Polaroid Instant film is silly and unrealistic -for (most!) photographers!

[Jaxx]

I had a nice ;) conversation (another thread about Max using Polaroid camera in game) because I wrote that Max using Polaroid Instant (Positive) Film is hmmm not realistic. So, if you don't mind, read my long ;) valid argument.
If you would know about photography, you wouldn't say that Max' Polaroid Instant (600?) is a really good camera with really good film / image quality and Usability for photographers purpose.

IT IS big ridiculous cliché that analog photography (camera) is "better" than digital camera! ESPECIALLY NOT Polaroid!!! It is just unrealistic (but ridiculous) romantic glorified (from some one with no clue, dear devs!) that it's so much better if she use Polaroid. It's just silly! It's big facepalm! If you would know about photography, you would agree with me! Max really would love to be a "real" photographer, right? As far as I can remember that's her big dream, right? Beeing a "real" considered photographer, with good photos and exhibitions, right? Than it is just RIDICULOUS (and devs "fault") that Max use Polaroid camera! Do you know about the POOR image quality of polaroid instant positive film photos? Do you know that it's not easy to duplicate or enlarge Polaroid Instant (Positive) Image for exhibitions? It's as silly as some one desperatly wanted to be a great artist painter, but instead of using oil paints or at least acrylic paint, you use cheap poor watercolours from Walmart. Yes, you can make some nice watercolour painting with such paint, but you will never be able to paint pictures like Rembrandt or van Gogh... Also such cheap watercolours are not durable for a long time, at least not if you hang them on walls with UV light, because cheap watercolours don't have non-fading pigments.

It's ridiculous like some one want to be a great guitarist and try it with cheap little plastic kids guitar -also from walmart ;-) Just ridiculous and unrealistic! No real person with such dream would act like that! A real human beeing with the wish of becoming "real" photographer and if she would care about image quality would not use Polaroid but would try to get better camera, at least old analog or (even better) digital Single-lens reflex camera.

Using Polaroid is part of the story of the game?
Well as far as I can remember, it has not to be Polaroid. She needs the photos as developed / printed photos, so she can travel thru time, right? Yeah so what? There is not printer in her farty arty school? She can't develop her photos in Darkroom? (You don't need that much time for that!) Hell, she even could buy a digital camera with build-in-printer, but with better image quality than polaroid (positive film). She also could use digital screens from digital camera or computer for showing photo so she could travel back in time. So there are few options to avoid that ludicrous unrealistic cliché Polaroid thing! Representing Polaroid camera as oh so "romantic" and "better" camera is just silly, stupid. And hell yeah I don't like it, yeah because it is just too silly and unrealistic stupid! As i said before, no real serious heavy-duty (wanna-be) artist Photographer (like Max) would use Polaroid as one and only main camera!

THAT make the whole story or let me say Max' character UNREALISTIC and unbelievable / implausibly. So that destroys the whole "story" (Max character).
Especially if you want to be a real pro. (And no one would use Pola if he or she would care about image quality) It's almost unbelievable that they allow her to use one. In real art school they would give her a "real" camera, so she could learn about the process of developing photos. Damn please give her a good camera with good picture quality, something with photography negative film or digital sensor with Raw image format. But Polaroid...that also means that Max can't develop (or change artistically) her photos in darkroom or with photoshop -a big part of the whole artistic photographic process. Developing photos in darkroom or photoshop would be personal style. Polaroid is not personal style. Polaroid is instant crap with crappy image quality. Just good enough for a quick review (image) or very very private photos no one should see. (Because you don't give away negative film to some one else for developing...) If she really would care about real and artistic photography (as she mentioned in game??) she would never ever use a Pola. Sorry.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/319630/discussions/0/1291816569118445775/?ctp=24

My father is a guitar player (acoustic and E-guitar) and musician since almost 50 years. And he used to take analog photos, including photo developing, now he use digital cameras. I myself am a photographer as well, and I also tried to develope negative (black / white) film in past. I can't remember how many minutes, but you don't need hours! As I said before, sound quality of plastic guitar (from posted video) is crap, and normaly you can't put amplifier cable in it, no pro would use it for serious things like concerts and good recordings -maybe just for fun, for beeing silly. Back to photo cameras, Polaroid is instant camera for quick fun, but with very poor image quality. As I said before, no pro would ever... If you wanna become a real photographer you also would not use Polaroid. You would try to get old analog or digital camera. Also, as far as I can remember, in game Max talked little bit about few other photographers, it seems to me she admire them... but then she don't use similar cameras like they use(d) but instead of that she use Polaroid. LOL *facepalm* I can't remember if there was a real good explanation for that in game. But fact is still (no matter what you say) that using Polaroid in art class is just tooo silly and unrealistic, if you want to be a real photographer! Even "Lomo" cameras like "Holga" or "Diana" are much better than Polaroid!

You learn almost nothing about photography if you use Pola. Nothing about analog, nothing about digital photo image developing. (You also can't evolve your own style and style of image developing.) You just might learn little bit about framing the shoot / photo scene, that's all. There is NO need to use Polaroid. BUT there are many good reasons to use other cameras! Again, she don't need darkroom. She also could use digital camera -welcome to the future! But she only use Polaroid, which means she does not care about image quality (and she does not care if she could use or could not use tiny Polaroid images with poor image quality for exhibitions) , she does not care to learn about photography and about film developing, analog or digital, she just don't care and don't want to know / learn. She don't care about The Craft of Photography. So at the end she just really don't care to become a photographer. So all her previous words in game about being a soon-to-be photographer and about photography and famous photographers is just silly unsubstantial empty blah blah. You can advocate devs silly decision for using Polaroid in game as much as you want, but the truth is, in real life Max would never ever use Polaroid (especially not as only main) camera, if she would love to become a real photographer and if she really would care about photography and image quality.

@ Frankenbeans, no you dont get it and sorry you are wrong. Yes I am a photographer, and I am talking about The Craft of Photography. Photography is much more than just pushing the little button!!! But with Polaroid you can't do much more than just pushing the button! There are no lenses you can change, there are no photographic analog filters you could use (as far as I know) for Pola. As far as I can remember there are also no settings for Aperture and Exposure time, well not many. There is NO (own) image developing! NO own artistic style. Almost nothing you could change, not own artistic style. It's just aim and shoot. Just using Polaroid and just pushing the button is -sorry- just not enough! You are not a real photographer if you don't know / care about the craft of photography, including all such things. Like camera lenses, filters, film / sensor size... camera technology... IMAGE DEVELOPING!!! Also -and again- if you make images, you care about image quality, and almost all "real" photographer would prefer a "real" camera with better image quality!!! Because at the end, the image is the final product and you want to see it and you want that other people can see it, clear. But Polaroid image quality is like... nope thanks!!! Just show me one real photographer, okay now I mean a real pro who use only Polaroid! You say that you are a photographer? Right now I doubt! And it's not about analog VS digital as you said. It's about good image quality, about the craft of photography, it's about using and "playing" with different camera equipment. Changing camera things (like lenses and settings) and giving image different styles. You can't do all that with Polaroid! Sorry to say so but fact is Polaroid is kind of crap, and is almost the most unimportant part in the world of photography when it comes to image quality and artistic style and using photography equipment. What camera do you use? Nevermind. You just could name some from internet. And I still would feel doubt.

You are wrong, I know a lot about art, in fact I am artist, photographer and painter. And I still say using ONLY Polaroid as only main camera if she wants to be a real photographer is just not enough! Yeah yeah ART, I get it... haha Art, okay Because triggering the cameras button of Polaroid is so arty, farty arty. Pushing down the button is so much personal art style. Just framing the image, and pushing the button, yeah great art. Sorry, I'm ironic now. If she would really care about art AND photography she would love to use and learn "real" cameras with film and digital and image developing, but she don't care! Being Artist and being Photographer is much more than just pushing cameras button, especially if it's just a Polaroid! Oh, there is a special reason in game why she use Polaroid? Sorry, I can't remember. However, if she wants to be an real photographer and then she just use Polaroid is still silly and unrealistic.

Qiana eredeti hozzászólása:

CZBGR Icepick eredeti hozzászólása:

The art the artists make out of Polaroids are worth more than what photographers make today.

Agree.

Two already disqualified lying fanboys without any clue!

[Qiana]

CZBGR Icepick eredeti hozzászólása:

The art the artists make out of Polaroids are worth more than what photographers make today.

Agree.

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffab&q=hockney+polaroid+art&iax=images&ia=images

(enter this as search term, if it doesn't open automatically: hockney polaroid art images)

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/gallery/2010/may/30/photography-polaroid

https://www.sothebys.com/en/auctions/2010/photographs-from-the-polaroid-collection-n08649.html

[Jaxx]

You really believe that too? So you also don't know what photographers are capable of with other cameras and films!!! Annie Leibovitz? Her main camera & film was not and is not Polaroid Instant camera! Ansel Adams? His main camera & film was not Polaroid Instant camera!... and so on and so on. But Vivian Maier...! But Diane Arbus...! But Robert Capa...! But Robert Frank...! But Henri Cartier-Bresson...! But Andreas Gursky...! But Peter Lindbergh...! But Gordon Parks -to name a black man...! And so many others, dead or alive... Main camera? Most photos made with...? Polaroid Instant? NOOOooooooo. No Polaroid Instant. Why not? We all know why.

First link is art made with the great support of photographs! ;-P
(PS and you don't need Polaroid for that!!!)
Second link...some of them even aren't Polaroid Instant Film. (And most of the photographers are dead, just saying ;)
Third link .. few of them even are not photographs but paintings or other graphic. The pictures itself are good because of the photo scene / motif, but with other camera / other film it would be even better -and also better for enlarging, copying, reproducing, exhibitions. I'm still saying Polaroid Instant Film is very unpractically and worse than others.
Can you show me that other cameras or films are even more unpractically and worse???

You don't know nowadays photographers and their work!
You don't know the huge amount of great photographs made with other cameras!
It seems to me you are against nowadays photographers, and against all other cameras.

[Prinegon]

Jaxx eredeti hozzászólása:

https://life-is-strange.fandom.com/wiki/Max%27s_Notes?file=Note3-chloeroom-rachelphoto.png
A Poalroid selfie with no camera in hand? How? Selftimer (delayed-action shutter release) ? I would say half or even more of old Polaroid Instant cameras are without selftimer option. But if Max use a new modern time (2013) Polaroid she could use selftimer. But she need something like tripod or something else she could mount her camera. No don't try Polaroid Instant camera with your smartphone selfie stick! LOL

I don't understand what you are upset about? We know, how the butterfly photo was taken. And the photo of Rachel neigher is a polaroid photo, nor a selfie. It's a common passport picture (back in the day there was no need to pose in a biometric position), those kind of pictures you can get in photo booths at every train station. Altough with that pose I think it's more likely she bought those pictures at a professional photographer.
We know that Max uses a polaroid with selftimer and that she uses a tripod as well. In Cryssalis we reenter the scene of the photowall-picture of hers and we can see her setup. So what point are you tryinig to make here?

[Jaxx]

Sorry, wrong link. I will try to find the correct one and will correct link.
Got it
https://life-is-strange.fandom.com/wiki/Max_Caulfield/Gallery?file=Maxstrip.jpg
Tripod? Okay :)

Wait, is she shaking polaroid film -or just holding? Haha
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/life-is-strange/images/9/93/2016-02-21_00019.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20160228171341
Holding camera with just one hand without any camera strap and also without watching camera is very bad idea btw. ...just with thumb and little finger, oh girl I can't watch. So bad, Max you will crash your camera, for sure.

I am so glad Max use normal good acoustic guitar
https://life-is-strange.fandom.com/wiki/Max_Caulfield/Gallery?file=Maxresdefault_%252824%2529.jpg

PS:
I won't measure it now but size of polaroid instant film is like between 54 mm x 86 mm and 62 mm × 99 mm (2,4″ × 3,9″) and than the photos on her wall are too big.
https://life-is-strange.fandom.com/wiki/Max_Caulfield/Gallery?file=Vlcsnap-2016-09-02-19h13m51s959.png
It seems to me the size of polaroid photos in game are unrealistic too big (at least they look too big) or her face and everything in her room is just too small. But right, who cares, it's just a game.

[Qiana]

There are basically 4 different "values" in photography.

1. Technical value

Lines per millimeter (sharpness), correct exposure ... That one is pretty much irrelevant, as the quality of the photo does not depend on its technical quality.

2. Artistic value

The Idea ... the creativity ... That is what makes the difference between the masterpiece and 'just another sharp snapshot'. Unsharp masterpiece, is still a masterpiece.

3. Historical value

Historical moments, famous people ... does not need further explanation. Many great photos of classical photography masters, are worth just because the famous people or situations were on them ... with some exceptions like e.g. Salgado's South-American mine workers ...

4. Monetary value

$$$ ... pays for the works of art, that are exceptional in some artistic way, or which are historically valuable. Additional worth if they are not reproducible.

Here the Polaroids are clearly the most valuable, because they are unique — there is only one original. Analog photography follows, but its worth is basically reduced, because it is reproducible. However, one can still buy the original negative and improve the value.

Digital photography is worthless, unless if it is measured after its artistic or historical values. There are hundreds of billions of digital junk photos around the place, and most of it is sharp and well exposed, but is still rarely worth watching for more than a couple of seconds — except if it has some artistic or historical value.

Both, the artistic and historical value are not dependent on the technical execution. A good Polaroid, out of focus Lomo or suboptimal exposed Smena 8 photo, can be a masterpiece, just as the one made by Leica or Zeiss ... or it can be just as junk, as the most of the photographs made by Zeiss, Sony (Minolta), Pentax, Olympus, Nikon, Leica, Hasselblad, Fuji, Canon ...

Technical quality is the least important thing in photography, and it'll stay so.

[Qiana]

Jaxx eredeti hozzászólása:

Maybe even with changable lenses?
A Poalroid selfie with no camera in hand?
How? Selftimer (delayed-action shutter release) ?
I would say half or even more of old Polaroid Instant cameras are without selftimer option.

I can again, easily prove you, that you are wrong again, but you'll again not stop trolling ... again and again ... 😉

https://polaroids.theskeltons.org/img/stimer.jpg

https://polaroids.theskeltons.org/accessor.htm

[Jaxx]

Qiana eredeti hozzászólása:

Monetary value...Here the Polaroids are clearly the most valuable, because they are unique — there is only one original.

No, you are wrong. Just because there is only one original does not automatically mean that it's more valuable than other photos. I don't care about Historical value and Monetary value, because discussion is about the poor image quality of Polaroid Instant Film, and the poor usability for photo enlarging, reproducing and exhibitions. But thanks anyway. As I said before the uniqueness is a weak point for all photographers, because they can not present original photo to friends and family without losing their own art, they also can sell original Polaroid just 1 time! If you are not a very famous photographer with very high prices, you will lose your artwork very quickly for a little bit of money. Also not good for exhibitions because Polaroid Instant photo is pretty small, so in a room with many people small photos are not really convenient. (You need just 1 head of 1 person, and no one else will be able to see the photo anymore!) Also, gallery could lose photo, or someone could demage it, or someone steal it. Hiding small picture behind jacket is easy. Pretty risky.) So I don't see any real benefit, but many disadvantages. But I see many more other cameras with many more benefits and less disadvantages.

I would say half or even more of old Polaroid Instant cameras are without selftimer option. (So yes, you could buy selftimer tools to attach.) I didn't say there are no Polaroids with selftimer at all. Obviously Max' used one for her selfie (at the beach ?) For some (not all) Polaroids you can attach a Close-up lens but that's not the same as a zoom-able lens, or just a telephoto lens or macro lens -as far as I know you can not take real macro photos with Polaroid Instant Camera. I'm talking about the big black lenses (Canon_ also white) with few glass parts inside. You even can't change focus with Polaroid Instant, right? Great creativity ;-) What camera is Max using? I would say her Camera is based on the Polaroid 600 Polaroid Job Pro (1981). I know she indeed used 2 Polaroids in game. (Oh what a great advertisement for Polaroid! It has to be Polaroid Instant, right??!!) She used integral film, I would say 600 or maybe SX-70, but I guess Polaroid Color Film for 600 which means picture size is 79 x 79 mm without white frame, 107 x 88 mm with white frame. Polaroid 600 is called „The Construction Camera.“ And you know why? "It was developed and advertised for construction and building site photography." LOL I would say her second Polaroid is some sort of Polaroid 1200si (Image Spectra).

I'm not trolling -stop accusing me! You Polaroid fanboy!
But what I call trolling

Qiana eredeti hozzászólása:

CZBGR Icepick eredeti hozzászólása:

The art the artists make out of Polaroids are worth more than what photographers make today.

Agree.

So you stop trolling please. I can again, easily prove you, that you are wrong again, but you'll again not stop trolling ... again and again. Proof is that Polaroid Instant camera is not main camera of (majority) photographers. They all use other cameras. Don't forget one important thing. If you are famous artist / photographer you can cooperate with companies, then and nowadays. They will give you allmost everything you want for free, expensive cameras and film as well. You can try every new equipment they have to offer. And they also will pay photographers! So when you bring up Ansel Adams... Ansel Adams was a corporate consultant for Polaroid...nuff said?!... And at his time Polaroid was a big(ger) thing back then. And I still say that camera like Polaroid Instant 600 was most probably the worst camera he ever used. Why don't you mention all the other great photographers and their other cameras? You ignore all that!

Qiana eredeti hozzászólása:

Technical quality is the least important thing in photography, and it'll stay so..

I would not say that! You need both for what people call masterpiece. That again is the reason why majority of all photographers don't use Polaroid Instant Camera.

"I take photos. Of me, the world, everything. It may sound sad, but I have a blast." - Max Caulfield
She said photos, not art!
"Instant film is so damn hard to find and expensive now." - Max Caulfield
So true dear Max, but you still don't wanna buy another camera? How about Lomography?! Or just another analog one with 35 film?! Oh and please Max, stop shaking the photograph, you silly girl (Devs!) Shaking does not develope the photograph faster but could damage the image quality!
"I love how Polaroid cameras make every photo look a little nostalgic." - Max Caulfield
Oh please girl, travel back to 1981 for a good living in the past. But you could use a lot other cameras for a great nostalgic look, literally every analog camera! (I could name you a few.) Just try it, expand your horizons!

Talking about stupid people with Polaroid...
1995. Bank Robber. McArthur Wheeler.
Wheeler knew that lemon juice is used as an invisible ink. Logically, then, lemon juice would make his face invisible to cameras. He tested this out before the heists, putting juice on his face and snapping a selfie with a Polaroid camera. There was no face in the photo! (Police never figured that out. Most likely Wheeler was no more competent as a photographer than he was as a bank robber.) Wheeler reported one problem with his scheme. The lemon juice stung his eyes so badly that he could barely see. But most people believe he was just pointing the camera lens in the wrong direction.

PS: But he went to bank, two banks at the same day, face (and everything else) covered with lemon juice. And he thought he's kind of invisible, at least invisible for security camera! Well, he was not!... So it was the same day or the next day (I believe) when Police officers came and said HELLO dear bank robber, we know you.

[Prinegon]

Jaxx eredeti hozzászólása:

I won't measure it now but size of polaroid instant film is like between 54 mm x 86 mm and 62 mm × 99 mm (2,4″ × 3,9″) and than the photos on her wall are too big.
https://life-is-strange.fandom.com/wiki/Max_Caulfield/Gallery?file=Vlcsnap-2016-09-02-19h13m51s959.png
It seems to me the size of polaroid photos in game are unrealistic too big (at least they look too big) or her face and everything in her room is just too small. But right, who cares, it's just a game.

It depends a little. In this picture
https://life-is-strange.fandom.com/wiki/Max_Caulfield/Gallery?file=Vlcsnap-2016-09-02-19h13m51s959.png
it seems that way. If you look at the dresser, we can assume it to be roughly about 110cm wide.
https://www.ikea.com/de/de/p/hemnes-kommode-mit-3-schubladen-weiss-gebeizt-80424745/
We see about 8 pictures above that dresser, so the wide of each picture would be 110/8 = 137,5 (mm)
If we take the bed as reference, we'd expect it to be about 200 cm. Due to the angle we don't see the whole bed and we can see about 11 pictures above it. Extrapolate it to the expected width, if 15 pictures were to fit along the bedside the result would be consistent with what we have seen at the dresser: 200/15= 133,3 (mm)
However, if you take this photo as reference
https://life-is-strange.fandom.com/wiki/Max%27s_Notes?file=Note_MaxPhotoWall.jpg
we actually can see, that more than 15 photos fit along the edge of the bed. You might have to jump rows a bit for counting, but you can see, it is about 17 to 18 pictures, lowering the width of each picture to 111,1 (mm) to 17,6 (mm), still bigger than the sugguestes 99mm, but not by that much. The biggest (none-large screen) polaroid format I found would be 107 x 88 mm (including the edges/frame). (large screen formats would go up to 325 x 215 mm)

While this was a funny exercise, it doesn't even matter at all. Why: Because it IS a game. And as a game one has to make compromises. One compromise obviously was to enlarge those photos by 40% to enable the player to recognize at least a little bit of sceneries on those pictures.

Oh, some more views on the picture wall for comparison:
https://life-is-strange.fandom.com/wiki/The_Max_Caulfield_Photo_Memorial_Wall?file=Memorialwall1.jpg
https://life-is-strange.fandom.com/wiki/The_Max_Caulfield_Photo_Memorial_Wall?file=Pictureswall.png

PS: What is more interesting is, that the photo wall looks different in the picture she took for the galery. E.g. there is a row of photos lower than the hight of the bedpost, while in reality the first row starts above that bedpost.

[Jaxx]

Very good

[Qiana]

Jaxx eredeti hozzászólása:

A lot of trolling ...

... and those are still masterpieces, you'd be proud of:

https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/fN3og3pawkbQbP9GzRXPjljM1tk=/800x0/filters:no_upscale()/https://public-media.si-cdn.com/filer/Photographer-Polaroids-David-Hockney-1.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f1/f7/12/f1f712dd4563a47c82151beadd42a4f3.jpg

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/3a/6a/7a/3a6a7a80003dfad6756de122b2281ed5.jpg

😉

[Jaxx]

Masterpiece is such overrated word. Da mn, I need to buy a winky blinky emoticon. I can't use oh wait, here's a better one but I would love to use the original yellow ones.
I like the one with man with glasses. But yes that's called art. So sorry most of the time I am talking about photographs. You know, like single picture, just one photo, not picture Puzzle or modern photo mosaic But yes, they are indeed good, like very good. I would not say contrary.

[Qiana]

Wanna show us your digital junk? 😉

[Jaxx]

Most of my stuff is not online. Just few things. Well, many product photos too, but I keep that secret haha. So well just few okay "artistic" stuff is online -I guess I am kind of old-fashioned. And still I don't use analog anymore. Also I believe steam is not the right place for posting such private things, because, well too many racist homophob incel moron kids around (not here!) ... they are my "fans" and they love me very much! ;-) So i also keep my profile privat. I sent few of my photos via steam friends chat to my few steam friends but now... I guess Valve has changed their picture copyright thing, so now I don't feel well with that, because maybe they could use my photos now... So everything you post or sent to or thru steam...they might will save and use for their own purpose, like Facebook can. Sorry. Also, few people insulted me, and I would never show them my work.

PS:
I would never ever show my pictures to YOU!!!

[Qiana]

And here we come back to my previous post and statement ...

The art-critics agreed, the collectors and museums, the art-teachers agreed ... only one opinionated 🤡 🥳 🤡-brain puts all their opinions in questions and finds Polaroids 💩 ...

🥱

[Jaxx]

Wrong! They all prefer other photos! If they could get other photos they will take other photos. But if they will find expensive Instant Polaroids they also will take them. Just visit 10 photo exhibitions and see what sort of photos you will find.
Damn I also need the brown heap emoticon, so I can show racist people and others at steam what I think about them.