LIS Character analysis

[(水花) Perplexist]

So, I know a lot of you hate David, hate Nathan, possibly hate Frank, and love Chloe. So I wanted to see if I could change your minds post game. [Will Contain Spoilers]

David: He does come off very strongly in the beginning and middle parts of the game. Your first encounter is him hassling you right after saving Chloe. Then the second encounter is him hassling Kate. After that the final straw for most of you was probably when he slapped Chloe. All of this straight out the gate in episoded one. He never explains himself to you, but keep in mind you are still a kid that he is working at that school to protect. This means giving you information that you might get nosey about coul put you at risk. The whole time he knew something was wrong, that students were in danger. This is why he acts like he's on a war path through out most of the game. He does go out of bounds a few times yes, but his ultimate goal is that of yours. To protect those close to him and the lives of everyone else. He even swoops in at the end and rescues you. If a bad guy rescues you even after you get him kicked out of his house and end his marriage, then he is clearly doing something wrong. You can argue that some of the things he did through out the game were uncalled for, but ask yourself this: "What would I have done to protect everyone, despite them being against me?"I will compare this analysis with Chloe's so try to wait until the end please.

Nathan: I'll admit this kid has major issues, but through out the whole game I couldn't bring myself to blame him. I empathized with him a lot more then I could Chloe. He messed up bad, real bad, but I remind you that the whole thing started when Chloe tried to blackmail him. I know Chloe tells you he drugged her, and all of this and that, but I wanted to bring that some attention. Is it okay to drug somebody? No it isn't. It also isn't cool that he did that to Kate as well. However, I put this up to him making terrible choices that a kid who instead of dealing with his personal problems decided to drink all the time and take drugs. It is mentioned that he has a usage problem. He made a lot of terrible choices, did a lot of bad things but I argue that a lot of this was based on the influences in his life (Mark Jefferson) and the usage problems he had. Yes he did accidentally kill Rachel, but if it weren't for Mark Jefferson, I don't think that would have happened. I don't think anything would have happened with him if it weren't for Mark Jefferson. In the end he even tries to warn you before it was too late, admitting to his crimes and apologizing. I'd even be willing to bet the kid probably was going to turn himself in. I will compare this analysis with Chloe's so try to wait until the end please.

Frank: I can't really say a whole lot to make the guy look good except for the fact he didn't hurt rachel, and the only reason he is shown as a bad guy is because Chloe stole money from him. If someone owed you three grand, you would be pretty angry about it I garuntee that. His bad image was pretty much due to the situation between Max, Chloe, and him. Tie this together with the fact that the girl he was in love with disappeared, and you have an emotional man who can't control his anger and said anger keeps getting sparked from Max and Chloe's tireless taunting. Take note of how Max and Chloe continuously poke the lion with a stick during each encounter. I will compare this analysis with Chloe's so try to wait until the end please.

Chloe: The girl who started it all. I know I'm really going to be ripping into her but I promise it's for good reason. I couldn't stand her at all. Through out the entire game, but that is really my fault. I know people like this and I know how they are. They don't change, they don't care unless it affects them, and they'll end up hurting everyone who cares about them in the end anyways. Chloe is cool, she has style and she can care a lot, but that doesn't make her a good person. She goes around doing what she wants, acts like nothing is her fault, and doesn't care who she hurts. She blames everything bad that happens to her on everyone else. I get that she's had a rough start. I can even sympathize with some of her trauma, but the saying goes: These scars only make us stronger. Everything from the very start of the game is based on her terrible choices. Even before Nathan drugged her, she planned on stealing money from him. I call out her personal responsibility on that. It is not okay that he did that, but she never would have been in that situation if she had not been up to something shady herself, and even after if all she still tried blackmailing him. Don't taunt the snake after it's nearly bit you already. Ultimately Chloe is a lot like Nathan. The difference is that we have a close up of her side but only tid bits of Nathan's story. I guess the reason I couldn't empathize with Chloe is because I got that close up of her story while being kept in the dark about Nathan's. One of Chloe's biggest flaws reminded me that of an alcoholic's or addict's which is to blame everyone else. I had my share of tragedies the same as everyone else, but it's how we deal with these bumps in the road that defines us and makes us stronger. Yes, Chloe was dealt a bad hand, but she could have taken the cards she was given and made the best of it. She decided to wallow in self pity, and dragged Max down her path of destruction. She even tried to get Max to steal donations for a charity for the disabled. This kind fo behaviour is unacceptable no matter how rough you've had it. Yes, kids get into mischeif but her's went beyond that. She put Max in a lot of bad situations and if it backfired on her, she blamed someone else, even Max. A toxic relationship which I've also had my fair share, only poisons the people who decide to remain in it. Max is also partially to blame for this. She was an enabler to Chloe. Instead of saying no, half the time she just went along with it. Max did have some choice on the smaller things, but ultimately what happened, happened.

Chloe/David: We get a bad image of David from the start, reinforced by Chloe so it's not entirely incorrect to say that David got the shaft in this story. The man had been through a lot in his life, being a veteran. So he knows what it means when lives are at stake. Chloe never gives David the benefit of the doubt and never tries to understand him. He wants to protect Chloe who he see's as a daughter, and therefore wants what's best for her. However, as most rebellious teens would see it, this looks to her like control, like someone who is crazy and just want's to bring down the hammer for no waranted reason. I can empathize here because I was a rebellious teen as well, but in the end I saw how it was meant as a way to guide and protect rather than control and manipulate. I wish David had a better go at it than what was given to him, because in the end we see his true colors and I gotta say that his lime light was well deserved.

Chloe/Nathan: Chloe and Nathan are very, very similar. They have father issues, and both dealt with those issues horribly. They both made one terrible decision after another, and you end up getting caught in between them. To be fair though, Nathan's father isn't dead, and most of his terrible decisions can be thrown up to the drugs, alcohol, and Mr. Jefferson. As for Chloe, he father dying and Max leaving can be difficult to deal with, but her and Nathan made such terrible decisions that the consiquences are pretty much earned. I also want to point out that our view of both characters could have been dramatically different depending on who were were close to, which obviously we were close to Chloe instead making us sympathize with her instead. I take my hat off to Nathan for taking responsibility for everything he had done in the end and trying to make amends, and I was proud that Chloe realized that she was the cause of the hurricane in the end and owned up to it to make things right.

Chloe/Frank: This feud is pretty obvious. Chloe being the trouble she was, was the cause of everything bad with Frank. Max probably would have never had a bad run in with Frank if it weren't for Chloe. Things get confusing though when you find out that Frank and Rachel were dating. It means Chloe and Rachel weren't actually dating and then you are confused as to how to feel about Frank. You could decide to suspect him in her disappearance still, or you could give him the benefit of the doubt and hope that he was also worried about her. This new information made me reasses the situation with Chloe, Frank, and Rachel. It made me a bit more angry with Chloe, especially after the conversation that followed. Did Rachel act like her and Chloe were in a relationship? I don't know, but I think Chloe was being way too selfish. At least in the end she decided to let bygons be bygons (for the most part).

In the end, I think Chloe was given too much benefit while these other characters were overlooked. I get some will like Chloe, others won't. I would most likely side with those who won't, but I feel like I have a decently rational reason for not liking her. I hope that this gives you all who dislike these characters a reason to reasses them. I honestly wasn't surprised by the outcome of the game. I knew Mark Jefferson was up to no good, I knew Nathan was in a bad place, I knew Rachel was dead, I knew David was good at heart, and I knew the choices at the end. The only thing I didn't like was the hurricane. I feel that if chaos theory were in play here, wouldn't reality burst open at the seems. For example, Max's nightmare in the last episode. Something of that nature, like an apocolypse of all of existence, not just Arcadia Bay. Just their town getting destroyed and a few people dying feels too small a price for saving Chloe. You wouldn't actually feel bad about sacrificing a few lives to save the closest person in your life, but you would reconsider if it meant all of existence came to an end. I'm just saying the ending felt too small. Anyways thanks for those who read this and those who read the whole thing. Let me know what you think, and how you feel about what I wrote, if you disagree, agree, or if you have something to add. Thanks!

[Kry Havoc]

Personally, I think the most interesting character to analyze is Max. Max is actually pretty awful, but most of her bad decisions are justified by the player because you're doing everything from her perspective.

But Max is irresponsible, meddlesome and manipulative; she uses all of her friends for her own benefit — even leading Warren on when it's clear from the outset that she's not as into him as he is into her. She's so self-absorbed that she goes out of her way to "save" people so she can feel better, despite knowing she's just going to rewind time and undo things.

The game, wonderfully, is constantly calling you out on it:

* Calling you out about the pregnancy test
* Waif hipster b.s.
* Wasting your powers to make people like you

...and it's masterful because Jefferson chooses Max specifically because of naiveté, all the while making it seem like hers are the positive traits. The game literally says at one point, "this isn't a video game." The irony is delicious.

I increasingly like this game not because specific characters are awesome (I describe how Chole's a turd as well in another thread), but because we love them despite their glaring flaws. That's great writing.

[Excrucian]

Nice post and I tend to aggree on most of it. I'll try to contribute my thoughts.

David: I did hate him for about half the game. Then I think I started changing my opinion around the time where you do your big snoop that ends with him being kicked out (I didn't know there was a scene where he slaps Chloe, probably I made different choices). I mean the computer password was his date with Joyce so clearly he truely loved her. Then you get him kicked out and the way he looked was just pitiful and he truly seemed like he wanted to do good. It was just that his way was twisted by his experience compared to the average Joe. After the final speech with him I felt really bad for how he got it all this time.

Nathan: I'll be honnest, there's no quantum-twisted time-warped dimension that exists where I could like a guy like that. He got issues, yes, but everything still makes him a horrible person. However, when you listen to his last voicemail, he warns Max about Jefferson and apologize by saying he knows he's coming for him and it's all gonna end soon. You can hear relief in his voice from knowing he's about to get killed! That's where I felt for the guy, when he knew his misery was ending.

Frank: Well the first few times you see him he does come out strong and is pretty much as you expect him to be. I didn't feel any special resentment towards him though, idk why exactly. Of course I couldn't quite "like" him either because of his drug cartel but that's me. But as I digged deeper about Rachel and even dogs I realized that there was more to him than that. You could see he really cared about her and when you speak to him at the end in the dinner, you can see he's broken from realizing the turmoil of events that ended in Rachel's death and his role in it. At that point I could also just feel for him (and I was also expecting Max's good nature to have some damn influences on me at that point lol)

Chloe: At first I thought whe would be a one-layer chick character but I liked that layer. Hell, I couldn't help early in the game that I would love to date her and have Max as our best friend (man I didn'T know what was coming lol). As the game went on however I could see a poor broken girl with a carefree facade. She felt abandoned by the death of her father and then her best friend. Her whole world just got shattered so she rebelled agaisnt everyone and everything. Then the game moves on, Max rekindles with her old best friend and that's where the game starts getting interesting because you start to see how vulnerable she actually is and how much she missed Max. And then you also realize how everything innocent thing she does is actually hidden flirting and testing the water because at some point in her past (maybe when they were teens) she realized whe was in love with Max and now is trying to see where she stands (and let's remember how she says she loved Rachel when you find her body). "I dare you to kiss me", "There's an otter in my shark water" (with teasing), "you can't go back to your dorm, you're a Blackwell fugitive! Come crash at my place!", "Hey after this morning grope of course I'm happy" (after a hug). These are all intended to try and seduce Max or at least see where she stands but she's too scared to be direct in fear of losing someone she loves again. Personally I think that all Chloe needed to be a way better person was someone who could be both best friend and lover. Of course it's not something Max could've done in 2 phrases and it couldn't happen until their relationship status was sealed so that's why she keeps acting in a bad way, but a word from Max and she stops. By the end of the game I couldn't picture anything else than these two together. Maybe I'm a big softie at heart but I cannot see Chloe as a "toxic" person. She could become one with bad relationships, but I believe one good honnest one, like with Max, is all it takes to soothe her broken soul and maybe save her for good (remember she said Rachel literally saved her, but Rachel hid her relationship with Frank so she probably wasn't in love with Chloe).

Contrary to you though, I do not believe Chloe was given too much benefit over overlooked characters but for one reason only: you're following and living everything through Max and her. Giving you complete backgrounds and motives of other characters would quite probably have broken the immersion you get from playing and become fore of a "traditionnal rpg". ♥♥♥♥ this game made me freeze in front of my computer, laughed a bit and cried like a baby and all those emotions came from living "through" Max and I doubt that just finding detailed bios from everybody would've caused the same empathic reactions. But that's my take on the subject.

Allright hope I did a good job here and didn't bore you with my wall of text :)

[maniacal<1>]

All of the characters are a bit 'open' for interpretation, I'm pretty sure on purpose, with enough of a silhouette to pull you in but not enough depth to lock in their personalities across the board. That's one of the developer's better tricks, imho, to give you so much character development but still leave them so 'vacuous' for lack of a better word.

As far as specifics...weell Chloe, to me, was damaged. Her life literally fell apart, and the world seemed to turn on her at once. That changes a person, believe me. She was a mere shadow of her former self, and I think Max saw this and fought so hard to make up for abandoning her completely to her own madness. I didn't see Max and Chloe as soul-mates or perfect lovers or anything, even if I do enjoy a bit of the Pricefield fluff, but rather one friend trying to move the universe itself to make it up to her friend and give her the peace she needs. Even the ending, really, offers you two options about how to 'fix' her. This journey, at least the first time I went through it, was Max trying to reconcile her doubts and failures, which is why I almost expected the 'it was all in her head' ending that we ( thankfully ) didn't get.

Max is a super flawed character, and I love her. I never once thought she was a good person, the game even called you out for being manipulative and selfish, even if it did give you 'gray areas' to help others. However the sole redeeming factor of Max is her unwavering love and comitment to Chloe, fighting her own inner demons just to right the wrong she did. I emphathized most with Max, despite Chloe more or less mirroring my own youth, but maybe I just wished I had a Max of my own back in the day?

I adored Frank, and David...I saw through that gruff countenence immediately because it's a defensive mechanism I've deployed myself over the years, and even though Chloe didn't appreciate the stance I took I never hated David for his over-protective nature, or Frank for his aggressive demeanor, because I saw them for what they really were.

Now Nathan...♥♥♥♥ Nathan. The 'I'm crazy' excuse doesn't cut it with me. He was in love with his own excess, and the romantic image he had of himself. I have no sympathy for him at all.

One of the best parts of LiS is how open and, well, cookie-cutter the characters are, but with various sub-layers of complexity that allow you to super-impose yourself or those around you onto them to best appreciate the story. Even if some realizations hit harder than others ( when my mind started dredging up buried memories and attaching them to Chloe's situation it emotinoally gutted me...was NOT expecting that. First time ANY medium has sucked me in so hard ), I think this is a game where the more you play it, over and over, you are going to learn and grow with it, and in that way the characters themselves will gain new dimensions and add even more nuances to the over-arching story.

I've been gaming since Joust and Frogger on old gaming cabinets in roller-rinks, but Dontnod's craftsmanship has totally shifted and raised the bar as to what and how I expect my enjoyment from gaming to be. I wouldn't call it a 'masterpiece' because that sounds a bit too emotionally self-aggrandizing, but I would say it's the best ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ game I've ever played. Maybe not the most fun, but definitely the best when judged by the total sum of it's parts.

[Jim]

I like the varied character analysis here. I agree that the characters are pretty standard tropes (picked up on by the hilarious Honest Gaming trailer) but they have enough space for you to interpret them sufficiently to give your own spin to the game. Like maniacal<1>, I've played games since Snapper, MarsLander and Lemmings, but this has really made me question time spent playing games without this level of craftmanship and narrative (dammit, I was just going to try EVE out!).

As to my character reviews:

David: I agree, he's a flawed character but he's doing his best. My playthrough (only one so far) involved him hitting Chloe but I stuck up for him during the family argument (pissed Chloe off, but she was clearly out-of-line). I felt justified when he turned up to save me, and (kind of) when he went off his rocker and murdered Jefferson in a moment of passion when he found Chloe was dead (and his broken sobbing afterwards). He's not a white knight, he comes across as a genuine person with problems, doing his best.

Nathan: I think Perplexist is too easy on Nathan. He killed Rachel (even by accident) and covered it up. He's clearly ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up due to his upbringing and Jefferson's influence, but he's leaned into it and seems to be trying to ♥♥♥♥ up worse. Given how hard the Perplexist is on Chloe's intention to take the disabled fund, I think manslaughter is harder to excuse. Sure he has a moment of clarity just before the end, but that's the only moment of introspection we get from him (other than the negative one in the bathroom before he accidentally kills Chloe). He's out of control, and he's not trying to improve.

Frank: Like Nathan, he's hardly a pleasant character. He's equally selfish with a mean streak, and you only get through to him through his love of Rachel (getting the code, and then devastation when he realises it was drugs he supplied that killed her), which seems to be his sole redeeming feature (apart from maybe his love of dogs, though Pompidou is pretty mean in that fight scene).

Chloe: I'm not as sold on Chloe as some of you are, but I did outgrow my initial irritation by the end. She's dead-set on her rebellion and refusing to accept any responsibility for her own problems (not the bit where her dad died, obviously, but many of the outcomes that she complains about are due to her refusal to do what's asked of her). She even blames Max when Max tries to keep her on the straight and narrow (not taking the money, sticking up for David when Chloe goes overboard). Her impulsiveness is directly responsible for the final episode's difficulties (refusal to go to the police when finding Rachel's body, rushing headlong into Jefferson's trap) and many of the problems before that (including getting herself killed by Nathan initially). She's a messed-up character, no doubt, but I'll credit her with growth. Sadly, she's still never going to be worth more than an entire town full of people...

Max: As people say, the player-character is kind-of us, kind-of not (she may regret player choices, for example, showing that she's got her own moral centre). She is naive and withdrawn, but ends up both hardened to reality and more outgoing due to the events, and through Chloe's influence (both bad and good). I pursued a platonic relationship with Chloe (I don't have anything against the romantic relationship, but it felt less realistic to me), but even then I struggled to grasp why Max had so much invested in Chloe so quickly. I suppose she was feeling adrift and the shared experiences (both as youngsters and now through time travel) meant they bonded quickly.

I enjoyed the episode five exploration of Max's other motivations for her rewind power use (not just making people happier, but getting them to like her, as well as the selfishness of prioritising Chloe over other people's wellbeing, most starkly illustrated in the final choice), but I feel this interesting psychological explanation was undermined by the gamification of the end (stealth section, followed by a recap of the previous scenes) - I feel an opportunity was missed here to delve deeper.

Anyway, I still like Max, despite her flaws.

Jefferson: Yeah, no redeeming features, but I wish he hadn't been so over-the-top evil, monologuing et al.

[WatchfulShadow]

Max is amazing

[dtfans0420]

But who the hell would hate David in the endgame?
With the soundtrack The Sense Of Me (my favorite one btw) I can't even criticize Nathan.
But Frank, though I not really hate him, I tell him the truth at the Two Whales to make him suffer, without hesitation.

[(水花) Perplexist]

Good answers so far! I enjoyed reading these.

[Jim]

Originally posted by dtfans0420:

But who the hell would hate David in the endgame?
With the soundtrack The Sense Of Me (my favorite one btw) I can't even criticize Nathan.
But Frank, though I not really hate him, I tell him the truth at the Two Whales to make him suffer, without hesitation.

Oh absolutely, that's a tear-jerker. I think you'd have to be pretty hard-hearted to not appreciate the torment even an otherwise unlikeable chap has during his final moment of clarity (and life) and attempt to redeem himself slightly (warning Max). The music in this game makes so many moments unforgettable. Still can't listen to Message to Bears...

[Mt Shiva]

The real bad guy is only Jefferson.

[talemore]

Is there an analysis of the generic characters, why no one wants to speak to Max and how they show those doors whose the man. They are angry and there have to be a reason why the characters were designed with this hatred so intense they don't even give a damn if someone is standing in their path.

[Excrucian]

After all these personnal analysis I can only come to the conclusion that they created characters so "imperfectly perfect" that we can all see them at a different angle. Someone might like a character while another hates it so basically, they recreated the way we basically feel/react to real people around us, which I find pretty incredible :)