The logical ending (Possible flawless argument) (SPOILLERS)

[The Civillian]

Howdy all

FAIR WARNING SPOILERS YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

Having played the game three times now and being over two months since I first compleatled it there has been something that has REALLY bugged me, And only recently I have figured out what it is.

It's the whole Chloe over the bay or vice versa argument, IT MAKES NO SENSE.


First off the storm itself

- Max gets the vision BEFORE bending time.

- How does one life equal a tornado, If thats the case then there should be a second when you saved Kate.

- Why is there a tornado comming in the alternate reality, In that reality Max hasnt altered time (Save for FIVE years prevoius..what did the tornado take a detour. "Sorry im late was buisy erasing another town" ), If it was due to Maxs power then it should have already hit going from when she first meddled with time...FIVE YEARS EARLIER.

- Knowing what she does Max could change ALL the events without using her time powers ONCE after going back and hitting the reset.

- This leads us to Chloe being REQUIERED to die or the tornado shows up....I understand cause and effect but someone living or dieing does in no way make a tornado....EVER


Now lets go over a few other things...

- A line that Nathan HAD (was removed) is "Youre all gonna die anyways the storm is comming" or somthing to that effect, Meaning that ORIGINALLY something else triggered the tornado.

- Jeffersons convosation after he makes Kate cry makes no sense, He's not talking to Nathan as his in the classroom, My guess would be this is something that was ment for the original story but overlooked when the ending was changed.

- The final chapter (Chapter 5) doesnt seem to fit, Chloe takes FAR too much convincing to not go after Nathan/Jefferson, She knows her friend can time travel, And she hasn't led her astray yet, It feels forced

- There is PLENTY of little ♥♥♥ bits that point to the storm comming (I wont cover them all) besides the obvious doomsday signs (moons/snow ect) Not to mention ALL the bunkers the prescotts have built......A 1 million doller bunker under an old shed in the middle of no where REALLY......It's pointless UNLESS theres another reason.

- Chaos theory is explained fairly well when Max goes back and saves William, THAT is chaos theory when applied to time travel. If it was becasue of max's power the effect would be INSTANT, not delayed.

Game quirk why nothing matters

Nothing matters, Every choice you make is irrelevent accept for a few spacific ones but for reasons that dont really effect the endings.

- Taking Chloe's dare about kissing her, and siding wih her once or twice on personal decisions (Taking money...sideing with her against david, Taking the blame for her) But the big one is the kiss, That effects only ONE ending, And thats these two falling for each other before being seperated forever.

- Letting Frank and dog die, This would just effect Chloe personally not the outcome of the story.

And thats it, EVERY other choice means NOTHING, If you go with sacrifice Chloe, ALL your choices are undone and everything is butterflys and rainbows for everyone accept Max who has the WHOLE week with her FOREVER, ANd she can't exactly tell anyone about it without being sent to the loony bin.

Saving Chloe on the other hand, Some of your choices May actually effect the outcome, Saving Kate, she would be in hospital or at home AWAY from the Bay, Warren is smart enough to do one...hopefully. David is safe in the bunker with victoria, The two whales while we see it blow up when ya drive past its still intact (mostly). Jefferson is caught, The prescotts name is dragged through the mud. And the tornado is slow enough my gran could outrun it and shes been dead for five years.

Now the FINAL point is actaully not related to any of the above.......


On the final part, We see Max and Chloe ON THE BEACH, near the two whales(Its assumed here, but they could be further away from the lighthouse as the main road leading from Blackwell to the beach is probably the ONLY road not yet blocked by some crap.

http://life-is-strange.wikia.com/wiki/Arcadia_Bay

So anywhere along the beach between the two whales diner and the main road leading to blackwell, With the TORNADO heading RIGHT AT THEM. They however have enough time to WALK to the lighthouse (With Chloe carrying Max whos passed out btw) And from the lighthouse they can see the tornado has yet to make a landing on the beach.

Now even at the closest point it would still take them what 30 min to get from the beach to the lighthouse....And they get there WITHOUT a scratch (Max is out of it so no rewind used).

Now if everyone else in the town is STUPID enough to stick around with a 200 foot mega tornado bearing down on them (Or hide in a glass fronted diner) Then they deserve to die, ♥♥♥♥ If i could see a 200 tornado heading my way I be making tracks in the other direction.


So final verdict

Saving Chloe is the ONLY option.....

- There is no garentee that going back and doing nothing would cancel out the storm

- If these two girls can WALK from the beach to the lighthouse, then everyone else has MORE than enough time to book it the ♥♥♥♥ outta there

- Anyone too stupid to leave...Naturel selection...sorry Joyce

- Speaking of, Any parent would gladly take the place of there child if it ment they got to live, (If david and joyce had to choose between Chloe and themselves, Chloe would live.



Bottom line

Episode 5 is NOT the final episode we were supposed to get (Its still good though dont get me wrong)

Saving Chloe is not only smart, but kind of your ONLY option.

discuss

Title edited on request (Sorry was high on pills due to bike accident :P)

[Brewski]

Topic needs an edit and a spoiler warning so you don't ruin the ending for people who haven't played.

Otherwise, tl/dr yet. I will read and react later, but wanted to suggest the edits now. With the Steam sale going on there are a lot of new playres playing it the first time who should be allowed to get through it before knowing the ending.

[Cyphy]

Well said my friend, well said.

[The Civillian]

Originally posted by bringstrom:

Topic needs an edit and a spoiler warning so you don't ruin the ending for people who haven't played.

Thanks and done

Look forward to your reply :P

[Brewski]

I would actually suggest you take off the "Saving Chloe is" at the beginning of the topic, as it's a spoiler in the first three words. Not that you can't see it coming if you pay attention, but no reason to spoil the final choice before anyone gets there.

Before I start, there's a lot of spoiler here, but I figure if you've read this far, it's spoiled anyway, so I'm not going to use spoiler tags...

Secondly, I agree with you in that I prefer the saving Chloe ending. As tragic as it is, I kinda prefer it when characters go with the "♥♥♥♥ destiny and fate" approach in my stories, as I think it makes them more interesting.

You make a lot of individal points, and I'm not (because I'm lazy) going to support or refute each of them. Suffice it to say that I generally agree with what you are saying. (Especially that not everyone in the Bay dies, as there are dozens of indicators that there are and will be some survivors. Casualties will still be high though, especially in a region that never gets a tornado, and doesn't know how to react to one.)

I am going to address this one though: That there is no guarantee going back will fix everything.

Let's consider the fact that Life is Strange uses the magical realism literary style to tell it's story. That means logic and science only play a cursory role in the story telling. They support the magic (in this case, Max's power) or they are ignored. It's part of the way the story is told, and if you can't accept that premise, then you won't enjoy it.

That's why Max, then Chloe, and eventually even Warren (and more importantly the players) accept her time travel powers with very little, or no, convincing needed. It's the key to the story, and if you questions it too much, everything falls apart.

So when it comes to the final decision, how do Max and Chloe know this will work? Because they believe it will. It makes sense in the same way that Max getting the powers in the first place makes sense.

Personally, I see value in both endings, and I think the near even split between the two by the community shows that both have merit. I personally have a slight prefernce to Bae over Bay, but it's a slight one.

So sorry, but I doubt this argument is going to be any more successful at convincing the 50% of fans who disagree with you that they are wrong any more than their arguments will work on you. :D

[zeron]

THANK YOU. Another one who understands the game and several great points that I completely agree with.

I gave an explanation of this in a more sci-fi, realistic situation as well with little game points and I think our discussions connect to each other. Here is mine: https://steamcommunity.com/app/319630/discussions/0/154644928867192971/

I've always wondered as to why that storm even arrived in Max's vision BEFORE Max knew she had powers so I believe it was meant to come. The Prescotts seem to know about it too before anyone else too.

SAVING CHLOE IS THE PROPER ENDING.

[The Civillian]

Originally posted by zeron:

snipped

I read what ya posted and the vid, Now I have a question.

What if the:

- The timeline is not as brittle as is suggested

- There's only one timeline

- It just adapts (Kinda like how Max see's it when Photo jumping) And if something really complex happens (Like going back and killing ya grandad before your dad is born) The timeline does the simple thing and just erases you completly, Meaning you never went back, but also you yourself never exist. So time simply forgets you. (Yes I know you could go round in a paradox for eternity, But what if time just says ♥♥♥♥ you, and restores the timeline minus you)

- And then there's the really big questions.

- If Max's power = messing the cozmoic universe up so it throws a wobbler aka tornado, Then it wouldnt be isolated to arcadia bay.

- Assuming there is no universal consequence for max manipulating time, Who gave Max her power......she didnt get it from eating greens.

Originally posted by bringstrom:

You make a lot of individal points, and I'm not (because I'm lazy) going to support or refute each of them. Suffice it to say that I generally agree with what you are saying. (Especially that not everyone in the Bay dies, as there are dozens of indicators that there are and will be some survivors. Casualties will still be high though, especially in a region that never gets a tornado, and doesn't know how to react to one.)

They get a tornado 1 in 5 years (Chloe says so at the lighthouse episode 1) Also what about all the storm shelters.

And again its a SLOW assed tornado, In 30min its moved maybe 20 feet,

Still the same choice for different reasons is still the same choice :P

[Meskuria]

Lol I have to agree with what you stated truth is the whole game illustrates such inherently strong cause and effect the tornado actually tends to weaken the earlier ones in my opinion the others show a "Paper trail" in the form of the pictures when time changes

[^_Thranduil_^]

There isn't a right or wrong ending, it's your choice to decide. We all saw the same story but we probably felt different about every character and situation.

In the end you put everything in the balance and make a decision, save your friend Chloe who is in love with you or Warren (who also is your friend and also loves you) and everyone else in town.

Either way you end up losing someone who loves you, but since with the second choice you also save everyone else it seems rational to chose this ending, but you could also consider that your bound with Chloe seems much more stonger, perhaps enought to consider her life more important than all the others.

Right before the end you are reminded of your past memories of the week with Chloe and also you are reminded of all the people you would lose to save her.

The choice was easy for me, but i wouldn't consider wrong chosing the other ending, it's up to what you feel is right.

[Ryan Gillam]

Cheers for spoiling the game in the main title of the thread!

[Palatine Katinka]

I think I mostly agree with the OP but with a few caveats or additions...

Originally posted by The Civillian:

- This leads us to Chloe being REQUIERED to die or the tornado shows up....I understand cause and effect but someone living or dieing does in no way make a tornado....EVER

Not only is she required to die, she is required to die at a specific time and date. Jefferson shooting her on Thursday night doesn't stop the tornado, only Nathan shooting her on Monday morning? Makes no sense...

Originally posted by The Civillian:

- A line that Nathan HAD (was removed) is "Youre all gonna die anyways the storm is comming" or somthing to that effect, Meaning that ORIGINALLY something else triggered the tornado.

I don't hold much stock in unused lines as they could be unused for any number of reasons, such as not fitting with the intended story. It is not intended that we think Nathan knew about the very literal storm so him mentioning a storm in a possibly figurative way was removed. The argument doesn't need this point to stand anyway.

Originally posted by The Civillian:

- The final chapter (Chapter 5) doesnt seem to fit, Chloe takes FAR too much convincing to not go after Nathan/Jefferson, She knows her friend can time travel, And she hasn't led her astray yet, It feels forced

I actually found it quite easy to convince her just by being completely open about saving William then having to choose between Chloe's health or William's life. Although now I remember that she says she'd never have wanted Max to have to make that kind of choice yet less than a day later she's gettign Max to choose between Chloe's life or Joyce's safety... Damnit Chloe! Max shouldn't have to make that choice!

Originally posted by The Civillian:

- Taking Chloe's dare about kissing her, and siding wih her once or twice on personal decisions (Taking money...sideing with her against david, Taking the blame for her) But the big one is the kiss, That effects only ONE ending, And thats these two falling for each other before being seperated forever.

Regardless of your ending choice those choices affect the final journal page (only accesible between the nightmare and the final choice) where it sums up how Max feels about Chloe. So even if you choose to sacrifice the bay and miss out on another kiss scene you'll still have the journal entry where Max writes about loving Chloe.

Originally posted by The Civillian:

David is safe in the bunker with victoria,

David probably left the bunker by that point since he and the cops would have got there quicker with Max and Chloe co-operating. Victoria never would have been there since she only ends up there if a)she trusts Max b)Max warns her about Nathan, driving her to Jefferson for help. As Max now didn't go into the club she can't have warned Victoria. However, Blackwell is far from the coast and a building old enough to have survived multiple tornadoes.

Originally posted by The Civillian:

- Anyone too stupid to leave...Naturel selection...sorry Joyce

In her defense, she was there waiting for David to come back with Max and Chloe who had been missing overnight. In this new post-Warren's picture reality where Chloe and Max turned up at the Price house at a reasonable time then told David to go to the police with the Dark Room evidence, there is no reason for her to be hanging about after David comes back from helping the police raid the Dark Room. She may well have gone somewhere safer if she knows Max and Chloe are safe too.

[BionicGolem]

100% agree with OP,especially on people of Arcadia Bay having a lot of time to get their asses to safety. Not even counting the time that took Chloe and Max getting to lighthouse there must have been signs of f-ing storm and tornado, that should make stupid people of Arcadia to start thinking abut getting away.

[afsb]

Originally posted by The Civillian:

FAIR WARNING SPOILERS YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

What the hell is the point of warning of spoilers when the spoiler is in the thread title?

[Brewski]

Originally posted by afsb:

Originally posted by The Civillian:

FAIR WARNING SPOILERS YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED

What the hell is the point of warning of spoilers when the spoiler is in the thread title?

Agreed. This:
"Saving Chloe is the logical ending (Possible flawless argument) (SPOILLERS)"

Need to become this:
"The logical ending (Possible flawless argument) (SPOILLERS)"

Otherwise you are spoiling it for anyone who visits the discussion list.

[Ryan Gillam]

Originally posted by bringstrom:

Otherwise you are spoiling it for anyone who visits the discussion list.

He already spoiled it for me when I browsing through the topics :)

[zeron]

Originally posted by The Civillian:

I read what ya posted and the vid, Now I have a question.

What if the:

- The timeline is not as brittle as is suggested

- There's only one timeline

- It just adapts (Kinda like how Max see's it when Photo jumping) And if something really complex happens (Like going back and killing ya grandad before your dad is born) The timeline does the simple thing and just erases you completly, Meaning you never went back, but also you yourself never exist. So time simply forgets you. (Yes I know you could go round in a paradox for eternity, But what if time just says ♥♥♥♥ you, and restores the timeline minus you)

- And then there's the really big questions.

- If Max's power = messing the cozmoic universe up so it throws a wobbler aka tornado, Then it wouldnt be isolated to arcadia bay.

- Assuming there is no universal consequence for max manipulating time, Who gave Max her power......she didnt get it from eating greens.

-Okay, so the timeline is not as brittle meaning going back to change something exactly the same way it was returns it to its original state.

-Only one timeline, well we really only have one timeline. I don't believe alternate realities existed in Life is Strange only hinted on.

-If the timeline just adapts and going with what you said, you mean being erased from existence as a whole. It's the paradox of time travel really, but yeah, if you kill your ancestor, you are never born and the timeline erases you completely AND the timeline changes because butterflies yay!

-Exactly. Max's power causing a cataclysmic event will not just be isolated to Arcadia Bay. I'd like to go back to The Flash (Spoilers for Season One ending) where the ancestor of the bad guy kills himself and the bad guy gets erased from the timeline and the world starts to reset to accommodate a timeline without that guy who killed himself who is the ancestor of the bad guy. The cataclysmic event in that one gets stopped by Flash though so it's almost like a "sacrifice Chloe and save Arcadia Bay" scenario all at one (probably what will happen even if Chloe died).
--The big tornado in Life is Strange is JUST in Arcadia Bay so that makes no sense in trying to "reset" the timeline because Chloe didn't die with Nathan's gun (Yes, it seems to just be in Arcadia Bay because San Francisco which is prone to quakes didn't even get a single shake or rain drop).

-This was never explained at all in the game, but we are led to assume that there are supernatural forces that exist in the game. Samuel seems to know about it.

I want to explain that point by going over Max's spirit animal which is a doe/deer whatever. This is what that means:
-Gentleness
-Ability to move through life and obstacles with grace
-Being in touch with inner child, innocence
-Being sensitive and intuitive
-Vigilance, ability to change directions quickly
-Magical ability to regenerate, being in touch with life’s mysteries
Source: http://www.spiritanimal.info/deer-spirit-animal/

As you can tell, some of those are things that we see in Max and stuff that made Jefferson want to kidnap her and photograph her in the first place (call me wrong, but those really are good photos though. I'm a photographer so...but I'm not twisted haha).

What I'm trying to lead into here is that everyone MIGHT have powers through their spirit animal. That part in there that says "magical ability" is what I'm referring to. The power has to be awaken in order for it to work.

Did I answer them or do I need to re-clarify anything else?