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to be true.
Which it logically shouldnt be, as traveling to a point before your first timetravel would undo the ones that happened after: You remove the cause, thus the effect never happens.
Why was Max given this power? So she would go through hell to save her friend only to let her die in the end? I don't think so. Chloe had to live and Arcadia had to be sacrificed. It was slowly cooking in their heads throughout the story until they actually realized it in the end. That's why Max chooses to tear the photo, that's why Chloe doesn't protest, that's why they move quickly through town and leave it behind. They have accepted their destiny.
But then, I figured I should take a step back and look at things objectively. The choice is to trade one life that matters to the protagonist for the lives and homes of many in the town. Obviously the lives of many are the greater good in this situation, right?
And I almost chose to sacrifice Chloe, but stopped myself. What am I doing? I'm looking at a tornado. A giant force of nature that was created by my constant tampering with time... How can I hope to make things better by continuing to tamper with time? If things are ever going to return to normal, I have to stop. Max even said, right at the beginning of the whole speech at the lighthouse, she was trying to fix everything and only ended up causing death and destruction.
And what's more, we know that what she said was true. When she first made a huge leap back in time to change something, back in episode 3 to save William, she effectively erased all her other time tampering. In the new timeline she created, she never went into the bathroom, and she never had to save Chloe from Nathan and his gun. Which means she never actually learned she could reverse time in the first place and only knows she can because she was transported from a different future. And yet, in this new timeline, all the anomalies are still there: we hear on the news that the snow on a warm day still happened, the eclipse still happened, the animals still died.
So erasing all her other time tampering with one huge change like that wouldn't work. She'd go back to the bathroom and let Nathan shoot Chloe and then the storm would still come. The only way to keep things from getting any worse is to just stop using her power and let whatever bad things might happen to happen. Eventually, things will go back to normal (we hope), and that is the only logical course of action.
And so, I sacrificed Arcadia Bay, not out of a selfish desire to keep Chloe, but to preserve reality. Because ultimately, all of reality is much more important than the lives of those in the town.
but thats the whole point, you can´t undo timetraveling, the disturbance in time still excist (as you can clearly see in the game, the more you go back an changing, the more time itself collapsed. and like I said, you already were at a point in time before the orignal bathroom scene happened, shouln´t that have fixed everything? no it didn´t. the sacrifice chloe shouln´t work considering that all your timetravel caused disturbances in ALL timelines. the last timetravel itself should have **cked up the whole world. only Max know that it was real but so does the world and the universe. All the time your travels caused consequences to the universe itself, why not in this ending? big plothole...
I get what you say and what the developers had in mind with this ending, but they haven´t thought it trough.....
yeaaaahhhh you get what I said XD
that´s right.....there was no other way ;)
Saving William in Ep3 does prevent the bathroom scene, yes, but it is still a deviation from original time --> Storm happens
Going back into the bathroom and leaving Chloe to her fate, however, restores original time, with no deviations whatsoever --> No storm.
I do not wish to repeat myself from another thread, but I thought I demonstrated clearly to you how going back and letting Chloe die does not restores original timeline, as there still will be 3 or 4 changes that are not reversed by this time travel.
I remember this discussion. I still think that it actually does reverse these changes, by undoing your travels into the past, as I explained to you (but you sadly haven't responded since).
The only time travel that will remain is the very first rewind. However I have since come to think that the first time was a special occurence, to which normal rules do not apply, as it was neither a photo travel nor a normal rewind - Rewind does NOT change Max's position or possessions, and yet she was moved back into the class without the photo. A normal rewind should have resulted in her being in the bathroom much much earlier, and instantly, i. e. practically a teleport from the class to the bathroom.
The problem with saying that future changes the past (i.e. undoing the moment Max travelled back undoes the changes she did in the past) is that it immediately puts the whole game to a time paradox (I go back to the past and kill my father, therefore I have never been born, therefore I could not go back to the past and kill my father, therefore I have been born and so I went back to the past and killed my father etc etc). Basically every time travel that results in a change of the past would make it impossible to happen if we go by this logic.
Just some clear examples: After Max saves William, she goes to the future where she never discovered her time travel powers. That means she could not have gone back to the past to save William.
When Max travels back from SF to her room, she destroys her winning selfie. Therefore, the selfie could not have been in SF, and so Max had no way of returning to destroy her selfie.
When Max finally gets to the Diner to get Warren's photo, she travels back to the party and changes the future so that she never went to the Diner. Therefore, she never could have travelled back to the party.
Basically, for the whole game to work, we have no other choice but to accept that Max is never changing the past by changing the future. Or, in other words, you can only change what is yet to happen, but you can never change what already has happened (unless you travel back before it happened).
And so we get to the timeline where Max lets Chloe die. The majority of time changes are reverted simply because they were yet to happen (Max could not have travelled back to the party via a photo, because that party was still a distant future), but there are the three (or four, depending on our own theories) changes that are not reverted. (I'll just repeat them here for the sake of other participants).
Change #1 - Max destroyed the photo William took of her and Chloe when they were 13. In the original timeline, this photo was in Joyce's album and she gives it to Max, who then use it to travel back and save William. However, when going back again and letting William die, she destroys the photo, probably to ensure that no Max can ever do the same mistake. Since this obviously happens years before the bathroom scene, this is a change to the timeline that is not reverted by letting Chloe die.
Change #2 - Max destroyed her selfie that won the contest. In the original timeline, Max wants to give the photo to Jefferson in the first class we see, but then destroys it in the bathroom, only to see the blue butterfly. However, she destroyed the selfie when she returned back in time from SF, to repair the timeline (which she somewhat does, as she returns back to the Dark Room, only with her journal burnt). Again, since this happens at minimum hours before the bathroom scene, going back and letting Chloe die will not revert this change.
Change #3 - Max behaves differently from her first time in the bathroom. When Max goes to the bathroom the first time, after witnessing the shot, she runs out, shouts and reaches out with her hand. This all obviously does not happen when she goes back via the photo, as she simply sits down and cries.
Change #4 - This is only a possible change, since it itself ties to a player theory, which says that Max travels back to the bathroom using the second picture of the blue butterfly. This means that when she travels back, all her first time rewinds already happend. First she destroyed and repaired her camera (both were caused by time travel though, so this change didn't happen), but then she answers Jefferson's question, an answer that Victoria gave originally. So if we accept this theory, Victoria not being able to answer the question is another change that is not reversed by Max going back to the bathroom.
And so, at least for me, it seems strange that the tornado is caused only and exclusively by Chloe not dying in the bathroom, when her other death does not prevent the tornado and the tornado also does not mind other changes to the timeline. A hella picky tornado, I have to say.
After Max saves William she does indeed create a future where she cannot timetravel. But this does not matter, because she IS IN THAT TIME. Her discovering time travel never happened. But neither did the accident, so she doesnt need it. Same with all the other examples.
She can revert it though because, due to her power, Max remembers everything, even if it never happened.
Basically you have to take the time and reality Max is currently in as the only real one, with all the alternatives being just that - alternatives.
Of course it's like that, and it's always like that. Whether she saves William or lets Chloe die changes nothing in the past, becasuse she is, as you said, in that time.
Edit: I'll think we should just write down all the various timelines she hops through, that should make it clear. On it.
But time can only go forward, not backwards. From the moment she changes something in the past, all the other futures include that change. Once she rips the photo William took, the future where Chloe lives contains that change. The future where Chloe is killed by Jefferson contains that change. The future where Max goes to SF contains that change. The future where Max goes back to the party contains that change. And, yes, the future where Max lets Chloe die in the bathroom contains that change as well.