Kate and David. What's with the Photo... [Spoilers?]

[Tenno Hyena]

So I get that it's a chosen place of divergence where they want to make the choices matter...

But why can't I take the picture Rewind and then just intervene. You've established I get to keep the the stuff I find when I rewind. So why don't I keep the photo of David harassing Kate AND get to intervene?

[Inject]

Yeah that was a little strange since you can do it with other stuff. Just a minor plot hole maybe? Or maybe Max doesn't want to make a rip in the time space contiuumm :P

[Zeptimus]

Originally posted by Ninja Turtle:

Originally posted by Tenno Hyena:

So I get that it's a chosen place of divergence where they want to make the choices matter...

But why can't I take the picture Rewind and then just intervene. You've established I get to keep the the stuff I find when I rewind. So why don't I keep the photo of David harassing Kate AND get to intervene?

I also wanted a picture of Victoria and then comfort her..
Because, reasons..

TIME PARADOX!

[D3ssel]

I thought about this for a while as well...

I might be wrong, but this is probably happening because, while you indeed can interact with objects that already existed before the rewind; you can't with objects that were created in another timeline (i.e Katie`s photo), since it was made in a future that never happened, which makes that specific time period non existent, consequently making the object itself non existent as well.

Apparently, DONTNOD's logic behind this is that you just can't take an object back with you to a timeline before it actually ever existed. So if you did take the picture and rewind time, you would end with nothing in your hand, since it never existed in the first place at the start of the rewind.

For example, Max did take a picture of the butterfly right at the beginning of LiS, but she had to take another pic, since the first one was completely gone. That's because it was created in a timeline that never existed, because of Max's rewind.

It's a bit confusing, but that's my 2 cents on the topic.

[Inject]

Originally posted by ☣MarcD☣:

I thought about this for a while as well...

I might be wrong, but this is probably happening because, while you indeed can interact with objects that already existed before the rewind; you can't with objects that were created in another timeline (i.e Katie`s photo), since it was made in a future that never happened, which makes that specific time period non existent, consequently making the object itself non existent as well.

Apparently, DONTNOD's logic behind this is that you just can't take an object back with you to a timeline before it actually ever existed. So if you did take the picture and rewind time, you would end with nothing in your hand, since it never existed in the first place at the start of the rewind.

For example, Max did take a picture of the butterfly right at the beginning of LiS, but she had to take another pic, since the first one was completely gone. That's because it was created in a timeline that never existed, because of Max's rewind.

It's a bit confusing, but that's my 2 cents on the topic.

I'd agree but I think I remember one thing in the game where this didn't apply tho I could be wrong and it could have just been a meaningless acheivement I don't remmeber.

[Tenno Hyena]

While that does sort of make some sense. It still flies in the face of the Idea of what is explicitly stated about. "You yourself are not effected by the twime shifting. You don't even change location when rewinding so you rewind despite being further along...

Anyway it does make more sense with that idea.

[D3ssel]

Originally posted by (=CG=) Inject:

I'd agree but I think I remember one thing in the game where this didn't apply tho I could be wrong and it could have just been a meaningless acheivement I don't remmeber.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't it when you can "rearrange" Victoria's pictures in her room, take a pic, and then rewind and keep it as it were? If so, it does indeed give you a Steam achievement, but, as long as I can remember, that pic you took is forever gone in the game (as if it never existed).

Originally posted by Tenno Hyena:

While that does sort of make some sense. It still flies in the face of the Idea of what is explicitly stated about. "You yourself are not effected by the twime shifting. You don't even change location when rewinding so you rewind despite being further along...

Anyway it does make more sense with that idea.

Max is not affected, nor is any object that already existed before she rewinds time. Since Max obviously always existed before she rewinds time, she herself will never be affected by said rewind (until now, that is. No idea if all this "time rewinding" will come at a price for her in the near future). That means that if an object already existed before Max rewinds time, she would indeed be able to keep it. If not, said object never existed in the first place, so it disappears the moment she rewinds back prior to said object's existence.

That actually brings us to a rather interesting (imho, at least) logical conclusion: If Max ever comes to "master" her rewind ability (if that is even possible, I should add), theoretically her limit would be the day she was born, since rewinding further than that would break this rule. Just something to think about, since there's nothing else to do until episode 2 comes up anyway, concerning LiS.

So yeah, no matter how good she ever gets at this rewinding business, she will never get to see a live dinosaur and such :P

Again, I`m not saying I agree or not with this line of thought, just trying to figure out what DONTNOD thinks about it.

[Robert the Bruce]

I guess you only keep the spirit of photos in your journal.

[Robert the Bruce]

Originally posted by (=CG=) Inject:

Yeah that was a little strange since you can do it with other stuff. Just a minor plot hole maybe? Or maybe Max doesn't want to make a rip in the time space contiuumm :P

Or maybe collectibles are held in a pocket dimension that you can place objects in and look at them, but can't retrieve them once you've put them there.

[Robert the Bruce]

Originally posted by ☣MarcD☣:

I thought about this for a while as well...

I might be wrong, but this is probably happening because, while you indeed can interact with objects that already existed before the rewind; you can't with objects that were created in another timeline (i.e Katie`s photo), since it was made in a future that never happened, which makes that specific time period non existent, consequently making the object itself non existent as well.

Apparently, DONTNOD's logic behind this is that you just can't take an object back with you to a timeline before it actually ever existed. So if you did take the picture and rewind time, you would end with nothing in your hand, since it never existed in the first place at the start of the rewind.

For example, Max did take a picture of the butterfly right at the beginning of LiS, but she had to take another pic, since the first one was completely gone. That's because it was created in a timeline that never existed, because of Max's rewind.

It's a bit confusing, but that's my 2 cents on the topic.

I'm sad that I ddn't figure this out myself. I've been dealing with time travel for a long time, even though it's all purely theoretical. I applaud you.

[Robert the Bruce]

Originally posted by ☣MarcD☣:

Originally posted by (=CG=) Inject:

I'd agree but I think I remember one thing in the game where this didn't apply tho I could be wrong and it could have just been a meaningless acheivement I don't remmeber.

If I'm not mistaken, isn't it when you can "rearrange" Victoria's pictures in her room, take a pic, and then rewind and keep it as it were? If so, it does indeed give you a Steam achievement, but, as long as I can remember, that pic you took is forever gone in the game (as if it never existed).

Originally posted by Tenno Hyena:

While that does sort of make some sense. It still flies in the face of the Idea of what is explicitly stated about. "You yourself are not effected by the twime shifting. You don't even change location when rewinding so you rewind despite being further along...

Anyway it does make more sense with that idea.

Max is not affected, nor is any object that already existed before she rewinds time. Since Max obviously always existed before she rewinds time, she herself will never be affected by said rewind (until now, that is. No idea if all this "time rewinding" will come at a price for her in the near future). That means that if an object already existed before Max rewinds time, she would indeed be able to keep it. If not, said object never existed in the first place, so it disappears the moment she rewinds back prior to said object's existence.

That actually brings us to a rather interesting (imho, at least) logical conclusion: If Max ever comes to "master" her rewind ability (if that is even possible, I should add), theoretically her limit would be the day she was born, since rewinding further than that would break this rule. Just something to think about, since there's nothing else to do until episode 2 comes up anyway, concerning LiS.

So yeah, no matter how good she ever gets at this rewinding business, she will never get to see a live dinosaur and such :P

Again, I`m not saying I agree or not with this line of thought, just trying to figure out what DONTNOD thinks about it.

Similar to Days of Future Past where Kitty's (or Wolverine's, for the film version) consciousness is sent to a younger version of her body in the past.

[Luxia]

And to make a breakdown here... Try printing Victoria's mail and rewinding. You keep it. Your theory is destroyed OR IT'S ANOTHER PLOT HOLE.

[D3ssel]

Originally posted by Raddenson11:

And to make a breakdown here... Try printing Victoria's mail and rewinding. You keep it. Your theory is destroyed :dealwithit: OR IT'S ANOTHER PLOT HOLE.

Yup, I can confirm this. Not sure if this lonely specific occurrence (can't honestly remember nor find another one in Episode 1, to tell you the truth) is enough to "destroy the theory" as you so eloquently put, but it surely seems like the fine people at DONTNOD did miss it, as you shouldn't be able to keep it after the rewind, or you should be able to keep everything else.

But, seriously enough, isn't this a bit of nick picking? I mean, if it happens only once in the whole episode 1, I guess we shouldn't be all that excited. Now, if someone do remember another occurrence like that one, then I got to start agreeing with you guys.

[joridiculous]

Originally posted by Raddenson11:

And to make a breakdown here... Try printing Victoria's mail and rewinding. You keep it. Your theory is destroyed :dealwithit: OR IT'S ANOTHER PLOT HOLE.

No. The letter exists even if you print it or not, just like the hammer. The photo doesnt. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff you know.

[Zarok]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vY_Ry8J_jdw

[Luxia]

Originally posted by joridiculous:

Originally posted by Raddenson11:

And to make a breakdown here... Try printing Victoria's mail and rewinding. You keep it. Your theory is destroyed OR IT'S ANOTHER PLOT HOLE.

No. The letter exists even if you print it or not, just like the hammer. The photo doesnt. Wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff you know.

Only thing that did exist is the paper sheet. The printed letters didn't.