Rachel -Doe- Theory (E4 Spoilers)

[Venoxxie TTV]

I believe Rachel is the Doe. Max says, while looking at the pictures of her from her binder in the Dark Room, "Why is he putting her in the ground like that? Where-" Chloe cuts her off and says "The Junkyard!" If that isn't proof enough idk what is. However there could be one thing that proves the Doe theory wrong. Maybe 2.

What if Rachel is working with Nathan and Mr. Jefferson? Personally, I hate to believe Nathan is apart of this. But when Kate described the Dark Room and she heard Nathan it's kind of hard to not think about him not being involved, unless he's being used by Mr. Jefferson. But after the way Jefferson killed Chloe I wouldn't be surprised if he killed Rachel and had Nathan bury her.

The other theory some people have had to counter the Doe theory is that Rachel is also a time traveler. And she is very much alive but in hiding. Or in an alternate timeline. I find it hard to believe. But that is just me.

Continuing on with my theory. During Episode 4 after Chloe and Max have reached the spot where they saw Nathan putting Rachel in the ground, they dig. They wonder "What is that?" and dig a bit more only to be struck with some god awful smell. The smell of a dead body of course. While Chloe curls up and cries, Max goes to comfort her. BUT WAIT! The screen zooms out from the two girls and what do we see? The Doe! It hangs its head and disappears as if to say "You finally found me... Thank you." and rests in peace knowing that someone finally knows the story. And might be able to do something about it.
And the Doe even previously showed itself in the Junkyard when Max was looking for bottles. As if MAYBE trying to show Max the spot but realizing it shouldn't interfere at the moment. Doubt Max would of even given too much thought to the Doe situation anyway.

[Kiro]

well i think everyone knew this

[Venoxxie TTV]

Well there are people who just want to believe Rachel is still alive. I'm just proving them wrong, I know that most people don't use logic or small details such as Max commenting on the picture in their theories.

[Valdyr]

The doe disappearing in that scene definitely lends to the interpretation that it's Rachel. But I'm not convinced, simply because Samuel says the doe is Max's spirit animal when she tells him about it. I trust Samuel implicitly. He fits into the weird fortuneteller/magical old man role, the character who seems disconnected or a bit slow in the head who nevertheless has mysterious knowledge there's no way a normal person could have. I think Samuel is the only "Voice of God" character in the game who speaks directly with the voice of the game's writer. Of course, I could be full of ♥♥♥♥ and he could be a total red herring...

edit: An example of the kind of character I'm talking about would be in Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, the thin-blood Malkavian fortuneteller on the beach in Santa Monica. She seems crazy and speaks only in cryptic prophecies, but after you've played through the game, if you think back to what she told you, she accurately describes everything that happens in the plot of the game. It just makes no sense until you've already experienced it.

[Cyvanhoe]

Or...

The Doe is in fact Max' spirit animal, and shows things to her. We first encounter it at the supposed 'dream' of the Tornado. Like the doe is showing her "Here, see? This is what happens."

Then at the Junkyard. Like "Here, see? This is where you need to look."

Then again at the Junkyard, after they found the body. Like "Ah, yep, there, you found it. Told you."

Don't get me wrong, I'm also down with the Doe being Rachels spirit too. But I kind of can't dismiss the possibility that it is as I just said also.

[Venoxxie TTV]

Originally posted by Valdyr:

The doe disappearing in that scene definitely lends to the interpretation that it's Rachel. But I'm not convinced, simply because Samuel says the doe is Max's spirit animal when she tells him about it. I trust Samuel implicitly. He fits into the weird fortuneteller/magical old man role, the character who seems disconnected or a bit slow in the head who nevertheless has mysterious knowledge there's no way a normal person could have. I think Samuel is the only "Voice of God" character in the game who speaks directly with the voice of the game's writer. Of course, I could be full of ♥♥♥♥ and he could be a total red herring...

It could be possible that if the Doe is Max's spirit animal but what if she sees Rachel as a Doe because of that reason?

Even if the Doe happens to not be Rachel in future episodes there are only two theories I could think of. One is what others thought of. One I thought of myself (I dunno if others have theorized about it). But there isn't much proof to show Rachel isn't dead aside from those 2 theories.

[Valdyr]

Originally posted by Cyvanhoe:

Or...

The Doe is in fact Max' spirit animal, and shows things to her. We first encounter it at the supposed 'dream' of the Tornado. Like the doe is showing her "Here, see? This is what happens."

Then at the Junkyard. Like "Here, see? This is where you need to look."

Then again at the Junkyard, after they found the body. Like "Ah, yep, there, you found it. Told you."

Don't get me wrong, I'm also down with the Doe being Rachels spirit too. But I kind of can't dismiss the possibility that it is as I just said also.

I'm doing another playthrough right now, and when Max sees the doe in the junkyard in episode 2, I think it's interesting that it keeps walking forward a bit and then looking back at her as if to say "Come on, follow me." But when it goes into the bushes/undergrowth and down the hill, Max loses interest. Makes me wonder if there was something important down there the doe was trying to help her find.

[Kiro]

Originally posted by Valdyr:

The doe disappearing in that scene definitely lends to the interpretation that it's Rachel. But I'm not convinced, simply because Samuel says the doe is Max's spirit animal when she tells him about it. I trust Samuel implicitly. He fits into the weird fortuneteller/magical old man role, the character who seems disconnected or a bit slow in the head who nevertheless has mysterious knowledge there's no way a normal person could have. I think Samuel is the only "Voice of God" character in the game who speaks directly with the voice of the game's writer. Of course, I could be full of ♥♥♥♥ and he could be a total red herring...

The doe can still be Max's 'spirit animal' even if it's Rachel. I mean, that's probably the reason why he said that in the first place, so when she saw the doe she would know she has perhaps a connection with it and pay more attention to it, as it was clearly trying to lead her to the answers.

[Valdyr]

Another weird thing about Samuel, you find pictures of Rachel in his utility shed, but if you go back at night in episode 3, you also find a woman's fancy scarf and some fashion magazines. I really don't think they belong to him. Was Rachel hiding out in there at some point with Samuel's help?

[Venoxxie TTV]

Originally posted by Valdyr:

Another weird thing about Samuel, you find pictures of Rachel in his utility shed, but if you go back at night in episode 3, you also find a woman's fancy scarf and some fashion magazines. I really don't think they belong to him. Was Rachel hiding out in there at some point with Samuel's help?

That could be possible. But why would he need pictures of her? Unless they were really close and wanted a memory of her. Maybe they hung out sometimes. But it wouldn't add or subtract from the theory I have of Rachel being the Doe.
He is weird, and he does seem like he knows a lot. It's possible he has powers too. Saw a another thread discussing cut dialogs from Nathan's fight scene with Warren. And he claimed to see the Storm. So maybe more than just Max have powers? Some people just might not realize it.

[Valdyr]

Originally posted by RivenSong:

Originally posted by Valdyr:

Another weird thing about Samuel, you find pictures of Rachel in his utility shed, but if you go back at night in episode 3, you also find a woman's fancy scarf and some fashion magazines. I really don't think they belong to him. Was Rachel hiding out in there at some point with Samuel's help?

That could be possible. But why would he need pictures of her? Unless they were really close and wanted a memory of her. Maybe they hung out sometimes. But it wouldn't add or subtract from the theory I have of Rachel being the Doe.
He is weird, and he does seem like he knows a lot. It's possible he has powers too. Saw a another thread discussing cut dialogs from Nathan's fight scene with Warren. And he claimed to see the Storm. So maybe more than just Max have powers? Some people just might not realize it.

There's evidence for Rachel being the doe, but let's not forget the bluejay. Rachel is wearing a bluejay feather charm in several of her photos. Chloe, who was crazy about her, started dyeing her hair blue after she disappeared. And on the morning after the swimming pool scene, when you end up getting dressed in some of Rachel's old clothes, if you go to the bathroom and take a selfie in the mirror, the bluejay (if you saved it before) just so happens to be perched on top of the shower, in-frame as Max takes a picture of herself wearing Rachel's clothes in Rachel's best friend's bathroom. Just something to think about.

Can somebody have multiple spirit animals?

[Venoxxie TTV]

Originally posted by Valdyr:

Originally posted by RivenSong:

That could be possible. But why would he need pictures of her? Unless they were really close and wanted a memory of her. Maybe they hung out sometimes. But it wouldn't add or subtract from the theory I have of Rachel being the Doe.
He is weird, and he does seem like he knows a lot. It's possible he has powers too. Saw a another thread discussing cut dialogs from Nathan's fight scene with Warren. And he claimed to see the Storm. So maybe more than just Max have powers? Some people just might not realize it.

There's evidence for Rachel being the doe, but let's not forget the bluejay. Rachel is wearing a bluejay feather charm in several of her photos. Chloe, who was crazy about her, started dyeing her hair blue after she disappeared. And on the morning after the swimming pool scene, when you end up getting dressed in some of Rachel's old clothes, if you go to the bathroom and take a selfie in the mirror, the bluejay (if you saved it before) just so happens to be perched on top of the shower, in-frame as Max takes a picture of herself wearing Rachel's clothes in Rachel's best friend's bathroom. Just something to think about.

Can somebody have multiple spirit animals?

Well the bluejay has not shown up as a spirit yet. The Doe actually had the appearance of a spirit/ghost. The bluejay could either be just a coinsidence or maybe it was her favorite animal. I mean, the butterfly was also blue in Episode 1.

[Valdyr]

Originally posted by RivenSong:

Well the bluejay has not shown up as a spirit yet. The Doe actually had the appearance of a spirit/ghost. The bluejay could either be just a coinsidence or maybe it was her favorite animal. I mean, the butterfly was also blue in Episode 1.

The weird thing is, the butterfly shows up in Max's photograph despite almost definitely being a spirit animal (Max all but outright says "this is a spirit butterfly, not a regular butterfly" if you use the Look option on it before taking the picture), but when you photograph the doe in the junkyard, the photo comes out as just an empty scene of grass and rocks. I wonder why only Max can see the doe, but the butterfly is "real" enough to show in a picture. Maybe by coincidence Max also happens to be crazy and the doe is just a hallucination not related to her power...

[obliviousmassacre]

Originally posted by A Latino Man's Shirt:

Originally posted by Valdyr:

The doe disappearing in that scene definitely lends to the interpretation that it's Rachel. But I'm not convinced, simply because Samuel says the doe is Max's spirit animal when she tells him about it. I trust Samuel implicitly. He fits into the weird fortuneteller/magical old man role, the character who seems disconnected or a bit slow in the head who nevertheless has mysterious knowledge there's no way a normal person could have. I think Samuel is the only "Voice of God" character in the game who speaks directly with the voice of the game's writer. Of course, I could be full of ♥♥♥♥ and he could be a total red herring...

The doe can still be Max's 'spirit animal' even if it's Rachel. I mean, that's probably the reason why he said that in the first place, so when she saw the doe she would know she has perhaps a connection with it and pay more attention to it, as it was clearly trying to lead her to the answers.

That's a very interesting theory. The doe is Max's spirit animal, but Rachel took the guise of a doe in order to get Max's attention. I like it.

[Venoxxie TTV]

Originally posted by Valdyr:

Originally posted by RivenSong:

Well the bluejay has not shown up as a spirit yet. The Doe actually had the appearance of a spirit/ghost. The bluejay could either be just a coinsidence or maybe it was her favorite animal. I mean, the butterfly was also blue in Episode 1.

The weird thing is, the butterfly shows up in Max's photograph despite almost definitely being a spirit animal (Max all but outright says "this is a spirit butterfly, not a regular butterfly" if you use the Look option on it before taking the picture), but when you photograph the doe in the junkyard, the photo comes out as just an empty scene of grass and rocks. I wonder why only Max can see the doe, but the butterfly is "real" enough to show in a picture. Maybe by coincidence Max also happens to be crazy and the doe is just a hallucination not related to her power...

Well the Butterfly is far from a spirit animal (in my opinion). Have you seen the title to Episode 1? And the "This action will have consequences." is a butterfly for an icon. It's linked to this little thing called The Butterfly Effect. The window was open in the bathroom so it is possible for a butterfly to just flutter in. But it flew in because Max ripped her picture. One decision leads to something else. Plus, that's really the only time the butterfly really shows up. So if the butterfly was the spirit animal then it's a completely crap one. But I doubt it is one.
But we can also tell Max is unsure of herself. Everytime she makes a major decision she second guesses herself. So it's possible she thought she was going crazy because a butterfly just happened to fly in.
And nothing major has been said about the bluejay either. It might have shown up more but... There's also the chance to let it stay dead. My first playthrough I didn't even know I could go into Joyce's room. So at the end when I saw that I let the bluejay die I was like "What bluejay?!"

[Alyx]

Originally posted by Cyvanhoe:

Or...

The Doe is in fact Max' spirit animal, and shows things to her. We first encounter it at the supposed 'dream' of the Tornado. Like the doe is showing her "Here, see? This is what happens."

Then at the Junkyard. Like "Here, see? This is where you need to look."

Then again at the Junkyard, after they found the body. Like "Ah, yep, there, you found it. Told you."

Don't get me wrong, I'm also down with the Doe being Rachels spirit too. But I kind of can't dismiss the possibility that it is as I just said also.

I completely agree. Well put.

Also, as I tried to explain to our 'Wax' guy many times before, functionally, it really doesn't matter all that much whether the Doe is Rachel directly, or that she's just being 'prompted' by Rachel's spirit to go help/guide Max solve the mystery: Rachel is dead in both cases, and the Doe is guiding Max.