 2 map more.

[Ayy]

the reason for failure in this game is the fixed camera. In this day and age, putting a fixed camera is a sheer idiot design choice and one doomed to draw massive criticisim about control in gameplay. I looked at it and was like ugh...control looks iffy as hell with a static forced camera and...well i was right....if they allowed full control of camera with maybe different control schemes, it would be an unfinished game, but it would be an unfinished game that is nice to play(like MGSVTPP). However an unfinished game with a broken camera scheme is going to get flagged and torn up by everyone turning off tons of customers. I like FB, i just disagree so much with this design choice. I kept HOLDING out hope the camera scheme would be changed during EA...but it never happened and as a result i never bought it.


I still play T1 and T2 and pretend this never existed. cuz frankly if they implented the same enviroment and story in the original 2.5d format. I would be raving over how awesome the game is despite being unfinished.


TL;DR
Don't fix what ain't broke

[Topaz]

I haven't played much so far...just the intro levels. I was skeptical when Trine 3 was announced to be in 3d...because they are epic 2.5d games. I was curious as to the puzzles that the creative devs would come up with that could only be in 3d. Sadly, the gameplay is quite awkward...even mario-ish. The fact that pontius can hover...really? I have seen how clever you folks are! And wall jumps...what are we, MarioTrine?

I would possibly get used to the unintuitive button mappings (scrolling for the grappling hook and R and ? to move up and down maps with the boxes while staying stationary). From what folks are saying, the game is only 4 hours long which doesn't give you much time to do that.

Fixed camera, as mentioned above, is problematic in puzzle/collecting games because you assume the player thinks like you do. It's largely not the case. I also ended up with invisible walls in the first level when I tried to go around the ship - and it solved the puzzle for me by putting me on top. I don't anticipate this problem resolving in the future levels. In your previous games, there were multiple ways to do things and solve the area - not just one.

I really wish you had made another 2.5d Trine game...the 3d doesn't seem to have added much to your franchise and caused you a lot of problems that you didn't need.

[the_lone_ran9er]

Throwing my vote in here that while I have still 3 Levels left to finish the game, I have had no issue with the 3D platform element, nor camera angles, I like it. Also this graphics ♥♥♥♥♥ with a GTX 980Ti, and 3440x1440p display loves the graphics in this game. They meet my expectations for awesome graphics.

P.S... Add way more baddies into this game please. Not enough bad guys, and buff their HP in multiplayer mode.