About stealing from the accessibility fund

[3477]

It occurs to me that some people might be misinterpreting what is going on in this decision point. Now it's clear Chloe wants to steal something - I'm making no excuses for that, and Chloe's "is this person an ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥" applied theory of property rights is canon in BtS - but it's clear that any original intent was not contemplating anything close to the dollar value of $5000 USD and she did not break into the office knowing that envelope full of cash would be in there.

The misinterpretation, I believe, is in people thinking that Chloe subjectively intends to steal from a disabled accessibility fund and not from a much less undeserving target.

Here are the factors to consider:

• When we're next in front of the dorms, Max finds a sign indicating the status of the accessibility upgrades - and reacts with surprise that they were actually going on.
  
• Before that, however, Max is in the alternate timeline going through Chloe's stuff. There is a letter from Principal Wells saying they can't accommodate Chloe. Max reacts with knowing and cynical disappointment.
  
• Max's journal will comment on the questionable bona fides of this purported fund.
  
• The entire context of the break-in was to discover what shady secrets Wells has been keeping about things related to the Prescotts.
  
• The Prescotts are a major donor to the school.
  
• C&M have just learned the true extent to which Nathan's lengthy rap-sheet-like file had been expunged by the school to keep his official record perfect.
  
• Wells' office appears to C&M to be decorated in a particularly tacky way designed to show off wealth, presumably to attract rich donors and parents of prospective students.
  
• We know that Wells saved the school from financial disaster some years ago.
  
• Chloe cynically characterizes Wells as only caring about money.
  
• The contrast of Wells' regular uptightness and his binge drinking at night, combined with the other shady goings and favouritism at Blackwell, have already primed C&M to be on the lookout for secret patronages, hush money, bribes... and the sort of money laundering that goes with that sort of thing.
  
• There was never any prior talk, no announcements or anything that we'd seen before this, that there were any improvement projects going on to help accessibility. C&M, and the player, have no information suggesting that any fundraising efforts ever existed for this.
  
• If you refuse to let Chloe steal the money, the first thing out of Max's mouth is to ask rhetorically if Chloe is really willing to steal from the handicapped fund, making it clear that she believes, or at minimum is willing to hedge her bets, that this money really is intended for such a fund.
  
• There are steps and stairs all over Blackwell. An improvement project like this should be huge and fairly disruptive - not the sort of thing you fund with an envelope full of cash.
  
• The $5000 is all in fresh, flat bills, in a marked envelope, concealed and left in the office overnight.

Wells is just a school principal and not a notary or banker or escrow agent so there probably isn't any major regulatory breach with this, but as a person who is routinely entrusted with fundraising matters and confidential issues on behalf of an institution he would definitely understand the reasons why such rules exist. Why did he not deposit this clearly earmarked money right away, instead of letting it be exposed overnight to a potential break-in?

Even if it had been a completely anonymous gift of cash, either (a) there's some rule about accepting it that Wells would be subject to, in which case he'd need to report it; or (b) it's perfectly fine, in which case there's nothing stopping him from depositing the funds.

Of course, now that I've typed this out it becomes clear that there could have been an innocent explanation: he got the cash on Tuesday and the whole Kate Marsh fiasco meant he had no time to go to the bank. But that's me coming up with this explanation, 4 months after seeing this scenario, and not looking at the envelope in a room filled with noveau-riche bling and conveniently expunged donor's son files.

In other words, everything about that envelope was pointing to laundered bribe money.

Laundered bribe money that, as far as Chloe could see, Wells &co. were cynical enough to disguise with a made-up "handicapped fund".

The moral choice, when faced with this apparent factual matrix, is no longer really about respecting other people's property versus self-serving greed, but about whether Max still has any hope left in Blackwell and its administration to do the right thing.

[Qiana]

I like when the people make themselves thoughts, however this case is crystal-clear.

Chloe shouldn't have even thought about stealing that money, no matter how do you turn it.

Even stealing the stolen is a crime and inexcusable — stealing the money from a thief makes you a thief.

[3477]

She definitely stole it in my first playthrough! :V


EDIT: Wacky conspiracy theory just came to mind: maybe it really was laundered bribe money, but once Wells realized that his office had been broken into and the money either stolen or very likely discovered (e.g., in a different position in the drawer from how he'd left it), he had to take immediate action to set up something in front of the dorms making it look like there actually were upgrades going on. Or, in a better light (and only in a "leave the money" scenario), he had a change of heart when he realized that the culprits could have stolen the funds but refused, and that if he didn't commit to using those funds for accessibility upgrades he'd literally be worse than a burglar.


EDIT2: I just remembered that, during the exchange leading up to the decision point, Chloe makes a rather curious remark that she would rather that Max stole the money and rewound (so that Chloe would never know) than that she actually, seriously leave the money where it is out of respect for property. It's said in a sarcastic eye-rolly tone, but I think she means it: her desire at that moment is not so much to have the money but that the money be stolen whether she herself profits from it or not - or at least a reassurance that Max is trying to stop her only out of self-interest at Chloe's expense (evil, but like a pirate) instead of taking the moral high ground by deferring to existing (oppressive, corrupt) power structures (evil, but like a top-hatted Victorian capitalist). She knows full well that Max would never actually steal the money behind her back like that, so her only purpose in suggesting it is to compare how much worse she considers leaving the money to be.

This is not the behaviour of someone who's trying to grab the cash, but someone who earnestly wants an ally to fight The Man.

[ElfPrince1937]

Originally posted by 3477:

This is not the behaviour of someone who's trying to grab the cash, but someone who earnestly wants an ally to fight The Man.

I think that's really what it comes down to; it should be pointed out that--Chloe's talk of a road trip aside--Max's primary motivations for allowing Chloe to steal the money include:

1. She wants to use it to pay off Frank

2. She's seen enough by this point that she doesn't mind screwing over Blackwell

With Point 1, we get the very real desire to keep Chloe safe at any cost; the money is Max's protection of Chloe vs. Frank.

Yet Point 2 is potentially even more interesting and compelling, for a number of (sub) reasons:

2a. The line in question from Max's Diary reads:

('cause that's gotta be legit, amirite?)

This definitely points to a growing amount of cynicism on Max's part, something that's only natural at that point in the game, after Kate's (potentially attempted) suicide and everything that led up to it.

2b. Prior to heading into the Dormitory in Episode 4, Max can talk to Ms. Grant outside. During the ensuing conversation, Max can deliver the following line:

I just wish that this could be the school I dreamed about before I came here.

This line is extremely important, not only because it once again shows us how much more cynical Max has become at this point, but also because it's an open acknowledgement by Max herself that Blackwell Academy isn't the "dream school of the arts" that she thought it was. Both as a result of spending time with Chloe and from witnessing events firsthand, Max is slowly watching the illusion of Blackwell's prestige melt away, revealing the ugly reality that lies beneath.

If you really wanted to look deeper into it, you could even argue that it's also a total setup for Max's later learning the truth about Jefferson, as well--the final betrayal of the "best years of her life" myth, which Max even acknowledges in her diary as being a load of BS after she and Chloe discover Rachel's body and go to the End of the World Party.

[3477]

Don't feel like creating a new thread or bumping another one, but I just unintentionally lost a talkback challenge in a BtS replay and noticed something: losing won't stop the flow of the story, and in fact the underlying problem always gets resolved anyway, but losing typically ends with more violence getting to that point.

This adds a whole new dimension to understanding the way Chloe talks to people in LiS.

[Usernamehere]

In my first playthrough, I took the money. I eventually came to the following conclusions and justifications about it:

1. Chloe and Max could use it to get Frank off their rear, which could keep them safe and allow them to give Frank some incentive to spill everything he knows about Rachel. If stealing the money could ultimately lead to finding Rachel, then having that money in Max and Chloe's hands is ultimately for a good cause.

2. This is the Prescott-backed Blackwell we're stealing from. 5,000 dollars is pocket change. Easily replacable. I thought about it, and figured "Realistically the Prescotts could have a new envelope with a new 5,000 dollars in here by morning.

3. You have to remember that at the end of the game, a storm destroys Arcadia Bay. In the long-term, it turns out that giving Max and Chloe five thousand dollars (or two if they pay off Frank) is a great way to help them stay on the road for as long as they need to to get wherever they need to go after the game.

Overall, it's wrong in the moment but works out in the end.

[3477]

Originally posted by Usernamehere:

In my first playthrough, I took the money. [...] Overall, it's wrong in the moment but works out in the end.

Yup. That's pretty much why I always took the money until the following kinda slowly congealed in my head and I finally decided not to in my third playthrough:

1. It's that exact utilitarian analysis that ends with sacrificing Chloe.

2. I looked up a longplay and saw just how Max gets around merely being a Lawful Stupid wet blanket in her response. It ties together so many issues underlying this choice. I had grossly underestimated LiS's writers on this one.

3. There's no in-character knowledge that Blackwell would be destroyed, no certainty that the fund was fake (and later it appears it was not), no knowledge that they wouldn't get caught or that it wouldn't contribute to their chances of getting caught in the first place, no knowledge that they wouldn't get caught with the money and thus unable to pay off Frank anyway. Now that I think about it, as an in-character self-destructive gamble the reasoning behind (not) taking the money resembles the reasoning behind (not) Sacrifice Chloe a lot.

This is definitely one of the ones where I could go either way, though.
(This and now also siding with David the following morning - him redeeming himself with a proper compliment of Joyce's cooking is already worth it alone)

[Usernamehere]

Originally posted by 3477:

Originally posted by Usernamehere:

In my first playthrough, I took the money. [...] Overall, it's wrong in the moment but works out in the end.

This is definitely one of the ones where I could go either way, though.
(This and now also siding with David the following morning - him redeeming himself with a proper compliment of Joyce's cooking is already worth it alone)

Realistically Max probably wouldn't do it, you're right, (and her character hasn't developed enough by that time to take such a risk,) but with all the OOC knowledge us as players have, it becomes the ultimately better choice in my opinion.

Also I like using that choice, too. As much as we all love Chloe and want to defend her, it's still nice of Max (if you take that choice) to realize that David just wants to keep everyone safe. Even if his methods aren't perfect.

Originally posted by 3477:

1. It's that exact utilitarian analysis that ends with sacrificing Chloe.

Now that I've read a lot more about this game and its universe, you could argue that Arcadia Bay was a rotten pile of trash from the start - and Rachel, Chloe, and even Nathan were victims of it. Max escaped the decay. One could argue that bringing the Prescotts and Jefferson to justice at the expense of losing another to Arcadia Bay's corruption is not worth it. One could argue that wiping the slate clean by bringing the Prescotts to justice and destroying their life's work, is a good way to clean Arcadia Bay out from the inside.

[3477]

I just remembered something that I keep forgetting and it's surprised me every time I got back to that scene until now:

Breaking into Frank's RV is Max's idea, and she even has to do (a little, but not zero) convincing to get Chloe in on it.

The whole story makes a lot more sense when you play the game assuming they're much closer to each other in underlying mentality than we tend to flanderize them in our heads.


EDIT: new headcanon: Chloe is at least as uncomfortable with this as Max is (or might have been) with the school break-in and that's why she's willing to spend that entire time awkwardly fumbling around in a garbage can.

[Dethlane]

About siding with David - just remember that if he only put his sodding pride aside and cooperated with Chloe and Max (for once!), none of ep.4 end - ep.5 begin sh*t would've happened. But nooo, he just had to lash out at his own step-daughter and her BFF (and soulmate, for sodding sake) to cover his bs pride and self-lickering, leaving all the hard work to Max (and Chloe, to some extent)

[3477]

I wouldn't be so hard on him for that, they were suspecting him the whole time for being somehow involved in the conspiracy so I don't think they would have even accepted his help earlier if he'd offered it (and he doesn't get to rewind if he says anything to piss them off).

Then again, if he'd asked Max what had happened after the fire alarm went off and paid attention, maybe they could've nabbed Nathan in time to replicate the entire Sacrifice Chloe ending without the "Sacrifice Chloe" part...

[Cyborg225]

came back because i learned that the fund is indeed real. there is a sign about a building permit for a ramp in episode 4 i think