how is Chloe linked to the storm?

[Barack Obama]

So the game's concept is the butterfly effect. So is Chloe living and one of her actions have some major butterfly effect that ends as the giant tornado? If so how would that be happening? Obviously Chloe dying makes the storm not happen. which means something had to be linked. Or is the game just showing us how the butterfly effect can effect everything?

[TreeTrunk]

Originally posted by Toph:

Originally posted by ManlyMan:

I just don't understand how that's possible though. How does that make sense? A girl doesn't die so an E6 tornado hits a town?

And how did Chloe cheat death? Max using her powers. While these two actions are obviously linked, they are not the same thing. Max is the cause of the storm, not Chloe.

Chloe is just part of the chain reaction of Max using her powers which eventually creates the storm that destroys Arcadia Bay. The term "butterfly effect" is derived from the metaphorical suggestion that something as seemly simple as a butterfly flapping its wings could create/influence the creation of a hurricane.

Using the same metaphor, Max is the butterfly and using her powers is her "flapping her wings."

Damn I didn't think of it that way, that actually makes a lot of sense.

[Toph]

Originally posted by {HxT} TreeTrunk:

Originally posted by ManlyMan:

I just don't understand how that's possible though. How does that make sense? A girl doesn't die so an E6 tornado hits a town?

Yeah she is supposed to die because of 'destiny' or whatever, but because she doesn't, a tornado is conjured slowly but surely to either finally kill her, or make up for her survival by causing lots of destruction to the town she lives in.

Hah, I seriously think you're allowing too many similar pieces of fiction infleunce your view instead of simply digesting the story that is given to you.

[TreeTrunk]

Originally posted by Toph:

Originally posted by {HxT} TreeTrunk:

Yeah she is supposed to die because of 'destiny' or whatever, but because she doesn't, a tornado is conjured slowly but surely to either finally kill her, or make up for her survival by causing lots of destruction to the town she lives in.

Hah, I seriously think you're allowing too many similar pieces of fiction infleunce your view instead of simply digesting the story that is given to you.

Yes I am definitely a little confused which is why I'm here reading all these threads. Max's powers causing the storm makes sense though so thanks for that.

[linkfire12]

Its a more comfortable idea for saving Chloe, its mean to blame Max things out of her control, people will survive, it looks very likely Chloe's family did, thats all good.

[Toph]

Originally posted by linkfire12:

Its a more comfortable idea for saving Chloe, its mean to blame Max things out of her control, people will survive, it looks very likely Chloe's family did, thats all good.

I don't believe the choice in the end is about right or wrong. Neither choice is ideal, but that's a major theme of the game; conscequences. So, you pick the choice that is easier to bear. Your own personal opinion of Chloe will likely infleunce this choice a great deal. :)

[Silenes]

Ok guys, first of all, for those who didn't play episode 5: SPOILER AHEAD (of course)




Here is my theory about the link between the storm and Chloe's fate. Of course, I’m open to hear any argument against it =). So take a cup of tea (or coffee), grab your reading glasses !
I think it comes down to the "basics" of the Butterfly Effect. Remember the blue butterfly in the bathroom when Max saves Chloe? It’s this little fella who is at the center of everything.

Going to Wikipedia, this is what we find on the Butterfly effect:

In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state. The name of the effect, coined by Edward Lorenz, is derived from the metaphorical example of the details of a hurricane (exact time of formation, exact path taken) being influenced by minor perturbations such as the flapping of the wings of a distant butterfly several weeks earlier.
[…]
The phrase refers to the idea that a butterfly's wings might create tiny changes in the atmosphere that may ultimately alter the path of a tornado or delay, accelerate or even prevent the occurrence of a tornado in another location . The butterfly does not power or directly create the tornado. The term is not intended to imply—as is often misconstrued—that the flap of the butterfly's wings causes the tornado. The flap of the wings is a part of the initial conditions; one set of conditions leads to a tornado while the other set of conditions doesn't. The flapping wing represents a small change in the initial condition of the system, which cascades to large-scale alterations of events (compare: domino effect). Had the butterfly not flapped its wings, the trajectory of the system might have been vastly different—it's possible that the set of conditions without the butterfly flapping its wings is the set that leads to a tornado.

Please note already that the butterfly’s wing flap can cause or prevent a tornado

In my opinion, by using the fire alarm to save Chloe, Max disturbed the butterfly (whether by drowning it, make it fly away, or act in a way that would have been differently if Max didn’t trigger the fire alarm). By doing this, the butterfly flapped its wing differently, thus preventing the butterfly to avoid the tornado from happening (or making the butterfly to cause the tornado: but I don’t agree with that role of the butterfly. For me, the butterfly wing flap in the reality where Chloe is shot was meant to avoid the tornado, which would have occurred in any other realities where Max acts to try to save Chloe, see my "sub-theories" below). So in other words, the storm is created by that key moment at the beginning of the game, not the fact that Max keeps changing other elements of the past.
I’m backing this idea with two scenes of the game I remember.

1°) In worlds where Chloe is shot dead by Jefferson, the storm still exists: if Chloe’s death was the only condition for the storm not to happen, then a bullet in the head should have stopped the tornado. Which was not the case.

2°) In the alternate reality where Chloe’s dad is saved, the storm does not exist (correct me on that one if I’m wrong, but I don’t remember seeing any sign of storm, though we can find dead birds in the backyard of Chloe’s house). That is because Max changed an event before the bathroom scene, thus changing all the other parameters (including our little butterfly’s wing flap) that would have led to a storm.

3°) Not so importantly at the end of the game, if you chose to sacrifice Chloe, you see that blue butterfly on the coffin, which makes me believe that it had an important role in the game (remember that the blue butterfly is often appearing).


I've also been wondering about the fact that Max had a vision of the tornado before she saves Chloe. Here it’s an important point (of view) to differentiate two sub-theories (oh gosh it’s getting complicated, I hope you guys still follow me).

The first sub theory would be that by saving Chloe with the firealarm, Max led the butterfly to cause the tornado. Which would mean that if Max tried to save Chloe another way, the butterfly would have flapped its wing differently, and no storm would have occurred. Simply put: no alarm = no tornado (whether Chloe ends up dead or stays alive). But I don’t believe in it since Max had that vision of the tornado before saving Chloe, meaning that if Max wasn't in the bathroom where Chloe got shot, the tornado would have still happened. Which leads me to the second sub-theory.

Second sub-theory: the tornado was supposed to happen. Here, since Max had the vision of the tornado (before meeting Chloe), it means that this tornado was supposed to happen in any other circumstances where Max does not stay passive in the bathroom. The blue butterfly is our “hero”, the only element that can avoid the tornado from happening. By not doing anything in the bathroom and hide, Max let the blue butterfly flap its wing in a way that avoids the tornado to form itself.


Again, I believe in the second one, mainly because of Max’s vision of the storm which means, IMO, that the tornado was supposed to happen: it had all the elements to be created (or maybe was already created). The only way to avoid the tornado was thus to “force” the butterfly to flap its wings in the only way that could save Arcadia Bay from the storm, i.e. by doing nothing in the bathroom and let Chloe die.

So what do you think =) ? Have a good day/night guys !

[Doesnotcompute83]

Originally posted by Silenes:

Ok guys, first of all, for those who didn't play episode 5: Spoilers ahead (of course)




Here is my theory about the link between the storm and Chloe's fate. Of course, I’m open to hear any argument against it =). So take a cup of tea (or coffee), grab your reading glasses !
I think it comes down to the "basics" of the Butterfly Effect. Remember the blue butterfly in the bathroom when Max saves Chloe? It’s this little fella who is at the center of everything.

Going to Wikipedia, this is what we find on the Butterfly effect:

In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions in which a small change in one state of a deterministic nonlinear system can result in large differences in a later state. The name of the effect, coined by Edward Lorenz, is derived from the metaphorical example of the details of a hurricane (exact time of formation, exact path taken) being influenced by minor perturbations such as the flapping of the wings of a distant butterfly several weeks earlier.
[…]
The phrase refers to the idea that a butterfly's wings might create tiny changes in the atmosphere that may ultimately alter the path of a tornado or delay, accelerate or even prevent the occurrence of a tornado in another location. The butterfly does not power or directly create the tornado. The term is not intended to imply—as is often misconstrued—that the flap of the butterfly's wings causes the tornado. The flap of the wings is a part of the initial conditions; one set of conditions leads to a tornado while the other set of conditions doesn't. The flapping wing represents a small change in the initial condition of the system, which cascades to large-scale alterations of events (compare: domino effect). Had the butterfly not flapped its wings, the trajectory of the system might have been vastly different—it's possible that the set of conditions without the butterfly flapping its wings is the set that leads to a tornado.

Please note already that the butterfly’s wing flap can cause or prevent a tornado

In my opinion, by using the fire alarm to save Chloe, Max disturbed the butterfly (whether by drowning it, make it fly away, or act in a way that would have been differently if Max didn’t trigger the fire alarm). By doing this, the butterfly flapped its wing differently, thus preventing the butterfly to avoid the tornado from happening (or making the butterfly to cause the tornado: but I don’t agree with that role of the butterfly. For me, the butterfly wing flap in the reality where Chloe is shot was meant to avoid the tornado, which would have occurred in any other realities where Max acts to try to save Chloe, see my "sub-theories" below). So in other words, the storm is created by that key moment at the beginning of the game, not the fact that Max keeps changing other elements of the past.
I’m backing this idea with two scenes of the game I remember.

1°) In worlds where Chloe is shot dead by Jefferson, the storm still exists: if Chloe’s death was the only condition for the storm not to happen, then a bullet in the head should have stopped the tornado. Which was not the case.

2°) In the alternate reality where Chloe’s dad is saved, the storm does not exist (correct me on that one if I’m wrong, but I don’t remember seeing any sign of storm, though we can find dead birds in the backyard of Chloe’s house). That is because Max changed an event before the bathroom scene, thus changing all the other parameters (including our little butterfly’s wing flap) that would have led to a storm.

3°) Not so importantly at the end of the game, if you chose to sacrifice Chloe, you see that blue butterfly on the coffin, which makes me believe that it had an important role in the game (remember that the blue butterfly is often appearing).


I've also been wondering about the fact that Max had a vision of the tornado before she saves Chloe. Here it’s an important point (of view) to differentiate two sub-theories (oh gosh it’s getting complicated, I hope you guys still follow me).

The first sub theory would be that by saving Chloe with the firealarm, Max led the butterfly to cause the tornado. Which would mean that if Max tried to save Chloe another way, the butterfly would have flapped its wing differently, and no storm would have occurred. Simply put: no alarm = no tornado (whether Chloe ends up dead or stays alive). But I don’t believe in it since Max had that vision of the tornado before saving Chloe, meaning that if Max wasn't in the bathroom where Chloe got shot, the tornado would have still happened. Which leads me to the second sub-theory.

Second sub-theory: the tornado was supposed to happen. Here, since Max had the vision of the tornado (before meeting Chloe), it means that this tornado was supposed to happen in any other circumstances where Max does not stay passive in the bathroom. The blue butterfly is our “hero”, the only element that can avoid the tornado from happening. By not doing anything in the bathroom and hide, Max let the blue butterfly flap its wing in a way that avoids the tornado to form itself.


Again, I believe in the second one, mainly because of Max’s vision of the storm which means, IMO, that the tornado was supposed to happen: it had all the elements to be created (or maybe was already created). The only way to avoid the tornado was thus to “force” the butterfly to flap its wings in the only way that could save Arcadia Bay from the storm, i.e. by doing nothing in the bathroom and let Chloe die.

So what do you think =) ? Have a good day/night guys !

I like your theory.

[Ail]

"Butterfly effect"

When you pull the fire-alarm the butterfly panics and flies out very quickly thus dislodging a lot of air with its powerfull wings.
This disloged air causes turbulences that after one week somehow develops into a huge tornado!

[Silenes]

Originally posted by Ail:

"Butterfly effect"

When you pull the fire-alarm the butterfly panics and flies out very quickly thus dislodging a lot of air with its powerfull wings.
This disloged air causes turbulences that after one week somehow develops into a huge tornado!

That's exactly my point =)

[Ail]

I read your point right after posting mine and felt like a copycat despite having come up with it independently.
Also I couldn't reverse time far enough to post it before you.

[Silenes]

Oh but I wasn't accusing you or anything : your post sums up what I was trying to explain !

[Wambo333]

If the bathroom scene/hitting the alarm is the only reason for the storm, why does it seem to get worse as Max keeps altering events like saving Kate.
It seems to build up, Snow -> eclipse -> whales/birds -> double moon.
When Max saves William the whales are dying but the bathroom scene never happened. So the universe is still messed up by her actions.

Still like your theory though :)

[TargetLost]

Like I see it:

The time rewinding mechanics causes the tornado and all the strange effects at a local space where the origin of the rewinding source is and not the butterfly. Tieme loop -> space vortex = tornado ..action and reaction. It's fictinal but it has some logic point.

Did you notice that when Max traveld back to the bathrom and did nothing that she didn't get any power? Without the power no source.. no tornado nothing can go wrong.

But yes in this case pulling the firealarm without the power should have been a solution except that this is a manipulation happening through a phot rewind therefore the rewind power was involved.

[tazamiga]

The game constantly tries to kill Chloe and as we learnt in the movie Final Destination don't mess with death :) when it has a plan. As Max keeps disrupting death's plan there are more and more consequences.
Did anyone else get freaked out in the school corridor part where you suddenly turn into Victoria i thought i was seeing things at first.

[Silenes]

Originally posted by Wambo333:

If the bathroom scene/hitting the alarm is the only reason for the storm, why does it seem to get worse as Max keeps altering events like saving Kate.
It seems to build up, Snow -> eclipse -> whales/birds -> double moon.
When Max saves William the whales are dying but the bathroom scene never happened. So the universe is still messed up by her actions.

Still like your theory though :)

The way I saw it was that all the events (snow, eclipse, animals etc.) were one same climatic
disaster caused by the butterfly (the tornado caused the animals to flee and which led for some weird reasons to the eclipse, the snow and all). But I never thought about seeing this the way you did (that these events could be "separate" and that the disaster was building up the more Max used her powers...) !
And I agree : my theory has a big flaw when you think about the dead animals in the past where William lives.
That game sure makes you think a lot lol !


@tazamiga :
Yes, the whole nightmare part was freaky... The discussion with Kate blaming you for not letting her died freaked me even more xD