your not suppose to start at max difficulty?

[viktorhallo]

hello, i started at the highest difficulty, i died like 40 times before getting the wings upgrade.

am i missing something? or is this game bloody hard, i did not have a hard time in rabi ribi at hard, or valdis at max difficulty. i destroyed hollow knight and saltn sanctuary with ease.. , but this game at max difficulty is brutal like nothing else.

its harder than ghouls n ghost + ghosn goblins at nes and snes as far as i can see, this game at max difficulty is as hard as battletoads on NES probably.

also are there no health upgrades, damage increase upgrades, or other helpful items hidden around? i tried to backtrack after getting the wings upgrade, but all i found was costumes -,-

[Lowenly]

Hello there. I'd have to say you're missing something very big. You're comparing Wings of Vi to a lot of tough platformer games, but Wings of Vi is a "precision platformer" or "platformer hell" game, and it sounds like you might not be very familiar with the genre. The major difficulty of the games you listed tends to be tough combat that requires quick reactions and proper positioning. In the platformer hell genre, the major difficulty is the platforming, and it's all about things like pixel-perfect jumps, spike mazes, air-jumping shenanigans, and multi-phase gauntlets with no time to rest in the middle. It requires a different sort of video gaming skill than most people are used to, as well as a different sort of gaming attitude. The designers of these games are purposely making it so hard that it takes a player dozens and dozens of tries just to pass one section. Normally there are checkpoints around every corner to prevent players from going insane with all the trial-and-error, but the hardest difficulty removes a lot of those checkpoints, and that's probably why you're having so much trouble (enemies deal more damage in harder difficulties, too).

You won't find any health or damage upgrades in Wings of Vi; while it might look like a Metroidvania, it’s a linear platformer, not an open-ended RPG. You'll find certain mandatory mobility upgrades like extra jumps, but that's it. There ARE some secret weapons hidden in tricky places (even trickier to find than the costumes), but they're no stronger than the default weapon; just an optional secret to find.

If this is your first time playing Wings of Vi, or your first time playing a precision platformer game, you really need to start on the easiest difficulty. I know that veterans of tough games like Hollow Knight, Rabi Ribi, etc. think they’re “man enough” to start on the hardest difficulty of most games, but the difficulty levels of Wings of Vi don’t compare to most games, ESPECIALLY to people unfamiliar with what a platformer hell means. Wings of Vi is designed specifically for true hardcore platformer veterans, but sadly, most new players have to find this out the hard way. If you try to keep going on Demon Mode, or even Mortal Mode, it’s very likely that halfway through you’re get so frustrated and stuck on an “impossible” section that you’ll give up, and that’s just a bad feeling I wouldn’t wish on anybody. Angel Mode is where the “fun” part of the game is. Angel Mode is tough, but manageable, with a smooth learning curve, lots of checkpoints, and some difficulty tweaks that actually allow you to learn from your mistakes BEFORE you die.

This might be a lot to take in, but I think Wings of Vi is a very well-designed, beautiful, and satisfying game worth playing for people that have the skill to play it, so long as they play the difficulty level that’s right for them. I hope that I have given you some perspective in regards to that; if not, maybe someone else will be able to explain it better (and in less than 500 words ).

[Meneluma]

This is gotta be the hardest game I ever played, almost went insane because the final boss on mortal took me 31 hours and 2321 deaths.

Regardless I still recommend playing on mortal because the difficulty pacing on angel is way off, I did a mortal run first and then an angel run for all the steam achievements. And the pacing is really awful, some bosses become almost trivial including the final boss compared to mortal mode where I flawlessed it on angel on my third try. While other bosses remain mostly the same except you get to take more hits and the boss dies slightly faster. Extra platforms and checkpoints make some platforming sections way too easy, while some remain unchanged. And the Life Orb feature offered by angel mode doesn't always help, in the later areas it sometimes brings you back at the checkpoint with only half health, meaning you have to respawn if the area has any combat. So increased delay between attempts. In the last large zone it also causes huge graphical glitches if you die a lot.

The first boss is also nothing compared to the second which on demon mode is a little over the top brutal if you ask me.

I'd suggest not playing on angel unless when combined with the doomed modifier(you die in one hit) all bosses aside three feel way too trivial, extra checkpoints and platforms really mess up the pacing on platforming. Angel mode is way too inconsistent, you'll breeze through half of the game faced only with a bunch of brick wall bosses in the late-mid parts of the game, well maybe in terms of playing on doomed, to those who played the game, both bosses in the fourth major zone and one boss in the following zone.

While for demon, if you are commited you could keep at it if you want, however as I did not beat it on that difficulty I cannot say exactly how it is like beyond a tiny section of the second zone.

TL:DR Choose Mortal mode because the difficulty is consistent and not too high, or stick with demon mode if you feel invincible.

[kmyc89]

Originally posted by viktorhallo:

hello, i started at the highest difficulty, i died like 40 times before getting the wings upgrade.

You are on the halfway of the Demo
http://store.steampowered.com/app/348320/Wings_of_Vi_Demo/

You don't got an upgrade- just skill #2 (flutter)

This is not Dark Souls if you want healing items, shields or other weapons*

I recommending Latias' version: Mortal Mode unless you really prefere 'God Mode'.
Angel Mode is NOT "Easy Mode"- it is the easiest. That's a different.

It doesn't matter what you choose- you get achievements ( yes- on Angel Mode you can get all)
If you are a ultra hardcore player which like to collect all items - then Demon Mode is for you.

* spoiler: There are OPTIONAL modifies

[viktorhallo]

thanks that was some great amazing reply guys!

seems like im not doing demon mode then, but instead i will do the second highest difficulty..

however, i am actually really really good at platforming.
ive beaten so many difficult platform games during my long time of gaming, it was the combat that destroyed me, especially duos of flying eyeballs, that took away 30% of my health. i also had a hard time not getting hit when fighting 2-3 enemies at the time.

but i am quessing i have only scratched the surface, and the game will keep getting harder. and if i cant backtrack to find upgrades for my char like in most metroidvanias, demon mode will be to painful for me.

demon mode had battletoad difficutly tbh.

[kmyc89]

You welcome.
But one important thing:
BackUp your Data-folder* You never know if can something bad happens.

* steam/steamapps/common/wing of vi

[Lowenly]

You've only scratched the surface indeed; it's impossible to judge the difficulty of the game from the first zone alone, or even the second zone. It's unfortunately, really; a lot of players have no idea what they're in for down the road when they start the game at a difficulty that "seems" right for them in the first area.

I'll warn you: the combat in Wings of Vi doesn't get any less annoying. Enemies love to home in on your position, or send projectiles that do, and your attacks are never going to stun them out of their attack pattern. And since Vi's hitbox is so big, dodging is not fun.

Also, my two cents: Batteltoads is "that game" people put on a pedestal as the classic super-hard game, but honestly the only thing that makes it so difficult is the lack of checkpoints. The challenges in Battletoads are not really any more difficult than your average tough platformer today, but since the stages are so long and you only get one or two checkpoints, actually beating a stage is extremely hard. So in that sense, yes, Demon Mode has Battletoads difficulty.

...in Zone 1. Then it gets worse.

[viktorhallo]

Originally posted by Lowenly:

You've only scratched the surface indeed; it's impossible to judge the difficulty of the game from the first zone alone, or even the second zone. It's unfortunately, really; a lot of players have no idea what they're in for down the road when they start the game at a difficulty that "seems" right for them in the first area.

I'll warn you: the combat in Wings of Vi doesn't get any less annoying. Enemies love to home in on your position, or send projectiles that do, and your attacks are never going to stun them out of their attack pattern. And since Vi's hitbox is so big, dodging is not fun.

Also, my two cents: Batteltoads is "that game" people put on a pedestal as the classic super-hard game, but honestly the only thing that makes it so difficult is the lack of checkpoints. The challenges in Battletoads are not really any more difficult than your average tough platformer today, but since the stages are so long and you only get one or two checkpoints, actually beating a stage is extremely hard. So in that sense, yes, Demon Mode has Battletoads difficulty.

...in Zone 1. Then it gets worse. :myougiLaugh:

thanks again for a good answer, i restarted at the second highest difficulty, which is much much easier. i didnt play for long, but as of now, its rather easy for me i died less times getting to the second boss at normal, then i did getting through the first checkpoint at demon lol.

i dont think i could have finished demon mode honestly,. the enemies are so agressive+ its very hard not to get hit by normal enemies at demon mode, they seem faster+ have much more health, and sometimes they come in greater numbers?. im basicially a platform game expert, so the platforming is very easy for me as of now.

and also, battletoads probably arent as hard as this game on demon mode., its the very limited lifes + checkpoints indeed that destroys you. i did play it on my xbox one, but you could quick save + quick load there, which made it super easy. but i have a nes aswell, but never got through the 9th stage or something like that:P

[Meneluma]

Originally posted by Lowenly:

Also, my two cents: Batteltoads is "that game" people put on a pedestal as the classic super-hard game, but honestly the only thing that makes it so difficult is the lack of checkpoints. The challenges in Battletoads are not really any more difficult than your average tough platformer today, but since the stages are so long and you only get one or two checkpoints, actually beating a stage is extremely hard. So in that sense, yes, Demon Mode has Battletoads difficulty

Ori and the Blind Forest could be on that pedestal if you would count the definitive edition added One Life difficulty where you have to beat the game without dying as a separate experience from the rest of the game. Plenty of games offer a mode that brings you back to the very start on dying/running out of lives. Except I do not even attempt those modes if a game is not a permadeath roguelike by nature, something like Wings of Vi wants patience and determination in small bursts getting from checkpoint to checkpoint. Beating Ori without dying would require endurance too because if you play it safe it would take you about 3 hours to get from start to finish, as you you would most likely go and grab all of the health, energy and ability upgrades to survive enemies and non lethal hazards easier as well as some improvements to your mobility. Regardless there are still plenty of hazards that take you out in one hit no matter what so I guess running on the bare minimum and doing it in slightly over an hour is another option, which would make the game more like doing no death mode in VVVVVV, which is a slightly harder game(still nowhere near as hard as WoV though), but much shorter ~20 minutes to do if you know what are you doing, but when every mistake kills you instantly that still becomes quite the feat to do. (Currently my best run of the game was just barely below 250 (249) even with plentiful checkpoints, although it is just my third run through) No death modes are definetly not my thing and I'd rather slog along Demon Mode here than do those, too much endurance required.
Although what I think should be considered the hardest thing to do as far as I know, is found in a relatively easy game normally. Coda clear on Crypt of the NecroDancer, just unlocking that character requires lots of skill to do and since it is a combination of three other challenge characters you can imagine how it would play out if you play those individually for a while and imagine what it would be like to do them combined.

Originally posted by viktorhallo:

im basicially a platform game expert, so the platforming is very easy for me as of now.

Well mortal mode and demon mode platforming reamins almost the same aside extra yellow checkpoints which turn into tiny yellow circles you cannot interact with on demon mode, much like the pink checkpoints available only on angel mode. On the higher difficulties you cannot see where the extra platforms are supposed to be but they are in many of places where they completely negate most of the challenge. Contrary to what I imagined, demon mode does not take away platforms, but the enemies hurt you for more HP, you lose the yellow checkpoints, bosses get huge overhauls starting on the second one and some enemies get extra ability modifiers like the Charrers(floating eyes that shoot fireballs) leave a giant spout of fire where they land if I recall corectly, compared to a tiny patch of fire on mortal. The speed is not affected, aside when you use a certain modifier, it is not unlocked by default.

[kmyc89]

I usually don't do that- but it got 100 likes:
http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=385989399

[viktorhallo]

having a great time so far at mortal mode. ive died more than 1000 times as of now, and i am at the 7th or 8th boss.
i was actually thinking this game had insane difficulty spikes, but the entire game is actually a huge difficulty spike, which i love!

i actually thought the area before the 3d boss was some super hard bonus area, but it was just one of the easier areas.

i am still having a rather easy time at the platforming but i am struggeling at the bosses... i am quessing 800 of my 1000ish deaths are from bosses..

ive actually seen harder platformers tho, since its so short between checkpoints in wings of vi.
i had more trouble in
super mario galaxy 1+2 100% completion + the final super stage at mario 3d world at wii u.
most of the difficulty in those games comes from no checkpoints tho.

i havent backtracked anything at all, are there any new weapons, or healing items, i should get my hands on? i could swear some of the guys at youtube was dealing more dmg to the bosses than me when they played at demon mode. im using the starting weapon.

[kmyc89]

Originally posted by viktorhallo:

i could swear some of the guys at youtube was dealing more dmg to the bosses than me when they played at demon mode. im using the starting weapon.

Is a matter how fast you can press your Attack key/buttom.

[Lowenly]

Glad to hear you're having a fun time with the game, Viktor! And yeah, the bosses in Wings of Vi are something special, so don't worry if you're losing most of your lives to them. Different people struggle with different parts of the game, depending on their past experience.

Originally posted by viktorhallo:

i havent backtracked anything at all, are there any new weapons, or healing items, i should get my hands on? i could swear some of the guys at youtube was dealing more dmg to the bosses than me when they played at demon mode. im using the starting weapon.

Sorry, no healing items, but there is a weapon hidden in Terrestrial Vale that might interest you. It has the highest damage in the game, but the shortest range, so you really have to be careful when using it. The only hint I'll give you is that it's before the village.

Another weapon I find useful is hidden in the Floating Keep. It has the lowest damage, but the BEST range. It can be very good for hitting enemies through walls or on high ledges. The hint here is that it's somewhere between the first boss and the second boss.

Good luck!

[Meneluma]

Originally posted by kmyc89:

]Is a matter how fast you can press your Attack key/buttom.

Not exacly, most weapons including the starting one have a little/large cooldown.

Originally posted by viktorhallo:

ive actually seen harder platformers tho, since its so short between checkpoints in wings of vi.
i had more trouble in
super mario galaxy 1+2 100% completion + the final super stage at mario 3d world at wii u.
most of the difficulty in those games comes from no checkpoints tho.

Well there is demon mode which cuts out about half of your checkpoints, so if you find it too easy you can get back to that.

[viktorhallo]

Originally posted by Wishmaker_Latias:

Originally posted by kmyc89:

]Is a matter how fast you can press your Attack key/buttom.

Not exacly, most weapons including the starting one have a little/large cooldown.

Originally posted by viktorhallo:

ive actually seen harder platformers tho, since its so short between checkpoints in wings of vi.
i had more trouble in
super mario galaxy 1+2 100% completion + the final super stage at mario 3d world at wii u.
most of the difficulty in those games comes from no checkpoints tho.

Well there is demon mode which cuts out about half of your checkpoints, so if you find it too easy you can get back to that.

hehe. i am a idiot. i keep telling myself the platforming is easy, and that the bosses are hard, but now i am stuck in this brutal elevator, which will probably take 200sh tries to get throiugh.

i could beat the platforming in demon mode, but i would never beat the bosses sadly.
ignore my stupid reply, its harder than super mario galaxy 1+2, the only mario stage thats as hard as this game at mortal mode are the final stage in super mario 3d world + the super expert stages at super mario maker.

i am pretty sure this game at demon mode is the hardest game at steam atm.

[✚ Mariel ✚]

I played on angel and Kratarac was a brick wall for me. Too many things for me to take in at once. I'm a Dark Souls/Bloodborne veteran, and even beat Undyne/Sans in Undertale, but this is indeed a different set of skills, even sans would be an easy boss by comparison. I think it was made specifically for the people who played the hell out of platformers in the 80s and than transitioned into ROM hacks rather than mainstream gaming lol