This good nice but the finite lives, are they necessary?

[metal_hamster]

As someone who grew up in the '80s, having 3 lives to complete a level is an option that is better left dead. It destroyed too many games back then. So why can we not just have check points?

Sure kids think it is cool and retro but I don't remember enjoying the experience much back then.

I'd love to try this game but not if it is going to be endless frustrating at archaic game mechanics that was out dated 25 years ago.

[Dogui]

I think it worked wonders with Oniken but it's really pointless with Odallus, since it's more open and all. But in the end it was not that bad, you don't lose any item or progress aside your position, for me atleast...

Maybe a classic/modern mode would help on that.

[Primal Fear]

I used Cheatengine to set my extra lifes to 99, that way the game is more enjoyable to me.
Strangely the game changes the memory address for the extra lifes every once and a while, so if I should need 99 extra lifes again I have to start searching again.

[metal_hamster]

Nice to know I'm not on my own on this to a point. :)

[Pat]

its a design decision. get over it.

[metal_hamster]

Originally posted by Kette:

its a design decision. get over it.

Oh yeah, very production descussion. Be quiet child.

[Phelsarus'Beel]

Hmm i have no problems with the Lifesystem in fact i stocked up on like 11 lifes right now and i barely die maybe 1 or 2 times per stage. Also it's not like Orbs are hard to get i mean if you explore each area you easily get around 100 orbs per stage and early on extra lifes are not to expensive so it's easy to have 6-8 Lifes by the end of stage 2.

In general i don't have anything against lifes but i have not seen what happens if you run out cause it never happend to me yet. I mean if it just boots you out of the stage but gives you all lifes you had rpior to entering back then it's OK in my book it's nothing you needind to repeat a few screens to get back where you where beforehand. If you don't get them back well i can see why it's frustrating because once you got a decend Stockpile and suddenly run out because of that one Boss you might be frsutrated to retry a stage with only 3 lifes again or grind for Orbs to get a decend stash of them again.

[KEV1N]

Please give us an example of a game that was "destroyed" by having an extra life mechanic.

[metal_hamster]

Originally posted by KEV1N:

Please give us an example of a game that was "destroyed" by having an extra life mechanic.

Any person who lived through that period could very happily tell you every game that was soul crushing and depressing due to "No lives - Game Over!" Ofcourse young people think it's a cool thing to put back in to gaming because they didn't live it. I can tell you that not one of us missed it when it went out of style in the '90s.

[🎃MaximusBlastalot🎃]

Infinte lives = no consequence to dying or minimal.
It works for some games but not others, and I doubt it would benfit this style of game.


Strong arming your way thru a game like this isnt very satsfiying and I am sure if you just wanted to see how it played out any way you could watch a lets play.

And while not always the case alot of those classic games are better then modern easy garbage.Dont get me wrong you have your devil may crys,dark souls and your stalkers but the majority is just blarg.

[KEV1N]

Originally posted by metal_hamster:

Any person who lived through that period could very happily tell you every game that was soul crushing and depressing due to "No lives - Game Over!"

Speak for yourself. I also grew up when having a limited number of lives/continues was normal and did not find gaming "soul crushing and depressing" because I ran out...

Originally posted by metal_hamster:

I can tell you that not one of us missed it when it went out of style in the '90s.

Again, speak for yourself. Extra lives didn't go out of style in the 90's. Most of the games back then gave you limited lives.

[sere]

you don't get to pick and choose what component is outdated and which is not. if the game appears to appreciate and honor games from the era of real "game overs", why think it might conveniently eschew the one thing from that era you dislike that anyone else would expect to remain intact? you can farm more lives at the shop ffs.. who exctly is the child in this situation? the guy who's personal distaste for a certain challenge should weigh above all else or the guy who complains about the lack of a certain feature that's actually there? oh, wait, both of those guys are the same person!! it's the guy who doesn't like archaic, outdated game mechanics that buys a game that shouts and screams its aims to immitate archaic, outdated games and their achaic, outdated game mechanics!!

[Squire Grooktook]

I only like games with penalty for failure and limited resources.

Games where you just restart 5 seconds a way after death completely bore me. I like the tension and excitement of knowing you'll have to restart the entire game from the beginning when you game over. It gives me a visceral, heart pounding excitement that new games rarely emulate.

Games based on penalty for failure also, ironically, tend to be more lenient in terms of difficulty and greater in terms of variety. In Contra, the fact that you restart on running out of continues means that you're never spending 2-3 hours grinding the same 5 second segment, like you would in a game that gives no penalty for failure and in exchange ratchets up the difficulty to near pixel perfect levels.

This is mostly why, for action games, I stick with 1 credit clearing shmups and arcade games (got a 1 life clear of Ninja Gaiden just recently, in fact) and playing games that seriously punish you for messing up (Dark Souls and it's soul/humanity/checkpoint penalty, Fire Emblem and its lengthy missions and perma death, etc.)

[Aulbath]

Originally posted by metal_hamster:

Originally posted by KEV1N:

Please give us an example of a game that was "destroyed" by having an extra life mechanic.

Any person who lived through that period could very happily tell you every game that was soul crushing and depressing due to "No lives - Game Over!" Ofcourse young people think it's a cool thing to put back in to gaming because they didn't live it. I can tell you that not one of us missed it when it went out of style in the '90s.

I miss it, since there is no feeling of accomplishment anymore. Nothing like beating a game on limited credits / lifes. Getting good at a videogame is pretty much the sole reason I am playing them - learning a game and developing as a player is the greatest feeling. If you can just steamroll through a game you will never develop that intimate relationship with it as if you were forced to get down to the wire with it. Limited lifes / continues help with that.

Granted, there are a lot of games that didn't quite get the balance right - but that was a risk I gladly took in order to enjoy the overwhelmingly positive feeling of personal growth.

Nowadays titles with built in "Press F to AWESUM" are pretty much forgettable to me, completely wasting my time and in turn making me feel bad and angry. Something I never felt with old games - old games may not do something for me in real life (which is not entirely true, since I learned to accept defeat and being persistant through them) but whenever I finish one of those oldies I feel good about myself.

Not happening with most modern games, reason being that developers lost all faith in the player (who in turn have become "consumers of content"). If your mechanics are solid, people will learn to adapt and overcome - put something on the line (limited lives) and people will feel like gods in the end.

[kokmaister]

Actually this game comes meeting you in the half way with several design decisions that mostly didn't exist back in the 80s, when many games were really ruthless about running out of lives.

1) Shortcuts that allow you to travel near the boss fight area.
2) Vendor selling lives and other gear near the boss areas.
3) Once you open some door and so on: you don't have to open it again, also a shortcut of a kind.
4) When you find some upgrade or orbs, they are stored, even if you die tens of times.

It also has upgrades, that are not mandatory, but they help you a LOT.

Like many have said above, it's a design decision, that makes you learn the systems thoroughly and then master those. It adds some real tension. This game is in that sense one of the most enjoyable experiences for me in recent years, along with Volgarr the Viking and Oniken.

[MMS]

There's a very important fact that nobody pointed out:

Lives are limited in Odallus, but "continues" - as far as I can tell - are not (and they do not remove progression either). Which means that lives are EFFECTIVELY infinite as well, even without farming them.

Actual example: I lost all my lives in a certain stage and got a game over screen. There, I chose "Retry" and the game put me back on the same stage that I had died, with 3 lives. I kept all my items, upgrades, secrets and everything I had unlocked (even the shortcut in that very stage).

So, to OP: if you're worried about getting to the last stage, losing all your lives and having to restart the whole game, don't be. That will not happen, you will still continue from the last stage with all upgrades.