So this has been bothering me (SPOILERS DUH)

[The Civillian]

With every tradgedy there is always someone to blame, a point where it all started, This is what I wish to discuss.


Game starts in the woods, middle of a storm blah blah blah...

Then your in a classroom with a wolf in sheeps clothing basically telling everyone his a phyco.

But where did this all start, What was it that set Max and Chloe on there collision course with that amount of pain.

Well for the answer we need to go back five years. Back to the Day William died.

If we examin the scene carefully, and listen to how Chloe and William talk there's a whole bunch of things we can figure out. The biggest one being.....

- Max and Chloe at that time (Not timetravel Max) Have NO IDEA Max is going to be moving away.

- William doesnt appear to know either, If we take what he says when he goes out the door at face value "That makes all of us"


So from that we can deduce that Vanessa and Ryan havint told thier supposed closest friends, Or at least thier daughter who WILL be moving away from her BEST friend.(Do they REALLY want Max growing up hating them lol)

Moving forward, we also know that by the time the funeral swings around, Chloe is still holding it together, presumably because she still has Max around, We know this by looking at the picture of the funeral, Chloe is STILL Chloe, she hasnt cut her hair and isnt angry, shes upset, as you would expect.

Now fast forward a little to when CHloe and Max enter Chloe room for the first time, Chloe says, "My rooms a little different since the last time you saw it" This tells us that Chloe didnt lose it untill AFTER Max left, after the funeral.


Now if Vanessa and Ryan were human beings, they wouldnt have made Max move away too close to Williams death, Unless ofcourse they just dont care, or are just really stuck up.

So Max moves away, how long after the funeral we dont know, but its assumed its REALLY soon after, This implies that Vanessa and Ryan KNEW they were moving before Williams death.

At the same time, Joyce could see what was happening to her daughter after Max left, Yet did 'nt try the obviouse approach, Getting Max back in contact with her.


But why didn't Max and Chloe speak for five years, the only thing that makes logical sense is this......

Shortly after Williams funeral, Max is told there moving to seattle, Now In the wikki it says Max was excited, However The way Max is as we meet her, tells me she would have been more nervous than anything else.

So Max tells Chloe shes moving away, Chloe just lost her dad, and now her best freind is leaving her.....I'd imagin this is what would make her snap, and probably flip out at Max.

Max leaves, giving Chloe time to cool off, and then both of them put off talking to eachother but for different reasons....

- Chloe Is pissed at herself for blowing up at Max, And seeing as Max hasnt contacted her, probably thinks shes ruined her freindship.

- Max on the other hand, Wants to get in contact, But I feel is too scared, just incase Chloe ment waht ever she said the last time they spoke, As times gone on she's reinforced this belief, choosing to live with a 'theres a chance were still freinds, rather than risking having it confirmed that they are no longer friends.

At least thats the ONLY reason I can think of these two not talking to each other, unless the parents are trying to keep them seperate.


So with all that out of the way, who do we blame for the girls heartach in the present, The answer may surprise you.


----------------------------------------------------------------JOYCE PRICE--------------------------------------------------

This woman is souly responsible for how bad Chloe has gotten.

- "Mom gloms onto step ♥♥♥♥♥♥" Implying that Joyce got with David very quickly, William died in 2008, Joyce and David met in 2008, at the diner, Where Joyce wrote a nice to meet you note at the top of his receipt.

Joyce basically ignored her daughters pain, she admitted to Max that she hadnt seen Chloe so happy since she left, since william died.

If she had been paying attention she would have noticed Chloe decline and done something herself, A two minuet phonecall would have prevented EVERYTHING.


What evidence do I have to support this, I hear you ask.....LOADS.


- In the alternate time line, Max and Chloe were still in contact, (ok it took Chloe's accident, but Chloe still wanted Max around, even though they STILL hadnt met after 5 years, but wrote eachother often.

- If CHloe had Max, she wouldnt have fallen for Rachel quite as badly, even if she hadnt Rachel would STILL be alive. (Saay what)

Rachel wants to be a Model, In the other timeline we see that Max actually made it in Seattle, Her status with Victoria PROVES that, (Victoria sucking upto Max, Pretty sure Max isnt that much of a ♥♥♥♥♥ in that timeline) And what was different, SHE HAD Chloe's support,

So If Max and Chloe rekindled there freindship, lets say it took Joyce a year to notice how bad Chloe had gotten and why she was the way she was. We can safly assume That Chloe would have still given Max the push she needed to make it in Seattle.

So Max gets reasonably well known, No super star, but deffinatly heard of. Then Chloe meets Rachel, who wants to be a model.

Rachel wouldn't have had to goto Jefferson, She would have had Max, They woulda been able to help each other, with Chloe giving a gentle (Or in Max's case a LARGE) push.

Rachel doesnt need Jeffershit, doesnt get involved with Nathan, Poof Rachel is alive in the present.

Now with Rachel Alive, and Max back as her BFF, Chloe doesnt need to 'leave arcadia bay' She would know Max was comming back to the bay to goto Blackwell, Chloe would have stayed on track, not got expelled, Never borrowed the money off frank, and therefore never gone after Nathan with his money, So no bathroom trip of death.

phew that was actually far more than I thought it was lol.


Ofcourse you could argue that this whole mess was Ryan and Vanessas fault for not telling Max BEFORE the acciident that they were moving.

Max would have told Chloe, and they would have worked things out the way they always have, each visiting the other during holidays, chatting on the phone ect ect ect.

Then Williams death, while it still would have an impact, Chloe would know Max had her back as they discussed it before had with LEVEL heads.


So who to blame

The Parents

Congratz parents on ruining both your daughters lives by not stepping up and making them sort there ♥♥♥♥ out, Perticually Joyce who seemed more interested in getting a new man than the declining state of her own daughter.

Five years and neither parent thought it odd that Max and CHloe, who (From what we have been lead to belive) were pretty much INSEPERABLE from an early age, just suddenly stopped talking........REALLY

[Rutas]

you have hit me where it hurts. really really good thoughts. it seems plausible.

[talemore]

It's always the parents fault. This is a hindsight on what could been done to prevent everything from happening.

It's chloe who will have to take the hit for her mother's depression and later on it was only because Max was around Joyce had enough courage to take a stand against David. Joyce gave up hope on herself and her daughter and was stuck in a relationship where her husband was harming her child.

I blame David. You can romance David, the same can be said about Nathan, both have a developmental disability in their heads who makes them mental disturbed.

[The Civillian]

Originally posted by talemore:

It's always the parents fault. This is a hindsight on what could been done to prevent everything from happening.

It's chloe who will have to take the hit for her mother's depression and later on it was only because Max was around Joyce had enough courage to take a stand against David. Joyce gave up hope on herself and her daughter and was stuck in a relationship where her husband was harming her child.

I blame David. You can romance David, the same can be said about Nathan, both have a developmental disability in their heads who makes them mental disturbed.

Max and Chloe were set on there path before David showed up. And David isn't really a bad guy, Yeah he suffers from PTSD, But he knows something shady is going on at Blackwell, His the ONLY person who gives enough of a ♥♥♥♥ to actually go digging.

Ok He was wrong about how Kate and Max are involoved, But the ARE involved.


Point is this is lesson for parents, If your child stops talking to there best friend (And I mean one they have had for YEARS) and their depressed. STEP UP and sort it out.

Yeah there gonna protest, say they hate you ect ect, But once the dust has settled, they will thankyou.

[Arcadia]

This game does reflect some social problems.So it let a lot of people resonate.

[bird]

I don't think max left for a few more years as you can find the photo of them dressed like pirates and Max looks more like her present self (short, lighter colored hair instead of dark ponytail and less childish face) than what she's like when you go back through the photo.

[CZBGR Icepick]

Originally posted by The Civillian:

So who to blame

The Parents

Congratz parents on ruining both your daughters lives by not stepping up and making them sort there♥♥♥♥♥♥out, Perticually Joyce who seemed more interested in getting a new man than the declining state of her own daughter.

Five years and neither parent thought it odd that Max and CHloe, who (From what we have been lead to belive) were pretty much INSEPERABLE from an early age, just suddenly stopped talking........REALLY

Quoth the wiki regarding Max:

It is clear that both her parents care about her greatly, due to their separate birthday texts and her mother's encouraging texts at various points in each episode. Her mother gets a special mention as Max talks about the coconut bites in her bedroom, revealing that she was given a $200 gift certificate with them for her birthday. On top of the money her father transferred to her account, we can clearly see that the Caulfields are a well-off family. She speaks fondly of her dad, reminiscing about them going to hockey games together, supporting the Seattle Thunderbirds. It's also revealed that Max's teddy bear, the Captain, is special to her because she remembers going to the ER with her mother to have his eye removed after she swallowed it.

For Chloe's case, she may have herself to blame. The wiki also suggests she has BPD, that despite that life happens after her father dies, Max moving away may not have been just something they did to promote insensitivity. In the alternate timeline, even after Max moved away then, they once kept in contact still, until that faded away. In both circumstances, Max just happened to gain more friends, which is expected if you're trying to fit in a new place, so it's not always all about Chloe. Now, with the addition of David in the family, maybe Chloe didn't want to see him as a replacement father figure, but she also chose not to accept him. Compound her possible mental breakdown, she has a complete personality change in her way of dealing with her insecurities. That is on Chloe.

Life happens. I see it all the time.

[The Civillian]

Originally posted by braddo:

I don't think max left for a few more years as you can find the photo of them dressed like pirates and Max looks more like her present self (short, lighter colored hair instead of dark ponytail and less childish face) than what she's like when you go back through the photo.

The Wikki itself says Max left SHORTLY after Williams funeral.

Originally posted by CZBGR Icepick:

Quoth the wiki regarding Max:


For Chloe's case, she may have herself to blame. The wiki also suggests she has BPD, that despite that life happens after her father dies, Max moving away may not have been just something they did to promote insensitivity. In the alternate timeline, even after Max moved away then, they once kept in contact still, until that faded away. In both circumstances, Max just happened to gain more friends, which is expected if you're trying to fit in a new place, so it's not always all about Chloe. Now, with the addition of David in the family, maybe Chloe didn't want to see him as a replacement father figure, but she also chose not to accept him. Compound her possible mental breakdown, she has a complete personality change in her way of dealing with her insecurities. That is on Chloe.

Life happens. I see it all the time.

I wanst blaming Max's parents, was just putting it as potential counter argument.

Max and Chloe didnt contact eachother for FIVE years, If you take that as LITTERAL, then they havnt spoken since october 1998, But I'd take it as an approximation.

I actually posed this question to my work collegues:

You child has a best friend that they have known for seven years, There best friend moves away 200ish miles upcountry/down country w/e.

Shortly after your child is acting up, and getting depressed, and you find out that they havnt spoke to there best friend since they moved, what would you do.

All of them said they would pick up the phone for them, and MOST said they would drive or make other arrangments for the two freinds to meet.

Its basic parenting 101, Yes people move on ect ect, But sometimes you will find that ONE friend/partner w/e REALLY early on and your together for the rest of your lives.

If I was in Joyces position I woulda picked up that phone before 2009 rolled in.

Witch also begs the question.....Did Joyce/Vanessa and Ryan not get along or something, or did they just not be friends at ALL, I find that difficult to belive.

Just seems that Chloe and Maxs not talking period was forced in just to create tention that could have been avoided if the two had a fight before Max left and neither wanted to reach out for fear of rejection.

Then again much in the game is forced sooo....yeah

[CZBGR Icepick]

Originally posted by The Civillian:

I wanst blaming Max's parents, was just putting it as potential counter argument.

You seem to be contradictory, because this is what you said:

So who to blame

The Parents

Congratz parents on ruining both your daughters lives by not stepping up and making them sort there♥♥♥♥♥♥out, Perticually Joyce who seemed more interested in getting a new man than the declining state of her own daughter.

[Lawlavch33]

Originally posted by CZBGR Icepick:

Originally posted by The Civillian:

So who to blame

The Parents

Congratz parents on ruining both your daughters lives by not stepping up and making them sort there♥♥♥♥♥♥out, Perticually Joyce who seemed more interested in getting a new man than the declining state of her own daughter.

Five years and neither parent thought it odd that Max and CHloe, who (From what we have been lead to belive) were pretty much INSEPERABLE from an early age, just suddenly stopped talking........REALLY

Quoth the wiki regarding Max:

It is clear that both her parents care about her greatly, due to their separate birthday texts and her mother's encouraging texts at various points in each episode. Her mother gets a special mention as Max talks about the coconut bites in her bedroom, revealing that she was given a $200 gift certificate with them for her birthday. On top of the money her father transferred to her account, we can clearly see that the Caulfields are a well-off family. She speaks fondly of her dad, reminiscing about them going to hockey games together, supporting the Seattle Thunderbirds. It's also revealed that Max's teddy bear, the Captain, is special to her because she remembers going to the ER with her mother to have his eye removed after she swallowed it.

For Chloe's case, she may have herself to blame. The wiki also suggests she has BPD, that despite that life happens after her father dies, Max moving away may not have been just something they did to promote insensitivity. In the alternate timeline, even after Max moved away then, they once kept in contact still, until that faded away. In both circumstances, Max just happened to gain more friends, which is expected if you're trying to fit in a new place, so it's not always all about Chloe. Now, with the addition of David in the family, maybe Chloe didn't want to see him as a replacement father figure, but she also chose not to accept him. Compound her possible mental breakdown, she has a complete personality change in her way of dealing with her insecurities. That is on Chloe.

Life happens. I see it all the time.

Just a heads up ... that entries on Wikia isnt anything "official" nor "canon"; It's still just an opinion, or one version of interpretation, from one(or maybe more than one) fan-editor. Just FYI

and... being a great mom and care about her daughter greatly doesnt always mean the same as being able to understand and feel for her daughter's feelings/issues/insecurities/trauma deep inside her daughter's mind. (especially true when her child is in late adolescence days. I knew that too well..)I dont think it's her "fault" for sure, but still... and this applies to both Vanessa and Joyce actually.

[talemore]

Originally posted by The Civillian:

I actually posed this question to my work collegues:

All of them said they would pick up the phone for them, and MOST said they would drive or make other arrangments for the two freinds to meet.

Your colleges are being questioned on a morale obligation to answer a question about what's right or wrong.
We don't know if Max is having any neurological disorders on her own considering she can travel through memories but what I seen Max is autistic in her actions where she saying she was going to visit chloe but didn't and the lack of emotional response can sometimes be explained with Max is able to timetravel but when I think about it the main reason why nothing ever happened is because Max never told her parents she wanting to visit chloe and we can force Chloe and Max to visit each other, it's the question do them really want this or was it an idea the parents had.

[CZBGR Icepick]

Originally posted by Lawlavch33:

Just a heads up ... that entries on Wikia isnt anything "official" nor "canon"; It's still just an opinion, or one version of interpretation, from one(or maybe more than one) fan-editor. Just FYI

Not "canon" is maybe subjective to you. But it's a treasure trove of information and it doesn't make up anything that isn't in the game or tells us things confirmed by Devs. If it would say that Rachel Amber's spirit animal is the doe, then it has either been a widely agreed concensus among fans or that the devs have told us explicitly. It doesn't speak of anything differently unless it's controversial comparisons to mention both sides of the coin without bias. In this case, it can't be controversial since it speaks of the evidence in game (the texts and all of Max's comments on the photos regarding her friendship with Chloe and her relationships with both sets of parents).

To say there is a rift between both families after the move doesn't quite compute since the evidence points to the contrary. So, making the parents sound like the bad guy here is blowing the situation out of proportion. The dissertation on Chloe makes more sense than another person saying that it was the parents' responsibility. For example, no one is talking about why Max's parents moved, but I can already imagine many things why. I'm not making up excuses for them, but IRL there are valid reasons to occur regardless of whether that situation transpires. In which case, it's more a display of Chloe's selfishness as well. That's more of your call if you decide to make it sound like a bad thing.

Max could be equally blamed as well for her lack of contact, but all of that doesn't mean it's all on the parents. That's enough to say that some of my lack of contact with people I knew before their suicides makes it my fault for not doing something to prevent it. Well, I'm not entirely Max Caulfield, but I am me. Things just happen, not just because it's the sole obligation of a person that makes them liable. Anyone else could be to blame, if it takes a village to raise a child.

[Jeckenn]

Max's parents may not have known at the time that for sure they would be moving to Seattle, and not knowing for sure they may have not wanted to tell Max until they did know for sure.

As for Max not keeping in contact, the same can be said for Chloe as she didn't seem to "reach out" to Max once Max moved away.

I have had similar things happen to me, when I was young I had a best friend and then my Father got a job in a new town and we moved away. It was different back then though because kids didn't have cell phones with texting and all of that, so for me and my BFF to keep in contact it would have had to involve my parents.

Because back then a kid did not just pick up the phone and make a long distance call, so the only time I was able to keep in touch with my BFF was when our parents got together like on summer holidays we would all meet at my friends parents summer cabin and we would stay there for a few weeks each summer.

However eventually we ended up loosing touch with them and me and my BFF no longer keep in touch at all...

I do agree that it was partly Max's fault however it was also partly Chloe's fault for not keeping in touch with Max.

[shai.huludx]

Totally Agree, Jeckenn. Life can get in the way and cause friends to drift apart. It is both their fault and not their fault at the same time. I'm sure a lot of us (including me) have experienced this unfortunately.

[Palatine Katinka]

Everyone made mistakes without realising it or intending harm but assigning blame does no good. Instead we should be looking to try to understand why people did what they did, how they got where they are, and how they can make amends. It doesn't matter if it was Chloe, Max or any parent that should or could have done something. What matters is knowing what to do now.

On the matter of why neither girl called the other, I think that's best expressed by the lyrics of 'Santa Monica Dream'[dontnodentertainment.wikia.com] which plays in episode one during Max and Chloe's reunion in that slightly awkward time before Chloe sees the butterfly photo, when they are still not entirely sure of each other.

[bird]

Originally posted by Palatine Katinka:

'Santa Monica Dream'.

Robs in the kitchen mak-in PIZZA