Life is Strange™

Life is Strange™

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Jaxx Jun 26, 2021 @ 4:36pm
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Polaroid Instant film is silly and unrealistic -for (most!) photographers!
I had a nice ;) conversation (another thread about Max using Polaroid camera in game) because I wrote that Max using Polaroid Instant (Positive) Film is hmmm not realistic. So, if you don't mind, read my long ;) valid argument.
If you would know about photography, you wouldn't say that Max' Polaroid Instant (600?) is a really good camera with really good film / image quality and Usability for photographers purpose.

IT IS big ridiculous cliché that analog photography (camera) is "better" than digital camera! ESPECIALLY NOT Polaroid!!! It is just unrealistic (but ridiculous) romantic glorified (from some one with no clue, dear devs!) that it's so much better if she use Polaroid. It's just silly! It's big facepalm! :steamfacepalm: If you would know about photography, you would agree with me! Max really would love to be a "real" photographer, right? As far as I can remember that's her big dream, right? Beeing a "real" considered photographer, with good photos and exhibitions, right? Than it is just RIDICULOUS (and devs "fault") that Max use Polaroid camera! Do you know about the POOR image quality of polaroid instant positive film photos? Do you know that it's not easy to duplicate or enlarge Polaroid Instant (Positive) Image for exhibitions? It's as silly as some one desperatly wanted to be a great artist painter, but instead of using oil paints or at least acrylic paint, you use cheap poor watercolours from Walmart. Yes, you can make some nice watercolour painting with such paint, but you will never be able to paint pictures like Rembrandt or van Gogh... Also such cheap watercolours are not durable for a long time, at least not if you hang them on walls with UV light, because cheap watercolours don't have non-fading pigments.

It's ridiculous like some one want to be a great guitarist and try it with cheap little plastic kids guitar -also from walmart ;-) Just ridiculous and unrealistic! No real person with such dream would act like that! A real human beeing with the wish of becoming "real" photographer and if she would care about image quality would not use Polaroid but would try to get better camera, at least old analog or (even better) digital Single-lens reflex camera.

Using Polaroid is part of the story of the game?
Well as far as I can remember, it has not to be Polaroid. She needs the photos as developed / printed photos, so she can travel thru time, right? Yeah so what? There is not printer in her farty arty school? She can't develop her photos in Darkroom? (You don't need that much time for that!) Hell, she even could buy a digital camera with build-in-printer, but with better image quality than polaroid (positive film). She also could use digital screens from digital camera or computer for showing photo so she could travel back in time. So there are few options to avoid that ludicrous unrealistic cliché Polaroid thing! Representing Polaroid camera as oh so "romantic" and "better" camera is just silly, stupid. And hell yeah I don't like it, yeah because it is just too silly and unrealistic stupid! As i said before, no real serious heavy-duty (wanna-be) artist Photographer (like Max) would use Polaroid as one and only main camera! :steamfacepalm:

THAT make the whole story or let me say Max' character UNREALISTIC and unbelievable / implausibly. So that destroys the whole "story" (Max character).
Especially if you want to be a real pro. (And no one would use Pola if he or she would care about image quality) It's almost unbelievable that they allow her to use one. In real art school they would give her a "real" camera, so she could learn about the process of developing photos. Damn please give her a good camera with good picture quality, something with photography negative film or digital sensor with Raw image format. But Polaroid...that also means that Max can't develop (or change artistically) her photos in darkroom or with photoshop -a big part of the whole artistic photographic process. Developing photos in darkroom or photoshop would be personal style. Polaroid is not personal style. Polaroid is instant crap with crappy image quality. Just good enough for a quick review (image) or very very private photos no one should see. (Because you don't give away negative film to some one else for developing...) If she really would care about real and artistic photography (as she mentioned in game??) she would never ever use a Pola. Sorry.

https://steamcommunity.com/app/319630/discussions/0/1291816569118445775/?ctp=24

My father is a guitar player (acoustic and E-guitar) and musician since almost 50 years. And he used to take analog photos, including photo developing, now he use digital cameras. I myself am a photographer as well, and I also tried to develope negative (black / white) film in past. I can't remember how many minutes, but you don't need hours! As I said before, sound quality of plastic guitar (from posted video) is crap, and normaly you can't put amplifier cable in it, no pro would use it for serious things like concerts and good recordings -maybe just for fun, for beeing silly. Back to photo cameras, Polaroid is instant camera for quick fun, but with very poor image quality. As I said before, no pro would ever... If you wanna become a real photographer you also would not use Polaroid. You would try to get old analog or digital camera. Also, as far as I can remember, in game Max talked little bit about few other photographers, it seems to me she admire them... but then she don't use similar cameras like they use(d) but instead of that she use Polaroid. LOL *facepalm* I can't remember if there was a real good explanation for that in game. But fact is still (no matter what you say) that using Polaroid in art class is just tooo silly and unrealistic, if you want to be a real photographer! Even "Lomo" cameras like "Holga" or "Diana" are much better than Polaroid!

You learn almost nothing about photography if you use Pola. Nothing about analog, nothing about digital photo image developing. (You also can't evolve your own style and style of image developing.) You just might learn little bit about framing the shoot / photo scene, that's all. There is NO need to use Polaroid. BUT there are many good reasons to use other cameras! Again, she don't need darkroom. She also could use digital camera -welcome to the future! But she only use Polaroid, which means she does not care about image quality (and she does not care if she could use or could not use tiny Polaroid images with poor image quality for exhibitions) , she does not care to learn about photography and about film developing, analog or digital, she just don't care and don't want to know / learn. She don't care about The Craft of Photography. So at the end she just really don't care to become a photographer. So all her previous words in game about being a soon-to-be photographer and about photography and famous photographers is just silly unsubstantial empty blah blah. You can advocate devs silly decision for using Polaroid in game as much as you want, but the truth is, in real life Max would never ever use Polaroid (especially not as only main) camera, if she would love to become a real photographer and if she really would care about photography and image quality.

@ Frankenbeans, no you dont get it and sorry you are wrong. Yes I am a photographer, and I am talking about The Craft of Photography. Photography is much more than just pushing the little button!!! But with Polaroid you can't do much more than just pushing the button! There are no lenses you can change, there are no photographic analog filters you could use (as far as I know) for Pola. As far as I can remember there are also no settings for Aperture and Exposure time, well not many. There is NO (own) image developing! NO own artistic style. Almost nothing you could change, not own artistic style. It's just aim and shoot. Just using Polaroid and just pushing the button is -sorry- just not enough! You are not a real photographer if you don't know / care about the craft of photography, including all such things. Like camera lenses, filters, film / sensor size... camera technology... IMAGE DEVELOPING!!! Also -and again- if you make images, you care about image quality, and almost all "real" photographer would prefer a "real" camera with better image quality!!! Because at the end, the image is the final product and you want to see it and you want that other people can see it, clear. But Polaroid image quality is like... nope thanks!!! Just show me one real photographer, okay now I mean a real pro who use only Polaroid! You say that you are a photographer? Right now I doubt! And it's not about analog VS digital as you said. It's about good image quality, about the craft of photography, it's about using and "playing" with different camera equipment. Changing camera things (like lenses and settings) and giving image different styles. You can't do all that with Polaroid! Sorry to say so but fact is Polaroid is kind of crap, and is almost the most unimportant part in the world of photography when it comes to image quality and artistic style and using photography equipment. What camera do you use? Nevermind. You just could name some from internet. And I still would feel doubt.

You are wrong, I know a lot about art, in fact I am artist, photographer and painter. And I still say using ONLY Polaroid as only main camera if she wants to be a real photographer is just not enough! Yeah yeah ART, I get it... haha Art, okay :steamfacepalm: Because triggering the cameras button of Polaroid is so arty, farty arty. Pushing down the button is so much personal art style. Just framing the image, and pushing the button, yeah great art. Sorry, I'm ironic now. If she would really care about art AND photography she would love to use and learn "real" cameras with film and digital and image developing, but she don't care! Being Artist and being Photographer is much more than just pushing cameras button, especially if it's just a Polaroid! Oh, there is a special reason in game why she use Polaroid? Sorry, I can't remember. However, if she wants to be an real photographer and then she just use Polaroid is still silly and unrealistic.

:steamfacepalm: :steamfacepalm:
Originally posted by Qiana:
Originally posted by CZBGR Icepick:
The art the artists make out of Polaroids are worth more than what photographers make today.

Agree.
Two already disqualified lying fanboys without any clue!
:steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis: :steamthis:
Last edited by Jaxx; Jul 4, 2021 @ 7:55pm
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Showing 1-15 of 162 comments
charly4711 Jun 26, 2021 @ 11:15pm 
That's a pretty narrow understanding of what art is. You don't even know if she knows film processing and I personally feel like most people have moved on to digital, anyway, but ...
Yes, framing the image actually IS a big part of art in photography. You try to create an expression with your image. Some people believe it needs to be realistic, some don't. Some people create art with sticks and rusty nails. Technology _can_ play a big role, but it doesn't have to, as long as you create the effect you want. Sometimes it helps if your own style is something nobody else uses and sometimes limiting yourself in terms of techniques you're using actually sparks off creativity.
TLDR: Yes, I can see how Max wouldn't be a commercial photographer with a polaroid camera ... but an artist? sure.
The fact that you don't realize photography is an art form, and not just a business shows you don't know what you're talking about and that you're just in it for the money, with no love for the art itself. It also means you're a sellout with no real love for the profession.
If you're purely looking at it from a business standpoint, yes digital will in 99% of the time be the best solution.
Same with paintings. Digital paintings will be the best solution in most cases if you're looking at it from a purely "lets make as much money as easily as possible" point of view. But that does not invalidate other art forms when it comes to painting. Like watercolour, oil colour, pencil, etc.
Same goes with photography and digital vs photographic film.
Originally posted by charly4711:
That's a pretty narrow understanding of what art is. You don't even know if she knows film processing and I personally feel like most people have moved on to digital, anyway, but ...
Yes, framing the image actually IS a big part of art in photography. You try to create an expression with your image. Some people believe it needs to be realistic, some don't. Some people create art with sticks and rusty nails. Technology _can_ play a big role, but it doesn't have to, as long as you create the effect you want. Sometimes it helps if your own style is something nobody else uses and sometimes limiting yourself in terms of techniques you're using actually sparks off creativity.
TLDR: Yes, I can see how Max wouldn't be a commercial photographer with a polaroid camera ... but an artist? sure.
Totally agree with you.
I think it's such a shame that people act like they know everything about the art form, and at the same time goes on a long rant that shows just how little they actually understand about what makes the art, actual art.
Last edited by Decider of the sane; Jun 27, 2021 @ 2:10am
󠀡 Jun 27, 2021 @ 6:24am 
There's two arguments I can make here: in real life, people still use equipment like that at times for a specific aesthetic or vibe. My second is that it's a video game and they very clearly try and leave room for the game to feel just as cozy as emotionally heavy as it does, and these elements kind of work together. It kinda captures that "Everyone else is having fun, why aren't I?" energy perfectly.
Jaxx Jun 27, 2021 @ 10:07am 
First of all, thanks to everyone participating fair and nice in the little discussion. It's interesting to see how many people react very ... let's say passionate. So to all others, please don't beat me dead -dear fanboys and art experts :steammocking:

As far as I can remember I never said something about art. The question here never was "can someone use polaroid for making art?" (And no, my collected wall of text is not ridiculous. Just arguments, and for better understanding!) It's NOT about analog vs digital, it's NOT about art vs technology... And please don't teach me art, I know art.
I only said that: Polaroid is a camera with very poor image quality! Also polaroid images are inconvenient and not good for enlarging and for exhibitions. (Max had enlarged Polaroids at the end of the game, right?) Additionally I said that Max in real life would NOT use Polaroid as only or main camera if she would care about image quality (and exhibitions), and if she really wants to become a photographer!

Yes, some artists used Polaroid -so what?! Just look at ALL OTHER know or famous photographers and look which cameras they use (as main camera). Polaroid? NOPE. Some good reasons for that are: Image quality of Polaroid is very poor, tiny and poor, probably the most poor image quality I know! Polarloid has no negative film (or digital raw image) so they can NOT develope or change anything, but most photographers "love" developing photos. Most photographers want more than just aiming and shooting. Yes, framing the scene is important, but there is so much more about photography. The craft of photography... It's so much more fun with a tool with different settings, so many different options and outcomes. So much more creativity. But if you want a easy-to-use point and shoot camera, there are other cameras! (There is no good reason for Polaroid. But many good reasons for other cameras -that's why most photographer don't care about Polaroid but use other cameras!!!) You want fun point-and-shoot camera? Great, try cameras like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toy_camera (Hmmm, I don't like the term Toy Camera!) But there is negative film and much better image quality! Even some sort of camera obscura is better if you use hmm exposure-able photographic paper for catching the scene. Also you could use digital camera without lens but with tiny hole in Lens cap (buy a second Lens cap for that ;)

Again, IMAGE QUALITY ...sorry guy, is important. There is nothing wrong about what I call good image quality. Real polaroids don't look as good as in the game, you might know. Image quality of Polaroid is like crap, especially if you scan and enlarge and print it big, like Max did, she did that, right? Also a big part of photography is indeed working with different lenses and focal length (and Bokeh, or sharp images), also some lense filters, and different aperture. That is a very important and creative part of photography. And if you ask pro photographers (and haha artists as well) most of them might will say that developing the image is also very important and very creative process to finally get their work of art, and to evolve really own artistic style. You can't do all that with Polaroid. Pola is very limited! Good enough for "art" but not good enough and too limited for real photographers -if you use Polaroid as only main camera. So my conclusion is that Polaroid is the most crappy point-and-shoot camera ever!

There is a big hype around Polaroid, there was and there is again. The only real good thing about Pola was / is that picture come out instantly like a little baby ;-) and you can enjoy it instantly. But the rest is overhyped crap. Yes, few artists used polaroid. But pro photographers don't care much about Polaroid. In the world of pro photography Polaroid was most of the time nothing more than review camera for quick review images, before you use the good expensive film! If you wanna be artist you could use almost everything to create pictures, if you wanna be photographer then there are so many other good cameras for you and with them you will learn so much more about photography. As far as I can remember Max did not want to be an "Artist" like painter or picture-maker, she want to be a Photographer. Am I wrong that photography is her big passion?! So my opinion is that real life Max would try to get another camera! So she can get better image quality, and negative film or digital RAWs, and can use and learn about developing, and about different lenses and focal length and different aperture and so she can use all that, together with much more options and creativity and more different outcomes. Instead of sticking to crappy Polaroid because Pola is sooo romantic good-old-times charming whatever! *facepalm* Polaroid is a niche product because there are so many other much more "better" cameras for photographers than Polaroid. AND THEY USE OTHER CAMERAS!!! And it's just unrealistic that Max only use Polaraid in game If she wanna be what I call (sorry) "real" photographer. PS: Does Max shake her instant polaroid films? Haha, I hope not, would be silly too. That's my haha point of view. Thanks for reading. Have a nice day. See you another day -maybe.




talemore Jun 27, 2021 @ 10:35am 
Polaroid fades away with time like memories

BUT

You forgot why the polaroid was in the game?

Life is strange is a movie-game based on The Butterfly Effect where the main character uses a polaroid photo to travel into a dimension and nosebleed after every time who is somehow connected to a tumor in his brain

Life is strange uses many concepts similar to those found in Spec Ops The line

The menu has a side character who is called Joe.

There's an american flag who is upside down who keep changing when you progress through the game and Joe is found either there sitting or not on screen.

Choices for our hero seem to be important but as the story goes it is revealed that Max wished for these choices to be important. Similar to Walker in Spec ops; The line who has to face with the truth that his actions are not that important in the grand scheme.
Jaxx Jun 27, 2021 @ 10:54am 
Thanks for your comment.
Yes I forgot.
But...she also could use other developed / printed photos, there is no need for polaroid. At least I can't remember. Thanks.

And about cheap plastic guitars, well I don't care about the options for using amplifier with plastic crap. The truth is, no good successful pro (known) musician would use such plastic thing for concerts and recordings because sound quality is BAD and using amplifier for such thingy would be too inconvenient. There is a GOOD REASON that pros use good equipment! Because of the quality and because it's "easy" to use. So please stop advocate the use of cheap plastic toy guitars -that's silly! Or wait, you use them, right?
Last edited by Jaxx; Jul 3, 2021 @ 3:16am
Decider of the sane Jun 27, 2021 @ 11:39am 
Originally posted by Jaxx:
First of all, thanks to everyone participating fair and nice in the little discussion. It's interesting to see how many people react very ... let's say passionate. So to all others, please don't beat me dead -dear fanboys and art experts :steammocking:
Pretty ironic that you accuse us of reacting like that when I only answer like that because you started out with the ♥♥♥♥♥♥ "if you disagree you don't know what you're talking about" argument. If you had an ounce of self-awareness you'd realize I'm just using your own away of arguing against you.

Originally posted by Jaxx:
snip
Another lengthy paragraph that essentially boils down to you saying "I don't know anything about art"
It doesn't matter if you think one medium is better than the other. Art is about technical proficiency, beauty, emotional power, or conceptual ideas. What medium the artist chooses to use is irrelevant. What is relevant is the final product.
Jaxx Jun 27, 2021 @ 12:00pm 
Hello fanboy. I repeat, it's NOT about art vs technology... And please don't teach me art, I know art. I don't talk about art, do you understand?! It's not about art. I am talking about photography. I am talking about Max wanna become a haha photographer -by using a Polaroid all the time LOL. I am NOT talking about "oh you can use whatever you want for art blah blah, so you also can use crappy Polaroid because final product is art blah blah". Wait, you say "Art is about technical proficiency" ? Yeah...with Polaroid? LOL Polaroid is technical crap. If you want artistic and funny and "creative" images surprising with point-and-shoot cameras you can use cameras like Lomo, you don't know Lomo, don't you?! Yeah you can make pictures with Polaroid camera, but crap pictures compared to all other cameras! "What medium the artist chooses to use is irrelevant." Nope, it's not irrelevant. It's a very important choice, and photographers choose "good" cameras with good image quality and the capability for different creative use of the tool and developing / editing for different outcome -so they DONT use polaroid!
"What is relevant is the final product." Yeah, and the final product of Polaroid is tiny image with crap quality! :steamfacepalm: I'm talking about Polaroid is the worst camera you can get for photography! And photographer use other cameras because of that! There is no good reason for using Polaroid! use Lomo camera instead!

PS (It seems to me you know nothing about photography -so that's why you instead talking about art all the time... But everything can be called art, you could paint picture with your own s hit and call it art and you might find some one buying it.)

I am talking about a really good tool for photographers, and Polaroid is NOT a good tool for photographers. All other cameras are way better tools. All pro photographers use other cameras as main tool! (And if you are really interested in photography you also use other camera, because you only learn more about photography if you use typical photographers equipment and tools, like differnet lenses, filters, films, RAWs, Developing!...

But Polaroid is just like the analog version of your smartphone.
Last edited by Jaxx; Jun 27, 2021 @ 12:30pm
Decider of the sane Jun 27, 2021 @ 12:31pm 
Originally posted by Jaxx:
Hello fanboy. I repeat, it's NOT about art vs technology... And please don't teach me art, I know art. I don't talk about art, do you understand?! It's not about art. I am talking about photography. I am talking about Max wanna become a haha photographer -by using a Polaroid all the time LOL.
"I know art" they say after writing multiple posts explaining how they don't know art.
Photography IS art. What we see Max doing in the game IS art. As I've explained so many times before what medium the artist uses to express their art is irrelevant. Yes, one might have bigger advantages than the other. But that does not mean one medium makes no sense to use. It's all up to the individual artist to decide how they want to express their art.
Jaxx Jun 27, 2021 @ 12:40pm 
Come on, dont be silly. Dont you understand what I am sayin?!
I know that Photography is art. I didn't say opposite! I make haha Art since many years, with cameras and paint, and few other things. You still dont get it. But what i am saying is that if you wanna become photographer you will not only use Polaroid as main camera, but you would try another camera as fast as you can. And, as far as I can remember, Max is not interested to be artist, but she wants to be "photographer". Am I wrong? As far as I can remember she talked alot about other photographers and photos and photo exhibitions. Photography is her passion. Not "just art". She did not talk much about painters (or musicans) right?! She did'nt talk about van Gogh or about writers -am I wrong? She is not at painters exhibition but at photographers exhibition. So again, if she wants to become photographer, using Polaroid all the time as main camera is just silly. Oh and please remember the poor crappy image quality!

PS
"What we see Max doing in the game IS art."
Well, I don't agree 100 %. Let me explain. If she only use photo camera, than the main term for her doing is not art but photography! It's called photography! If you take photos, they call you photographer -it's photography! Yes, photography is kind of art, a part of the big world of art, but again it's called Photography! So the main term of Max would always be "Photographer" NOT artist! Yeah sure YOU could call her "artist" to express your great feelings about her (and Chloe! ;) and about her pictures, but again, if you produce photos you are Photographer. If you call some one "Artist" he or she produce more than just photos. Like paintings, or poetry and writings or sculptures. That is the difference of using terms like "artist" and "photographer" I like to use. So there is a difference between "artist" and "photographer" and "Poet" if you will. But using term "photographer" is common if someone produce photos only! Wait, did Max paint something? And maybe time traveling is art too, I don't know. I don't like time travelling that much, it's so exhausting, I always feel so weak and empty after travel.
Last edited by Jaxx; Jun 27, 2021 @ 12:58pm
charly4711 Jun 27, 2021 @ 1:07pm 
Ok, you are right and I have my quiet back, kthxbai
Originally posted by Jaxx:
text
implying that you can't learn what makes a good shot without using digital lmao


You're also forgetting that Max herself stated "i'm analog, not digital", and this too https://i.imgur.com/O15GYzC.png
Last edited by Decider of the sane; Jun 27, 2021 @ 1:10pm
Jaxx Jun 27, 2021 @ 2:44pm 
I am implying nothing! Stop putting words in my mouth, if you know what I mean.
Just in case if i didn't mentioned it before, it also has nothing do to with analog vs digital! I didn't say anything bad about analog, I also didn't praise profusely digital cameras. (But I did mention Lomo cameras, which are analog cameras btw.) Do you read my words? I don't think so. But if you wish, let me say something about difference of image quality between analog vs digital. If analog film is not big than digital image has better qualitiy, especially with bigger digital sensor -fact! And quality of 35 mm photo film is NOT better than modern digital camera sensors, when it comes to image quality! You need medium format cameras or even bigger films to reach image quality of modern digital SLR cameras! And movies filmed with analog Super 8 film has NOT the same image quality like modern digital video cameras, when it comes to clear colourfull crispy sharp images -fact! I started photography many years ago with old analog Nikon Single-lens reflex camera with 35 mm film, and I know the difference! But wait analog is so much romantic and charming, right?! :steamfacepalm: I know what good shots without using digital cameras are, I did such shots and I even developed them, also BW (Black and White).


You know Vivian Maier, no? She was not rich, but she used few different analog cameras. And her photos are great, the scene itself and also the image quality is from "good enough" to "great". Max could use such cameras, or newer cameras same style.If she -Max- would be a real person I bet she would try to buy / use such cameras like Vivian Maier used. http://www.vivianmaier.com/about-vivian-maier/ I could name you many good analog cameras but haha I'm too lazy now. Find out yourself with internet and google. (I bet the only analog camera you know is Polaroid!) But when it comes to image quality of analog cameras, I would say that the image quality of Polaroid is the worst! Again, the worst! And also again, Polaroid is just a point-and-shoot-camera. No different lenses, no real settings /changes, no zoom, no considerable bokeh. No camera things you can play with. There is almost nothing but a button for "let's make another picture". No different aspect ratio, no differenet films you could use (or different colours / contrast seetings for digital cameras). No own photo developing! No different paper for print! Almost nothing!


But you still say ... what? What do you say?! I say that Polaroid is probably the most crappy camera with most crappy image quality on this planet. And if real Maxy would love to become real photographer and if she would be really interested in (world of) photography and what belong to photography she would immediately run to the next Flea market and would search for some old analog camera -a good one, at least better than Pola- or she would ask her teacher, he (or someone else) for sure could lend her one. It is weird that he don't lend her one! But can you say any good plausible reason for using Polaroid instead of any other analog camera?! if you wanna become real photographer... I told you so many reasons / arguments why Polaroid is hmm crap and hmm not good enough or just not enough for real photograpy / photographer. But you still say that -what do you say?- that... that... Polaroid is the best choice? Yes? Oh come on, don't be pig-headed silly.
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Date Posted: Jun 26, 2021 @ 4:36pm
Posts: 162