Polaroid Instant film is silly and unrealistic -for (most!) photographers!

[Jaxx]

I had a nice ;) conversation (another thread about Max using Polaroid camera in game) because I wrote that Max using Polaroid Instant (Positive) Film is hmmm not realistic. So, if you don't mind, read my long ;) valid argument.
If you would know about photography, you wouldn't say that Max' Polaroid Instant (600?) is a really good camera with really good film / image quality and Usability for photographers purpose.

IT IS big ridiculous cliché that analog photography (camera) is "better" than digital camera! ESPECIALLY NOT Polaroid!!! It is just unrealistic (but ridiculous) romantic glorified (from some one with no clue, dear devs!) that it's so much better if she use Polaroid. It's just silly! It's big facepalm! If you would know about photography, you would agree with me! Max really would love to be a "real" photographer, right? As far as I can remember that's her big dream, right? Beeing a "real" considered photographer, with good photos and exhibitions, right? Than it is just RIDICULOUS (and devs "fault") that Max use Polaroid camera! Do you know about the POOR image quality of polaroid instant positive film photos? Do you know that it's not easy to duplicate or enlarge Polaroid Instant (Positive) Image for exhibitions? It's as silly as some one desperatly wanted to be a great artist painter, but instead of using oil paints or at least acrylic paint, you use cheap poor watercolours from Walmart. Yes, you can make some nice watercolour painting with such paint, but you will never be able to paint pictures like Rembrandt or van Gogh... Also such cheap watercolours are not durable for a long time, at least not if you hang them on walls with UV light, because cheap watercolours don't have non-fading pigments.

It's ridiculous like some one want to be a great guitarist and try it with cheap little plastic kids guitar -also from walmart ;-) Just ridiculous and unrealistic! No real person with such dream would act like that! A real human beeing with the wish of becoming "real" photographer and if she would care about image quality would not use Polaroid but would try to get better camera, at least old analog or (even better) digital Single-lens reflex camera.

Using Polaroid is part of the story of the game?
Well as far as I can remember, it has not to be Polaroid. She needs the photos as developed / printed photos, so she can travel thru time, right? Yeah so what? There is not printer in her farty arty school? She can't develop her photos in Darkroom? (You don't need that much time for that!) Hell, she even could buy a digital camera with build-in-printer, but with better image quality than polaroid (positive film). She also could use digital screens from digital camera or computer for showing photo so she could travel back in time. So there are few options to avoid that ludicrous unrealistic cliché Polaroid thing! Representing Polaroid camera as oh so "romantic" and "better" camera is just silly, stupid. And hell yeah I don't like it, yeah because it is just too silly and unrealistic stupid! As i said before, no real serious heavy-duty (wanna-be) artist Photographer (like Max) would use Polaroid as one and only main camera!

THAT make the whole story or let me say Max' character UNREALISTIC and unbelievable / implausibly. So that destroys the whole "story" (Max character).
Especially if you want to be a real pro. (And no one would use Pola if he or she would care about image quality) It's almost unbelievable that they allow her to use one. In real art school they would give her a "real" camera, so she could learn about the process of developing photos. Damn please give her a good camera with good picture quality, something with photography negative film or digital sensor with Raw image format. But Polaroid...that also means that Max can't develop (or change artistically) her photos in darkroom or with photoshop -a big part of the whole artistic photographic process. Developing photos in darkroom or photoshop would be personal style. Polaroid is not personal style. Polaroid is instant crap with crappy image quality. Just good enough for a quick review (image) or very very private photos no one should see. (Because you don't give away negative film to some one else for developing...) If she really would care about real and artistic photography (as she mentioned in game??) she would never ever use a Pola. Sorry.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/319630/discussions/0/1291816569118445775/?ctp=24

My father is a guitar player (acoustic and E-guitar) and musician since almost 50 years. And he used to take analog photos, including photo developing, now he use digital cameras. I myself am a photographer as well, and I also tried to develope negative (black / white) film in past. I can't remember how many minutes, but you don't need hours! As I said before, sound quality of plastic guitar (from posted video) is crap, and normaly you can't put amplifier cable in it, no pro would use it for serious things like concerts and good recordings -maybe just for fun, for beeing silly. Back to photo cameras, Polaroid is instant camera for quick fun, but with very poor image quality. As I said before, no pro would ever... If you wanna become a real photographer you also would not use Polaroid. You would try to get old analog or digital camera. Also, as far as I can remember, in game Max talked little bit about few other photographers, it seems to me she admire them... but then she don't use similar cameras like they use(d) but instead of that she use Polaroid. LOL *facepalm* I can't remember if there was a real good explanation for that in game. But fact is still (no matter what you say) that using Polaroid in art class is just tooo silly and unrealistic, if you want to be a real photographer! Even "Lomo" cameras like "Holga" or "Diana" are much better than Polaroid!

You learn almost nothing about photography if you use Pola. Nothing about analog, nothing about digital photo image developing. (You also can't evolve your own style and style of image developing.) You just might learn little bit about framing the shoot / photo scene, that's all. There is NO need to use Polaroid. BUT there are many good reasons to use other cameras! Again, she don't need darkroom. She also could use digital camera -welcome to the future! But she only use Polaroid, which means she does not care about image quality (and she does not care if she could use or could not use tiny Polaroid images with poor image quality for exhibitions) , she does not care to learn about photography and about film developing, analog or digital, she just don't care and don't want to know / learn. She don't care about The Craft of Photography. So at the end she just really don't care to become a photographer. So all her previous words in game about being a soon-to-be photographer and about photography and famous photographers is just silly unsubstantial empty blah blah. You can advocate devs silly decision for using Polaroid in game as much as you want, but the truth is, in real life Max would never ever use Polaroid (especially not as only main) camera, if she would love to become a real photographer and if she really would care about photography and image quality.

@ Frankenbeans, no you dont get it and sorry you are wrong. Yes I am a photographer, and I am talking about The Craft of Photography. Photography is much more than just pushing the little button!!! But with Polaroid you can't do much more than just pushing the button! There are no lenses you can change, there are no photographic analog filters you could use (as far as I know) for Pola. As far as I can remember there are also no settings for Aperture and Exposure time, well not many. There is NO (own) image developing! NO own artistic style. Almost nothing you could change, not own artistic style. It's just aim and shoot. Just using Polaroid and just pushing the button is -sorry- just not enough! You are not a real photographer if you don't know / care about the craft of photography, including all such things. Like camera lenses, filters, film / sensor size... camera technology... IMAGE DEVELOPING!!! Also -and again- if you make images, you care about image quality, and almost all "real" photographer would prefer a "real" camera with better image quality!!! Because at the end, the image is the final product and you want to see it and you want that other people can see it, clear. But Polaroid image quality is like... nope thanks!!! Just show me one real photographer, okay now I mean a real pro who use only Polaroid! You say that you are a photographer? Right now I doubt! And it's not about analog VS digital as you said. It's about good image quality, about the craft of photography, it's about using and "playing" with different camera equipment. Changing camera things (like lenses and settings) and giving image different styles. You can't do all that with Polaroid! Sorry to say so but fact is Polaroid is kind of crap, and is almost the most unimportant part in the world of photography when it comes to image quality and artistic style and using photography equipment. What camera do you use? Nevermind. You just could name some from internet. And I still would feel doubt.

You are wrong, I know a lot about art, in fact I am artist, photographer and painter. And I still say using ONLY Polaroid as only main camera if she wants to be a real photographer is just not enough! Yeah yeah ART, I get it... haha Art, okay Because triggering the cameras button of Polaroid is so arty, farty arty. Pushing down the button is so much personal art style. Just framing the image, and pushing the button, yeah great art. Sorry, I'm ironic now. If she would really care about art AND photography she would love to use and learn "real" cameras with film and digital and image developing, but she don't care! Being Artist and being Photographer is much more than just pushing cameras button, especially if it's just a Polaroid! Oh, there is a special reason in game why she use Polaroid? Sorry, I can't remember. However, if she wants to be an real photographer and then she just use Polaroid is still silly and unrealistic.

Originally posted by Qiana:

Originally posted by CZBGR Icepick:

The art the artists make out of Polaroids are worth more than what photographers make today.

Agree.

Two already disqualified lying fanboys without any clue!

[Qiana]

Originally posted by Jaxx:

@ CZBGR Icepick:
Thank you, but...
Hmmm, Stop talking about art. My discussion is not about art! And sorry, in my mind Max is no artist. She is trying to be a photographer, that is her desire! (As far as I know!) If she only produce photos I will call her photographer! And what is she shooting? Some selfies, some friends, some landscapes, oh a nice blue butterfly, a sunset, oh and there's a biiig storm!

PS: Is anyone able to post Max own "polaroid photos"? So we all can see?

Originally posted by Frankenbeans:

Originally posted by Jaxx:

Hello fanboy. I repeat, it's NOT about art vs technology... And please don't teach me art, I know art. I don't talk about art, do you understand?! It's not about art. I am talking about photography. I am talking about Max wanna become a haha photographer -by using a Polaroid all the time LOL.

"I know art" they say after writing multiple posts explaining how they don't know art.
Photography IS art. What we see Max doing in the game IS art. As I've explained so many times before what medium the artist uses to express their art is irrelevant.

Your basic premise is wrong.

Originally posted by Jaxx:

Come on, dont be silly. Dont you understand what I am sayin?!
I know that Photography is art. I didn't say opposite! I make haha Art since many years, with cameras and paint, and few other things. You still dont get it. But what i am saying is that if you wanna become photographer you will not only use Polaroid as main camera, but you would try another camera as fast as you can. And, as far as I can remember, Max is not interested to be artist, but she wants to be "photographer". Am I wrong? As far as I can remember she talked alot about other photographers and photos and photo exhibitions. Photography is her passion. Not "just art". [...]So again, if she wants to become photographer, using Polaroid all the time as main camera is just silly. Oh and please remember the poor crappy image quality!

PS
"What we see Max doing in the game IS art."
Well, I don't agree 100 %. Let me explain. If she only use photo camera, than the main term for her doing is not art but photography! It's called photography! If you take photos, they call you photographer -it's photography! [...]

Yes, you are — wrong.

A painter is a painter AND artist.

A photographer is a photographer AND artist.

An artist is a photographer, painter, writer, architect, constructor ... Universal Genius (like Leonard da Vinci, for example).

Photography IS art, and you can't talk about photography, without also talking about art.

Dreaming about becoming a photographer, implies dreaming of becoming (photo) artist.

Photography being someone's passion and dreaming about becoming a (famous) photographer at the same time, also implies dreaming of becoming the (photo) artist.

If you try to talk about photography and exclude the art, then the photography is not more than "turn that wheel and press that button", and if you talk only about a photography as technology, then you talk about materials, optics, software etc., but that is then some techno-talk in some techno-forum and not Max's aim.

As Frankenbeans already explained to you, what medium the artist uses to express their art is irrelevant. Or would you say, one can only write a bestseller with Mont Blanc fountain pen, or only on a MacBook Pro with Scrivener? Would that be scribbling or writing?

Is someone who writes the book with a pencil not a writer?

Originally posted by Jaxx:

I am implying nothing! Stop putting words in my mouth, if you know what I mean.
Just in case if i didn't mentioned it before, it also has nothing do to with analog vs digital! I didn't say anything bad about analog, I also didn't praise profusely digital cameras. (But I did mention Lomo cameras, which are analog cameras btw.) Do you read my words? I don't think so.

Yes, we do. And yes, you are impying. You did say that Polaroid is a crap, because of its crappy image quality (which is truth) and you said that good photographers are not using crappy Polaroid (false).

Originally posted by Jaxx:

"What medium the artist chooses to use is irrelevant." Nope, it's not irrelevant. It's a very important choice, and photographers choose "good" cameras with good image quality and the capability for different creative use of the tool and developing / editing for different outcome -so they DONT use polaroid!
"What is relevant is the final product." Yeah, and the final product of Polaroid is tiny image with crap quality!

Your conclusion: Annie Leibovitz is NOT a photographer? (While being THE photographer.)

https://content.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,2107768_2107767_2107761,00.html

Originally posted by Jaxx:

But Polaroid...that also means that Max can't develop (or change artistically) her photos in darkroom or with photoshop -a big part of the whole artistic photographic process. Developing photos in darkroom or photoshop would be personal style. Polaroid is not personal style. Polaroid is instant crap with crappy image quality. Just good enough for a quick review (image) or very very private photos no one should see. (Because you don't give away negative film to some one else for developing...) If she really would care about real and artistic photography (as she mentioned in game??) she would never ever use a Pola. Sorry.

If the Polaroid is the media of choice to express oneself, then it is a personal style.

You obviously didn't understand some very basic terms nor the essence of photography, "personal style" and "uniqueness".

It is not only about the technical execution — it is about "The Decisive Moment" -about "the magic of the instant". And then, we get "unique" atop of it.

https://contrastly.com/the-decisive-moment-what-it-is-and-why-its-important-in-photography/

(Instant == The Decisive Moment == A period of time so short as to be almost imperceptible.)

https://www.wordnik.com/words/instant

Originally posted by Jaxx:

Yes, some artists used Polaroid -so what?! Just look at ALL OTHER know[n] or famous photographers and look which cameras they use (as main camera). Polaroid? NOPE.

Annie Leibovitz?

Walker Evans, David Hockney, Ansel Adams, Andy Warhol?..

"As main camera" is irrelevant here. Almost no photographer ever used only one single type of camera.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/arts-culture/seven-famous-photographers-who-used-polaroids-97986365/

https://www.flavorwire.com/216369/great-photographers-who-use-crappy-cameras

https://www.lightstalking.com/cameras-used-for-famous-photographs/

Originally posted by Jaxx:

Nope I know a lot about art, in fact I am artist, photographer and painter. And I still say using ONLY Polaroid as only main camera if she wants to be a real photographer is just not enough!

The game gave us absolutely no pointer, that could lead to a conclusion, that Max wanted to use solely, uniquely and only Polaroid for the rest of her career — just because it is her preferred medium, does not yet mean that it is the only she would ever be willing to use.

Nevertheless, using only Polaroid could HYPOTHETICALLY work ...

Max Caulfield? Max who? Aah ... Maxdroid ... that freak that only makes Polaroids ...

The fact that it is her conscious choice and her very personal way to express herself, it becomes her very personal and unique style, which again makes her very different from the rest and those easily recognizable in the crowd. However, good self-marketing is a must.


Edit:
Answer to the P.S. from the first quote:
Did you check Max's Diary and the wall in her room?
And some more are in LIS:BTS, hanged on the rope in Chloe's room.

[Qiana]

Originally posted by Jaxx:

@ Qiana
[...] you call me rude and 14 and whatever. Well I feel you are rude too.

"What if he was 14", came from #38 by Prinegon, and it wasn't meant to be an insult.

Calling someone rude by the name ("rude") is the fact and those, it can't be rude.

Calling someone rude because of it called someone rude "rude", is ... childish? 😉

[Jaxx]

@ Prinegon

My aunt had a Polaroid, my sister had a Polaroid... I've tried Polaroid. I still don't like Polaroid.

@ Qiana
No you are wrong, because it is not about What is art and What is not art. Calling something art ... It's judging, and I don't like that. That's why I am trying to avoid! So it's not about what it is, but which terms you use. But especially because I avoid judment about such things I like to call the specific term, like photos, like photographer. So most of the time I won't use term "art". If I use term artist, I mean someone whos a painter and a photographer and maybe even more. (So people know that he is doing MORE than just one thing!) But if someone just one thing, just produce photos, I call him photographer. Yes, you might find that weird?! Nah sorry, I don't care. Because people will understand what's all about if you say "photographer". No one will know what he is doing, if you say "artist". And again, nowadays everything can be art, and so also everyone can be called artist, and so many people call themself artist. Crap. "Billy Wonderfull" is an artist!" Wait...WHO? What is he doing? What is he famous for? He is an actor! So why don't you call him actor? Silly guy. Specific terms are better terms!
Now go and google "Billy Wonderfull". I don't know him, I actually invented him. Maybe you will find him in real life.

Nude is better than rude -if you are a photographer.

[Qiana]

Originally posted by Prinegon:

I don't know about Polaroid distribution in the US, but I have the feeling, if it took place in Europe, it would have been odd. Polaroid devices seemed to always have been pretty rare in Europe.
Also Polaroid sales would have peaked in the 70s. The company would have filed for bankruptcy in 2001 and 2008 (and would not produce more cameras since 2008 anymore). Those cameras would have been quite old.
But funny thing: In professional photography polaroid got used quite a bit to do test shots of motives to figure out best composition and lighting settings. Also it was quite common for reporters to first do a polaroid shot and then a non-polaroid shot afterwards, to be able to hand out photos to the people they were taking a photo of, to build up good graces and trust.

Polaroid is cult and is still alive (again). Rebirth in Europe!

However, the magic of instant photography was reborn thanks to a revival endeavor known as The Impossible Project. In 2008, a small group of instant photography fans saved the last remaining Polaroid factory in the world, located in the Netherlands.

https://eu.polaroid.com/

https://mymodernmet.com/history-of-polaroid/

https://digiday.com/marketing/comeback-story-inside-polaroids-digital-revival/

https://www.thenationalnews.com/lifestyle/why-polaroid-photography-is-making-a-comeback-1.729121

In the old days, there was also a Polaroid 35 mm film, which I used a lot. Besides Kodachrome, two most unique types of films ever made.

[CZBGR Icepick]

Originally posted by Jaxx:

"literally quoted you"
:Camera: Hmmm nope.

I did. Stop lying.

Originally posted by Jaxx:

"You now pivoted to accept different cameras excluding digital and Polaroids, which you didn't mention until someone else brought it up."
:Camera: Hmmm nope, I dont think so. But some people thought that I'm against ANALOG, but that's not really the case. I accept all cameras but I believe that Polaroid is the worst tool for photographer with almost worst image quality (maybe microfilm of old spy camera is worse, I don't know).

You did. Right when you were agreeing with Prinegon.

Originally posted by Jaxx:

"I don't care who Mark Jefferson is."
:Camera: Really, you don't care? You don't like the game? You don't care that he is evil man?! LOL

That wasn't relevant to my point.

Originally posted by Jaxx:

"My point was that he was teaching art by using photography. "
:Camera: Good point. (However, he is also a photographer!) But what is he teaching to Max? How to hold polaroid? How to frame scenes? How to shake polaroid picture? LOL

Pretty much how to frame an image. He was teaching art, and as I pointed out in the beginning, that was the same stuff I was taught about art in college, and I wasn't doing anything with photography.

Originally posted by Jaxx:

:Camera:
Yes you could blame me, because MAX IS NOT REAL, and so she dont need act like real human being. If she would be real, she would use another...
:lunar2019coolpig:

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:LIS_butterfly:

You're the only one being serious about using a different camera, and your premise is bad.

[Decider of the sane]

Originally posted by Prinegon:

Originally posted by Frankenbeans:

^this

I don't care who started it. It just is ridicculous that this is still going on.
You mock Jaxx because he sounded like a 14 year old. What if he was 14, would he be forbidden to write in this forum? Last time I checked, age restrictions depending on the country are as low as 12 (e.g. in Germany), so Jaxx might as well be 14.
Jaxx clearly said, that HE thinks, digital is better than anlaogue. Later in the thread he sugguest, that Max buys an (analogue) SNR-camera instead of a polaroid. But still you try to pinpoint him on that he'd only accept a digital option.
Life is strange mainly takes place in the year 2013. Good digicams of that period barely had above 10 megapixels, a resolution of 1080p and a horrible mix of optical and digital zoom - digicams of that time period wouldn't make it into modern smartphones nowadays. Of course Max was opposed to Digicams. So when Jaxx praised quality of modern day digicams, don't pretent that he is talking about the same thing Max would have had access to.

Oh no, someone gives another user a taste of their own medicine, how terrible. Anyways...

[Jaxx]

Sorry dear fanboy frankenbeans, I will ignore your saying.

@ Qiana
"In the old days, there was also a Polaroid 35 mm film, which I used a lot."
Yes, but not with Polaroid Instant cameras! Discussion is about Polaroid Instant camera like Polaroid 635 Supercolor and about https://us.polaroid.com/collections/instant-film I bet most people don't know any other Polaroid camera, I don't blame them for that.
I also used Kodachrome, of course...who didn't?! Haha.
You know the good and funny song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrRRhoS3KFk
"I got a Nikon camera. I love to take a photograph". He is so right! I guess he knows me.
-mama, take away Max' Polaroid.

"A painter is a painter AND artist. A photographer is a photographer AND artist."
Oh come on, not again please! (I've already tried to explain earlier). I know, BUT first and most important term is PAINTER, or PHOTOGRAPHER! If you see some one out there taking photos, you will say something like: "Oh, hello photographer!" Be honest, you won't say "artist". If you see a tree, you will call it a tree, and not "very big wooden plant!"and you will not say "small single part of wood / forrest" !!! If I hold a photograph in front of you and ask you: "What is this?" You will answer: "a photograph!" If I hold a DVD movie, you will answer with: "DVD movie". If I hold a book, you will call it -guess what- "Book"! ... If I will ask you "who is Sylvester Stallone?" you will answer me "Actor, Action-Actor, Moviemaker..." I am so sorry but the last term you will use probably will be "Artist" -although Sly is painting too! :-) Again, most people will answer such question with "Actor".

"Dreaming about becoming a photographer, implies dreaming of becoming (photo) artist."
Calling it photographer IS GOOD ENOUGH! There is no need for additional term! And again, "photographer" is the best term because it is the most specific term! But on the other hand "ART and "ARTIST" is so da mn unspecific... vague! :-( Because nowadays literally everything is called art and artist! So name it with best basic term! Pleaaase, I'm begging you ;-P Btw. a good cook is also an artist? No wait, please don't answer. And besides that, using terms like art and artist is kind of judgement, most of the time haha I don't wanna judge if someone is artist or not or if it's art or not. Every picture is art? Every little piece of music is art? Every short sentence someone wrote is art? I don't wanna get into that discussion again, I'm just too old for such time consuming. Now what comes into my sad mind is the da mn Third Reich, where Na zis decided what's art (and artist) and what's not, and how it has to be. Another good reason for avoiding term art(ist) -most of the time.

"An artist is a photographer, painter, writer, architect, constructor ... Universal Genius (like Leonard da Vinci, for example)."
Thank you, that is the way how I use term "Artist". If someone make different art forms. (I'm talking about the old classical common art forms, like painter, photographer, writer, sculptor...) Worse term than artist is genius! ;-P

"And yes, you are impying. You did say that Polaroid is a crap, because of its crappy image quality (which is truth) and you said that good photographers are not using crappy Polaroid (false)."
Nope, not implying. Just your interpretation! Good or let's say smart photographers... again, most almost all photographers don't use polaroid instant camera!

"As main camera" is irrelevant here. Almost no photographer ever used only one single type of camera."
NOOO, not irrelevant!!! Using main equipment has very good reasons! Because that will cause the best result for photographer. That's why van Gogh used (thick) oilpaint. If you try another thing does not mean that other thing is good ;-P
"Annie Leibovitz?
She used a Mamiya RZ67 in the 80/90’s. Now she uses a Canon Mark II or III and Hasselblad with digital backs. Polaroid? Haha yeah great.
"Walker Evans"?
from wikipedia: "Much of Evans's work from the FSA period uses the large-format, 8×10-inch (200×250 mm) view camera."
"Ansel Adams"?
It would be easy to come out and just say “Ansel Adams' Camera was a Deardorf 8×10 View Camera or a Hassleblad 500c Medium Format or any number of 4×5 cameras and 35 mm cameras among many other formats.” All would be true. (Polaroid instant camera? So what? Of course his main cameras were cameras with better quality! Haha)
"Andy Warhol?"
He was what we could call artist, but he was not a full-time photographer. Not a photographer as main-job. (I would say his main thing was graphic designer. Yes he did many other things, so what.) Sorry but again I am talking about full-time photographers. Will you find any famous full-time photographer used Polaroid instant camera only? Try if you want.
My own aunt and my sister, they used Polaroid instant cameras too, so sorry both are no artist.

Let me bring in Vivian Maier, great PHOTOGRAPHER! ;-P
"Vivian Maier’s first camera was a modest Kodak Brownie box camera with one shutter speed, no aperture and focus control. In 1952 she purchased her first Rolleiflex camera. Over the course of her career she used Rolleiflex 3.5T, Rolleiflex 3.5F, Rolleiflex 2.8C, Rolleiflex Automat and others. She later also used a Leica IIIc, an Ihagee Exakta, a Zeiss Contarex and various other SLR cameras." Did she ever used Polaroid instant camera? I don't know I don't care, I would say all her other cameras (and image quality) are much better! ;-P
Stop implying!!!

@ CZBGR Icepick
Nope I would say that I don't lie.
"That wasn't relevant to my point."
I thought the same when I read most of your words.

"Pretty much how to frame an image. He was teaching art, and as I pointed out in the beginning, that was the same stuff I was taught about art in college, and I wasn't doing anything with photography."
Kind of sad. But...few paintings?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Polaroid_Phone.jpg
LOL

PS: I will post little camera again so you can find my answers easier...

[CZBGR Icepick]

Originally posted by Jaxx:

Nope I would say that I don't lie.

Well, you did. Several times. Even now.

Originally posted by Jaxx:

"That wasn't relevant to my point."
I thought the same when I read most of your words.

Clearly you have comprehension issues.

Originally posted by Jaxx:

"Pretty much how to frame an image. He was teaching art, and as I pointed out in the beginning, that was the same stuff I was taught about art in college, and I wasn't doing anything with photography."
Kind of sad. But...few paintings?

I've done several different works of art, and I'm mainly an art collector who also happens to have met artists, including some who are known among other celebrities to commission works for them. So, I do know a thing or two about the whole business, and this thread of yours has been a long ridiculous meaningless rant hating on Polaroids.

You have a narrow view of what art is on your own terms, and say things contradictory to others you've attempted to agree. You're not making sense, and others can see it, especially the number of times you've been proven wrong. You're just embarrassing yourself at this point.

[Jaxx]

PS: I don't collect much art from stangers, especially I won't buy it, I produce haha sorry so funny right now "art" by myself. And I get few things from companioned haha artists. I also did run a haha again art gallery. And I know few artists. (And also I did photograph them :-) I sell own pictures from time to time. Do I hate Polaroid instant cameras? Hmm I wouldn't say that. But I say that there is a big hype about Polaroid. Polaroid is overhyped overrated. And I would say game Life is Strange is part of that hype, or the game itself is a result of that hype! (And they could use another camera in game if they want, just few little changes in game and story and it would work!)

Why don't you hype other cameras that much?! They are soooorry "better"! Please hype the other cameras! I would love to hear / read about devs opinion about Polaroid Instant camera!

I'm just saying Polaroid is dam n overhyped overrated.
(They even use Polaroid as main thing in arty game with art class and everything...)
Because of what? Because it's so arty farty and analog and vintage?! And better than all other cameras? And probably because it's the only old camera most people know?!
There are so many other better cameras for PHOTOGRAPHERS.

[Qiana]

Originally posted by Jaxx:

"A painter is a painter AND artist. A photographer is a photographer AND artist."
:Camera: Oh come on, not again please! (I've already tried to explain earlier). I know, BUT first and most important term is PAINTER, or PHOTOGRAPHER! If you see some one out there taking photos, you will say something like: "Oh, hello photographer!" Be honest, you won't say "artist". If you see a tree, you will call it a tree, and not "very big wooden plant!"and you will not say "small single part of wood / forrest" !!! If I hold a photograph in front of you and ask you: "What is this?" You will answer: "a photograph!" If I hold a DVD movie, you will answer with: "DVD movie". If I hold a book, you will call it -guess what- "Book"! ... If I will ask you "who is Sylvester Stallone?" you will answer me "Actor, Action-Actor, Moviemaker..." I am so sorry but the last term you will use probably will be "Artist" -although Sly is painting too! :-) Again, most people will answer such question with "Actor".

"Dreaming about becoming a photographer, implies dreaming of becoming (photo) artist."
:Camera: Calling it photographer IS GOOD ENOUGH! There is no need for additional term! And again, "photographer" is the best term because it is the most specific term! But on the other hand "ART and "ARTIST" is so da mn unspecific... vague! :-( Because nowadays literally everything is called art and artist! So name it with best basic term! Pleaaase, I'm begging you ;-P Btw. a good cook is also an artist? No wait, please don't answer. And besides that, using terms like art and artist is kind of judgement, most of the time haha I don't wanna judge if someone is artist or not or if it's art or not. Every picture is art? Every little piece of music is art? Every short sentence someone wrote is art? I don't wanna get into that discussion again, I'm just too old for such time consuming. Now what comes into my sad mind is the da mn Third Reich, where Na zis decided what's art (and artist) and what's not, and how it has to be. Another good reason for avoiding term art(ist) -most of the time.

Your reasoning is flawed, because a photographer and a painter are very different terms in one thing:

Photographs are made with a (photo) camera. Calling a photo-artist a photographer works fine, because photo-graphy is a result of a photo-artist using a photo-equipment.

As of, "you wouldn't call a photographer an artist" is truth for the painters too — one would usually call it by the name that people usually use in everyday speech — a painter — and not an artist.

A photographer and a painter will still stay artists.

That not every photograph or sketch is art, it's a whole another story.

Calling someone a painter is actually the wrong term, as it is a general term for many things — in a wider sense of the term, a photographer is also some kind of painter (with light).

If you wanted to make the correct comparison, you would have to bring used terminology on the same level, and then you would get something like "bucketeer", "brusher", "chalker", "penciler", "scratcher" etc. (vs. "photographer"), 'cause they are all in one category known as painters.

At the end of the day ...

PLEASE try to understand that your text-walls are only your own personal opinion, that matters only to you, and completely irrelevant for the rest of the world, and that repeating your opinion will never make it to become more or less truth, neither it will persuade anybody here — it is your own personal opinion and that's fine for us.

Nobody here needs your explanation on 'is photography art?'. Everybody here has DuckQwantBinGoogle and everybody here can read and think, and they can all make themselves their own opinions.

Here just a few DuckQwantBinGoogle results, out of some millions:

http://www.visual-arts-cork.com/photography-art.htm

https://www.studiobinder.com/blog/is-photography-art-debate/

https://www.artphotoacademy.com/photography-as-an-art-form/

https://www.britannica.com/technology/photography/Photography-as-art

You told us your own, very personal view, we did read it, and we agreed or disagreed, and now it is time for you to realize, that the time has come for you to stop insisting and persuading other when they obviously disagree.

Over and out.

[Jaxx]

Hmmm nope And you won't tell me what to do.
Also because there are many people online, not just you and few others, for discussion...
Of course everything I wrote is my own, very personal view... Are you kidding me? I didn't say the opposite. I can't tell you what your opinion is!

"A photographer and a painter will still stay artists."
So what? We all know that... but still most people will call them "photographer" and the other one "painter". So people understand immediately what he or she is doing! and what we are talking about? If I say "photographer" people understand immediately that I'm talking about photographs! Cool huh?!

"Calling someone a painter is actually the wrong term, as it is a general term for many things — in a wider sense of the term, a photographer is also some kind of painter (with light)."
I agree with "it is a general term" so that's the reason why some people say "art painter" or "artistic painter" to avoid confusion with hmmm wall painter or car painter (varnisher). I like specific terms. On the other hand, the use of term "artist" is also confusing. Most of the time, if you search for artists of old times, like i did ... "artists of the 18 century" you will get https://www.artst.org/18th-century-artists/ All painters, only (art) painters. No musician, no writer. But if you search for 21th century you probably will also find Madonna or Karl Lagerfeld on the list. It's weird, all the term and how people use it.

"a photographer is also some kind of painter (with light)."
Oh come on smart guy, don't say light painter. I disagree! Because that's just a ridiculous misuse of the word "paint". Yes I know some people say "painting with light" because light hits the film / digital sensor, and they also use different light (lamps) in studio for their photographs. ---> specific meaning of "painting" is using a brush or at least some other tool with pain / colours. So please don't call photographer "painter" indirectly.

"Nobody here needs your explanation on 'is photography art?'"
Nooo? Are you serious? Because right now I myself are not serious but ironic because you are funny. I already thought the whole world need my guideline!

PS
Can we see Max Polaroid photos online, somewhere? Game is not installed, no screenshots left so I can not see her oh so great pieces of hyped polaroid snapshot art (LOL sorry). Would be interesting to see her photos. Yes i can remember that wall with polaroids on, but I can not remember her polaroids big on screen with details, just tiny undetailed comic-like pictures. I can remember playing the game and when I saw blue butterfly I used the games polaroid for nice little picture, but I can't remember the outcome. There is no (only) Max polaroids gallery online? Any one can post some?

[Prinegon]

Originally posted by Jaxx:

PS
Can we see Max Polaroid photos online, somewhere?

The game has a wikia about it. Every diary entry and all pictures can be accessed there.

[Zyonretranki]

Man, it's a game were the protagonist can control the time. And you complain that using a Polaroid is not realistic?

[Prinegon]

Originally posted by Zyon:

Man, it's a game were the protagonist can control the time. And you complain that using a Polaroid is not realistic?

One thing has nothing to do with the other thing. Just because a fiction introduces an alternative ruleset (like timetravel) doesn't mean no rules apply all the sudden.
If you watched game of thrones, you wouldn't accept the Lanister family to have invented space lasers, since "what does it matter in a show, where dragons are featured"? And stranger things would really have some explaining to do, if the kids all of the sudden start to play with a PS5. Hey, product placement is profitable -okay, the PS5 is not cannon for the 80s, but hey, so isn't D'artagnan.
Max Timetravel is something that got introduced within the ruleset of this reality and given some internal logic. There is a discussion to be had, if this ruleset is welldefined or not, but it is got introduced as part of this fiction. The usage of Polaroid cameras on the other hand might be and oversight. Therefore the question, if this is acceptable or a problem is valid and an argument for both sides can be made.

[CZBGR Icepick]

Originally posted by Prinegon:

Originally posted by Zyon:

Man, it's a game were the protagonist can control the time. And you complain that using a Polaroid is not realistic?

One thing has nothing to do with the other thing. Just because a fiction introduces an alternative ruleset (like timetravel) doesn't mean no rules apply all the sudden.
If you watched game of thrones, you wouldn't accept the Lanister family to have invented space lasers, since "what does it matter in a show, where dragons are featured"? And stranger things would really have some explaining to do, if the kids all of the sudden start to play with a PS5. Hey, product placement is profitable -okay, the PS5 is not cannon for the 80s, but hey, so isn't D'artagnan.
Max Timetravel is something that got introduced within the ruleset of this reality and given some internal logic. There is a discussion to be had, if this ruleset is welldefined or not, but it is got introduced as part of this fiction. The usage of Polaroid cameras on the other hand might be and oversight. Therefore the question, if this is acceptable or a problem is valid and an argument for both sides can be made.

How does that make Polaroids less viable?