Some of the crazy theories!

[PrOxAnto]

So ... I've been following this game since episode 1, watching playthroughs etc.
As I'm a BIG fan of this kind of "sci-fi", time travel etc ...
One thing I liked to do was make some theories, some of them were;

- Rachel being Max all along, Max came from a different timeline (something like that)
- The homeless lady behind the Two Whales Diner was Max from the future, potentially helping her with her quest to find out what's going on etc.
- What we're experiencing as Max has already happened and will not make a difference in the end.

I had a few more whilst watching episode after episode as they were released, cant really remember them at the moment though ^^

What were some of your crazy theories as the game went along?

[321polorex123]

What I'm curious about is Nathan's sister, Kristine Prescott. As we learn from an email from her to Nathan, she serves in the Peace Corps in Bracil. Also, as far as we know, she is friendly and seriously cares for her brother, which is pretty the opposite from the other members of the family (I mean Sean, we don't know how Nathan's personality would be without the bad influences on him).
When you think about it, why the hell would she serve in the Peace Corps at the end of the world while she would have all other possibilities in the world? My guess is that eigther Sean wanted her out of the way (maybe because he doesn't like her or she had a "too good" influence on Nathan) or she wanted to leave her messed up life with her psycho family behind her and go somewhere where she can help people and forget about Arcadia Bay.

What do you guys think about this?

[Alyx]

Messaggio originale di Makesin:

Messaggio originale di Alyx:

Would be nice. But they got my hopes up once already. 'Fool me once' and all that.

While generaly I'd agree with that sentiment, explaining stuff through a commentary to an already finished game is hella easier than trying to explain it through the actual game when both the budget and time are pressing on you. So I still have my hopes for that.

+1 for excellent use of 'hella' :)

Messaggio originale di Alyx:

His dad has sent him to a psychiatrist (there's evidence for that in the audio files), who just thinks he's crazy, and put him on heavy meds.

I think there's a letter from the psychiatrist saying that Nathan's problems rise from his relationship with his parents and that without the parents' assistance, there's little he can do apart of giving him meds. Though, of course, that doesn't mean that the psychiatrist isn't mistaken.

No self-respecting psychiatrist would ever take proscopic visions really seriously (or simply understand them, for that matter), lest he wind up in a padded room himself. :) So he just chalks it off as a generic 'parent issues' diagnose.

I don't think Nathan's dad really had a say in the meds, btw (but didn't mind, really, as he knows his son isn't exactly stable); but nonetheless figured out his son's visions had significance.

[Alyx]

Messaggio originale di 321polorex123:

What I'm curious about is Nathan's sister, Kristine Prescott. As we learn from an email from her to Nathan, she serves in the Peace Corps in Bracil. Also, as far as we know, she is friendly and seriously cares for her brother, which is pretty the opposite from the other members of the family (I mean Sean, we don't know how Nathan's personality would be without the bad influences on him).
When you think about it, why the hell would she serve in the Peace Corps at the end of the world while she would have all other possibilities in the world? My guess is that eigther Sean wanted her out of the way (maybe because he doesn't like her or she had a "too good" influence on Nathan) or she wanted to leave her messed up life with her psycho family behind her and go somewhere where she can help people and forget about Arcadia Bay.

What do you guys think about this?

My money is on the latter: she probably wanted to get the f* out if that sick town, away from her fubarred family, as far as she could. Being a kind-hearted person, she obviously cares about her troubled brother.

[Makesin]

Messaggio originale di Alyx:

Messaggio originale di Makesin:

No self-respecting psychiatrist would ever take proscopic visions really seriously (or simply understand them, for that matter), lest he wind up in a padded room himself. :) So he just chalks it off as a generic 'parent issues' diagnose.

I don't think Nathan's dad really had a say in the meds, btw (but didn't mind, really, as he knows his son isn't exactly stable); but nonetheless figured out his son's visions had significance.

My point wasn't that Sean had any say in the meds, but rather that the psychiatrist had no other choice because Nathan's family ignored anything the psychiatrist told them (or so the latter, which I think is in the Dark Room in Episode 4, states, if memory serves me right). So it makes me wonder how much would the Prescotts believe in some prophetic dreams of their son if they can't even be bothered to talk with his psychiatrist.

[Alyx]

My point about Sean likely having had no say in the meds was merely because -- reading back my own words, earlier -- I realized I might have given off the impression that he had had ordered the meds, somehow.

As for Sean Prescott not letting on to the psychiatrist what he thinks about his son's visions, I don't think that necesarrily means a lot. He's a business man, though, and probably decides to play it on the safe side. Plus, don't discount a dirty conscience. :) He knows he's guilty of any number of despicable things, so the idea of an impending 'reckoning' may not seem so foreign to him.

Also, keep in mind the storm happened ca. 20 years ago too (along with beached whales: an event after which, with almost absolute certainty, the '2 Whales Diner' was named). I don't recall any more, for the full 100%, but I think that chest Max finds, at the barn, contained documents stating the building of shelters was what made the Prescotts big to begin with. So, even if Sean may not really believe in catastrophic karmic event, or even that Nathan can foretell this part of the future, still, he figures that even hints to the storm occurring again may have been enough for him to built a new shelter, just in case.

P.S. Now I remember, that was actually one of my 'crazy' theories: that Max herself, on one of her travels back in time, had caused the storm of 2 decades ago too. :)

[Jeckenn]

Messaggio originale di Alyx:

Messaggio originale di Jeckenn:

I don't think Jefferson should have been the only person behind all of this. I think it should have been Nathan's father, Sean Prescott, and a long time ago he discovered that a female student at Blackwell always carries the time powers that Max currently has. (...)

This should have been why he built such an elaborate bunker and why he wanted some of the best photagraphy equimpent in the country installed there. Most of the other girls in the red binders should have been more or less explained and "experiments" to find out what Sean needed to be able to transfer the powers to his sone Nathan.

The Jefferson plot (capturing girls at the height of their innocence and beauty) sat, overall, reasonably well with me; but they could have done a lot more with it. Like you say, the Prescotts should have been involved somehow. An interesting twist would have been if Mr. Jefferson had been a Prescott himself (there were also indications for that in game). Or, like you say, have been hired for his son.

I think the time power should have had something to do with the Tobanga totem found outside the dorms, which is my attempt to explain why Max has time powers in the first place.

See my post above. :)

The reason it should have been Sean Prescott is why would someone spend nearly 1.4 million building a secret underground bunker and then abandon it to allow some sick psychopath to use it and kill his son in the process?

The problem lies with 'a long time ago he discovered that a female student at Blackwell always carries the time powers that Max currently has.' How would he have done that?! See, the problem with that premiss is, that only the time traveler would really ever know of any changes made in time. That is pretty ironclad. But Nathan, lest we forget, had proscopic visions too, recorded, on tape (sic!), by his shrink. (And while his father realized their significance, they chose to drug him for it, regardless).

So, while I think it's doubtful -- if not outright impossible -- for Sean Prescott to have known a girl at Blackwell had time traveling powers, still, his own son had rather detailed visions of the upcoming storm -- which is why I think he built the shelter: the Prescotts knew *something* cataclysmic was up (just not exactly what). And there's every reason, in-game, to believe Nathan got his visions directly from the Tobanga too (after all, remember, he tried to steal the Tobanga, earlier).

Interesting thread, btw. :) Let's do what Dontnod was unwilling to do: try and make sense of it all.

Yeah I know I did not explain well why SP would know that a girl at Blackwell always carries the time powers however having that is really just as plausible as Jefferson being the bad guy on his own like Dontnod did it. Also having him this famous photgrapher and part of his fame is creepy photo's of young girls in desperate circumstances would be a red flag for anyone investigating these abductions. I mean even if he had a couple of those types of pics displayed on his march to fame he would have been suspect #1 because all the adbucted girls were attending his class.

So any investigator would immediately put 1 + 1 together and come to the conclusion that Jefferson needs to be investigated. Think about it, apparently he drugged all the girls and then let them go, well except Rachel.

Anyway some if not all of those girls would end up having nightmares about their ordeal at the dark room, and one or more of them would eventually seek out a hypnotist to get to the bottom of why they are having these nightmares. As soon as one or more of the girls came forward then Jefferson would be under investigation and not by local police because it would likely escalate to an FBI investigation at that point.

Also bringing Nathan's "visions" of the coming storm into the picture if his father believed that to the point where he would spend nearly 1.4 million building that bunker, why would he forget he had it the one night he actually needed it? Why did he not at the very least show up at the dark room? He would have because as I said rich men do not throw away 1.4 million and then forget about the asset that cash got them and if they do act like that then they are either so rich they can literally burn money and it does not matter to them, or they are no longer rich men.

So SP built the bunker and then just squandered the asset and even somehow gave Jefferson access to it, either through his own son Nathan of maybe gave the code to Jefferson himself. Jefferson had to have the code to get in so how did he get it? The game story concludes that Nathan gave him access to the bunker however again SP must be a smart man to be able to gain the wealth he has, and he would likely know his son was going out to that family owned property and using the bunker and he would also likely want to know why.

Anyway there was so much pointing towards SP being involved in all of this, like the phone call Jefferson took when he was talking to Max about Kate. I guess that could have been Nathan but the conversation from Jefferson's side seemed to indicate that Jefferson was subordinate to whoever he was talking to and he would not talk at all like that to Nathan. The notes we found from SP to Nathan saying things like "don't ♥♥♥♥ it up" and "this can all be yours if you" seems to say that he is setting something up for Nathan that is not really legal but will be very benificial to him and SP.

[Makesin]

Messaggio originale di Jeckenn:

So any investigator would immediately put 1 + 1 together and come to the conclusion that Jefferson needs to be investigated. Think about it, apparently he drugged all the girls and then let them go, well except Rachel.

Anyway some if not all of those girls would end up having nightmares about their ordeal at the dark room, and one or more of them would eventually seek out a hypnotist to get to the bottom of why they are having these nightmares. As soon as one or more of the girls came forward then Jefferson would be under investigation and not by local police because it would likely escalate to an FBI investigation at that point.

I seriously doubt there would ever have been any investigation since, frankly, there never was anything to investigate. First, saying that every victim was from Jefferson's class is speculation. From all we know about Jefferson's and Nathan's plan, the main common point are the Vortex Club parties, where the abductions happen.

Second, No girl has ever gone missing (Max once looks at the ABPD web and sees that there hasn't been a single missing person for a decade prior to Rachel). As such, I'm sure that it all took just few hours, with Nathan drugging and driving a girl to the barn, Jefferson taking the pictures and then Nathan driving her home, all before the morning (as we know from Kate's description of the event).

Third, I also don't think the victims suffered from it all. I concur that the game has too short a span to judge that from Kate, but she suffers from depressions which were caused by the video and subsequent bullying, not some nightmares (I'm unsure here, do we know where that fateful party happened?) and even two days after her suicide attempt, she mentions nothing of that sort. Of course, absence of proof is not the proof of absence, but I'd just use Occam's razor here and look for the simplest explanation and that to me is that with the skilful use of alcohol and drugs, the victims suffered from no later effects, rather than try to explain that by saying that it's a loophole, or even suggesting that SP might have covered that up (which is not what you have suggested, just saying it as an example).

Messaggio originale di Jeckenn:

Also bringing Nathan's "visions" of the coming storm into the picture if his father believed that to the point where he would spend nearly 1.4 million building that bunker, why would he forget he had it the one night he actually needed it? Why did he not at the very least show up at the dark room? He would have because as I said rich men do not throw away 1.4 million and then forget about the asset that cash got them and if they do act like that then they are either so rich they can literally burn money and it does not matter to them, or they are no longer rich men.

So SP built the bunker and then just squandered the asset and even somehow gave Jefferson access to it, either through his own son Nathan of maybe gave the code to Jefferson himself. Jefferson had to have the code to get in so how did he get it? The game story concludes that Nathan gave him access to the bunker however again SP must be a smart man to be able to gain the wealth he has, and he would likely know his son was going out to that family owned property and using the bunker and he would also likely want to know why.

Again, I believe the game hints at Prescotts building several of these bunkers, with all it being publicly known. If then SP truly is a rich man scared of a natural disaster, nothing would be simpler for him than to build a bunker under his own mansion, to always have easy access. After all, that barn was not exactly easy to access from the town (if we are to believe the messages between Frank and Nathan during one of their drug deals).

I do agree that SP would most likely know about Nathan going into the bunker (the letter from Nathan's psychiatrist to SP being in the bunker even suggest that SP himself was in the bunker at least once) and so it's no far-fetching to suggest that he even knew about Jefferson and his hobby, but to be honest, stating that SP was somehow in charge of that whole operation seems to me to be a mostly baseless speculation. I'd rather suggest that SP's main interest in the whole deal was seeing that Jefferson was able to somewhat steer Nathan and as thus might have been using him to do that, since he wasn't able to influence his son on his own.

[Alyx]

Messaggio originale di Jeckenn:

Yeah I know I did not explain well why SP would know that a girl at Blackwell always carries the time powers however having that is really just as plausible as Jefferson being the bad guy on his own like Dontnod did it. Also having him this famous photgrapher and part of his fame is creepy photo's of young girls in desperate circumstances would be a red flag for anyone investigating these abductions. I mean even if he had a couple of those types of pics displayed on his march to fame he would have been suspect #1 because all the adbucted girls were attending his class. So any investigator would immediately put 1 + 1 together and come to the conclusion that Jefferson needs to be investigated. Think about it, apparently he drugged all the girls and then let them go, well except Rachel.

And people *did* figure it out. We, the players, that is. :) In Episode 1 already.

Anyway some if not all of those girls would end up having nightmares about their ordeal at the dark room, and one or more of them would eventually seek out a hypnotist to get to the bottom of why they are having these nightmares. As soon as one or more of the girls came forward then Jefferson would be under investigation and not by local police because it would likely escalate to an FBI investigation at that point.

All of that is true. Still doesn't explain how a non-time traveler can possibly *ever* know someone is having time-travel powers. It could only ever be inferred (indirectly); and then only in terms of 'odd coincidences,' like Rachel always knowing exactly the right thing to say. Most ppl don't immediately get 'Time traveler!' from that, though.

So SP built the bunker and then just squandered the asset and even somehow gave Jefferson access to it, either through his own son Nathan of maybe gave the code to Jefferson himself. Jefferson had to have the code to get in so how did he get it? The game story concludes that Nathan gave him access to the bunker however again SP must be a smart man to be able to gain the wealth he has, and he would likely know his son was going out to that family owned property and using the bunker and he would also likely want to know why.

It's most likely Sean Prescott knows *exactly* what that bunker is being used for. In his twisted mind, he probably supports his son having a new 'hobby,' and pretty much leaves him to it (provided he doesn't f* up, and endanger his position in the community as a respectable business man).

Anyway there was so much pointing towards SP being involved in all of this, like the phone call Jefferson took when he was talking to Max about Kate. I guess that could have been Nathan but the conversation from Jefferson's side seemed to indicate that Jefferson was subordinate to whoever he was talking to and he would not talk at all like that to Nathan. The notes we found from SP to Nathan saying things like "don't ♥♥♥♥ it up" and "this can all be yours if you" seems to say that he is setting something up for Nathan that is not really legal but will be very benificial to him and SP.

Yes, I too think that phonecall came from Sean Prescott. As for "this can all be yours if you," hard to know what he exactly meant with that. Personally, I still think he just meant Nathan one day inheriting his entire Estate. He basically gave Nathan a 'project' (= to support Mr. Jefferson) to try and see whether he can be even a bit responsible. And I think he simply hired Mr. Jefferson in the first place, because his son was interested in photography too.

[PrOxAnto]

At first I thought he was talking to Nathan aswell, but the way he answered some of the questions ... has to be someone in power for sure.
Sean Prescott was most likely the one on the phone.

Him being involved at all with any of it is just a really big posibility.

[gio]

Hi, I have a theory about the ending (the "sacrifice Chloe" one).
IMPORTANT: From now on, this comment contains spoiler of Bioshock Infinite and Donnie Darko, forgive me.
What if Chloe was meant to die since the beginning? Just like the chinese guy in Bioshock Infinite (sorry, I don't remember his name, Chen Li, maybe?), who dies in every possible Columbia, Chloe dies in every timeline we create: she dies in the bathroom in the "real" timeline, she is killed by Jefferson if we save her in the bathroom, she dies when we save her father (even if we choose not to help her to kill herself, she is going to die any way shortly), if what I said is true, then the tornado arrives because we saved somebody who had to die, like in the movie Donnie Darko: in Donnie Darko the "end of the world" is caused by the fact that Donnie survived when he was meant to die, in the end he realises this and chooses to die (at least, this was my interpretation of the facts), so I think it is for Chloe: she survives when she shouldn't and this causes the tornado (I know it's kind of simplistic). Even if we choose the other ending we have no guarantees that something like the tornado wouldn't occur again and anyway I think that Max wouldn't sacrifice Arcadia Bay and all her friends, because during the nightmare her friends (who - if it is a true nightmare - should be a representation of her subconcious) ask her why she decided to sacrifice them. In the end, I think that Max received the power not only to have a second chance with Chloe, but also to discover the truth about what happened to Rachel and to understand that Chloe death was necessary for the truth to come to light.
PS please, forgive me if what I wrote is confusing, I'm not a native speaker and I'm not very used to write in English
Bye!

[Shady Boots]

I also do watch and appreciate Mari from Geek Remix's theories about the game, and back then I totally agreed with her theory about the conspiracy between Jefferson, the Prescotts and Principal Wells.

Another theory of hers that mirrors my own is that the reason Max got her powers in the first place was so that she could spend those 5 days with Chloe one last time before she died--assuming the sacrifice Chloe ending was the canon one. Because Max never saw her again for all those years, I guess she got her powers so that she could have a last chance to save Chloe and spend time with her. The final choice was whether or not Max was ready to let go of her and let the universe run its course, or completely defy the universe to keep Chloe with her while risking other lives in the process. One thing I noted was, in the nightmare sequence of the last episode, we see Rachel's spirit in doe form go into the bathroom as Max is walking there, which makes me wonder if maybe Rachel was the one who gave Max her powers somehow, to allow her to be with Chloe one last time, and also to help her discover what happened to Rachel, because like what Chloe said, "without your power, we wouldn't have found her."

However there are some theories out there that I find absolutely ludicrous, like the one that said Rachel was involved with Jefferson with the whole drugged girls being photographed thing and they were in cahoots with each other. I thought that was complete and total bull. Rachel was a victim. End of.

And also all the people that were in denial about it being Rachel's body in episode 4, claiming it was Nathan. Max and Chloe would not have just ASSUMED that it was Rachel. Chloe would not have believed it unless she opened the body bag herself and actually saw Rachel's body. After she did, that was when she broke down, because there was the proof. Sure the game itself didn't show it, but of course it didn't, that would've been too graphic. It was like most people were clinging onto the idea that Rachel was still alive when she clearly wasn't. Would the story have been more interesting if she were alive? Probably. But I liked the direction that DONTNOD went with. It was very emotional.

[gio]

@ Very That you wrote exactly what I was thinking (but without being confusing) :)

[PrOxAnto]

Messaggio originale di gio:

Hi, I have a theory about the ending (the "sacrifice Chloe" one).
IMPORTANT: From now on, this comment contains spoiler of Bioshock Infinite and Donnie Darko, forgive me.
What if Chloe was meant to die since the beginning? Just like the chinese guy in Bioshock Infinite (sorry, I don't remember his name, Chen Li, maybe?), who dies in every possible Columbia, Chloe dies in every timeline we create: she dies in the bathroom in the "real" timeline, she is killed by Jefferson if we save her in the bathroom, she dies when we save her father (even if we choose not to help her to kill herself, she is going to die any way shortly), if what I said is true, then the tornado arrives because we saved somebody who had to die, like in the movie Donnie Darko: in Donnie Darko the "end of the world" is caused by the fact that Donnie survived when he was meant to die, in the end he realises this and chooses to die (at least, this was my interpretation of the facts), so I think it is for Chloe: she survives when she shouldn't and this causes the tornado (I know it's kind of simplistic). Even if we choose the other ending we have no guarantees that something like the tornado wouldn't occur again and anyway I think that Max wouldn't sacrifice Arcadia Bay and all her friends, because during the nightmare her friends (who - if it is a true nightmare - should be a representation of her subconcious) ask her why she decided to sacrifice them. In the end, I think that Max received the power not only to have a second chance with Chloe, but also to discover the truth about what happened to Rachel and to understand that Chloe death was necessary for the truth to come to light.
PS please, forgive me if what I wrote is confusing, I'm not a native speaker and I'm not very used to write in English
Bye!

I keep saying to everyone that lets Chloe die;
Tornado's happen every time in the USA, there's no absolute guarantee that she has to die for it not to happen ... even if the other ending shows no tornado.

Also you went through so much work to save Chloe and then let her die ... by your own choice aswell, just not something that's justifiable in my eyes.

We have no concrete evidence to why Max got her power, how she was meant to use it either.

I could go on but there's just so much stuff that I could probably write a book about it ^^

[Tirigon]

On topic of crazy theories: Am I the only one who thinks Jefferson has some weird powers himself? Not full timetravel, obviously, but definitely something.

He seems very much aware of Max's special powers - he mentions her "gift" in the very first scene in Ep. 1 already! - AND, more importantly, when Max travels back and f*cks him over in the beginning of Ep. 5 he seems to be aware of things not going the way they should (example: Max immediately answers his question about the Daguerre effect, and he is totally surprised and goes like "well that was easy" as if he subconciously knows that Max shouldnt know this in the "real" world).
He also can influence Max - why else would she tell him she wants to be in "our" Dark Room?! - and when Max travels back again and ends up back in his grasp he coincidentally does what is needed to stop her from using her time travel power.

All this, combined with the fact that he somehow got Sean Prescott to build a million dollar torture cellar for his sake, makes me wonder if he has an agenda that goes far beyond his psychotic fascination with the perfect photo. Maybe (similar to one of the theories already presented) he even knows about time travel via photography and tries to steal that power for his own ends?

[Makesin]

One thing that's important to remember is that while we see Chloe die in every episode apart of 3 (she's killed in the bathroom in Episode 1, she shoots herself and then is killed by a train in Episode 2, she is killed by Max in Episode 4 and then Jefferson kills her, she probably dies in Episode 5 in the tornado when Max is in SF), we only ever witness the tornado 3 times (because visions don't really count). First tornado happens when Chloe is killed by Jefferson, second tornado happens when Max is in SF (and Chloe lives) and the third tornado happens when Max and Chloe are at the lighthouse.

Since one of those tornadoes happen long after Chloe is dead (my guess is that there's around 20 hours between those two events), Chloe's death itself has no effect on the tornado. So while we can assume that Chloe's fate is to die (see the list of her deaths again), that is the fate of everyone in the end. The only time the tornado doesn't happen and we know it is when Chloe dies in the bathroom, but to me it seems a bit overdone from the universe to both create a tornado because she didn't die when she was supposed to, while still trying to kill her at every possible moment.

And if we say that the tornado is simply caused by changing time, then, well, that whole timeline is already changed - first change (from in-game timeline, not actual timeline) is when Max returns in time in the bathroom, the second change is when Max returns from SF and destroys the photo after taking it, instead of destroying it in the bathroom.

And then there's the comment from Michel Koch who said that Sacrifice AB ending is a new beginning for Max and Chloe. It'd be kind of a strange new beginning for them if, because Chloe is destined to die, they had a car accident an hour later.

So to me it still seems that the tornado is not really tied to that. I'll much rather buy into the whole Rachel's Wrath or Tobanga theories.