Tarantula Sentry Gun

[tofucsek]

So far I've only unlocked the lvl3 version which seems decent enough. Does anyone know how long they last? Is it a certain number of turns or enemy killed/shot fired? Mine just disappeared after a while in the last mission.
Is the lvl6 version any different and if yes, how?

Does having the 2 guns justify not being able to hire librarians at all in your party? Speaking of librarians, is it intended for them to be so crazy powerful? With the proper use of force barrier you can just make the enemy grow in numbers and take them out with a single storm AOE attack. After discovering this ability, game suddenly became trivial as you can kill Xenos in greater number than any other character is capable of.

[BrowneHawk]

Haven't used sentry gun yet, but as far as librarians go yes they are that powerful lore wise. Some of the strongest librarians could clear swathes of enemy. Im still new to the game so i look forward to mass slaughter with a librarian.

[datguy13]

The Mk 1 has 150 rounds of ammo and deals 2 damage per hit, so it usually kills about 12-15 genestealers before running out of ammo. The Mk 2 (L6 version) has 200 rnds of ammo and also deals 2 damage, so it's good for about 20 kills before running dry and becoming a speedbump.

Yes, they justify no Librarian, when you consider the Imperial Fists also have the single most powerful Chapter bonus of them all: +10% Defense, which gives them a massive advantage in survivability against melee, Flesh Hooks, and Acid Maw.

The game is not just about making the kills. You find that out as you progress into the harder difficulties that you need tactical advantages where ever you can find them, and if the Librarian runs out of Psi-points, then you're in a lot of trouble if you rely too heavily on him and don't learn viable tactics with Heavies, Sergeants and Melee Terminators as well.

[tofucsek]

Thank you for all the helpful replies.

In theory, is it possible to reach 100% Defense with this race? If so, would it give way to reality for having a melee character capable of withstanding Xeno attacks? I understand how flanking works but being able to lock down narrow tunnels could prove to be useful occasionally.

Concerns need to be overcome are:
-the exploding acid aliens which could be countered by acid proof skill
-Xeno that curses you and lowers resistance is a concern and survavibility will depend on luck

Just to run the numbers on def:

-50% from attributes (60 is possible but very costly)
-30% from weapon if memory serves me right
-10% racial skill

[datguy13]

It's not a "race", it's a "Chapter". You'll want to know that term in order to avoid confusion when asking questions. All Space Marine Terminators are human super-soldiers, so they're all human race. And it's not theoretical, it's actually quite easy to reach 120% Defense with an Imperial Fist Terminator if you increase the Toughness attribute to 5, equip the Crusher Thunder Hammer which provides a whopping 60% Defense by itself (+30% for the Crusher, +30% for the Stormshield that must be equipped with it) and then add the +10% Chapter bonus.

The result of this will be that your Melee Terminator, at level 10, will only lose about one out of every fifty attempts to defend against a Genestealer attack, and only about one out of every thirty if he's affected by the Feeder Tendril Biomorph. RNGs being what they are though, there is a variance as to when you'll lose that one defense--it could happen forty-nine attacks in, or the first time you stand in front of a genestealer. That's just how random number generators work.

[tofucsek]

Thanks again for the detailed answer. I'm still learning the terminology of the Warhammer Universe and your feedback is most appreciated.

My understanding is that having a high Defense only serves as a purpose of surviving such hits but being able to kill them with my melee attack is a whole different story. What I'm getting at is that the game became a bit dull and even though every post states that ranged is the only way to go I'm still trying to think outside the box and examining if there is a possibility for a viable melee build.

Following your numbers would mean to have a Terminator decent enough to withstand punishment most of the time but eventually would loose out to RNG rolls or being flanked? Such build could only work in narrow corridors where the mobs could only approach from the front?

[jackx]

Close combat is resolved by both sides rolling their attacks against the opponents defense (with the GS generally getting more attacks than your terminators), , the side that scores more hits wins the fight and does damage.
Terminators win draws, including 0-0 draws, so you don't have to actually hit the GS during combat resolution to kill them.

Being flanked is one of the greatest dangers there is, and thanks to flesh hooks, it's not limited to melee terminators in rooms - everyone can get hook-pulled out of position.

Ranged isn't the only way to go, it's the safest way to go.

But going down the path of least resistance ban become a bit dull, as you've found out yourself already, and trying to make other approaches work can be a lot more enjoyable.

If you haven't done so yet, try the Space Wolves.
They're a bit tedious in the early game due to their ranged penalty, but once they've levelled up a bit, you'll have the choice of either going full melee (where you'll be marginally worse than the IF iwth their defense bonus), or going stormbolter/frost weapon, giving you strong melee capabilities while retaining the ability to shoot those GS you'd rather not fight in close combat.

[tofucsek]

I could be utterly mistaken but my idea about a melee build is to have the highest defense possible in order to withstand the attacks of those GS beauties. Being realistic means they all come with at least 2 attacks and quite a few of them are with even more. Going down the Offensive path and building Terminators such way would probably result in more death as they only need to block one of my swings and they'll retaliate at least twice (or 3-4 times, depending on their number of attacks).

Having 100% or even more Defense would however mean that I can actually stand against them and get them on the retaliation hits. I would only see them as mobile force barriers to hold up enemy and wait for the unevitable until one hit connects and they die. Reading up on the original boardgame the idea was for that to happen anyway and a new clone would take their place. Playing on normal difficulty would mean to have that fallen soldier raplaced by one with equal in level so the loss wouldn't be so great and could even make sense lore-wise.

Few more questions I could think of:

1. Being no +damage modifiers to any weapons would mean that I have to hit a GS with 3 or 4 hp that many times for it to die?

2. What happens if the enemy tries to hit me in melee and being able to stand the attacks but not to kill it and it runs out of AP? If such thing happened in a single line corridor and their friends stood behind it would mean that they stand idle being blocked by their AP-less brother or they'd try to advance in a different path to get to me?

3. Wouldn't having more than 100% Defense mean that they can't hit me at all apart from the flank attack or if I'm debuffed? Does any GS have Attack% higher than 100%? In one of the previous posts from Datguy13 he/she claims that having 120% Def would only mean to loose 1 in every 50 rolls and was just wondering how would the math add up to that?

[jackx]

Melee is simultaneous, both sides attack, the number of successful hits is compared, and the side with more successful hits wins. If both sides score the same number of hits, this is counted as a win for the terminator, including when neither side scores any hits at all.

There are no draws as there were in regular Space Hulk.. The terminator wins the melee and deals damage, or the terminator dies.

You're right that stacking a lot of defense works very well for melee, though, because anytime the GS fail to hit you at all, you'll win automatically.

Broodlords and 2HP Genestealers will take multiple hits to kill, and due to that, they can occasionally run out of AP when attacking a terminator before they or the terminator are dead, and then end up blocking the Genestealers behind them for the rest of their turn.

[datguy13]

Originally posted by tofucsek:

I could be utterly mistaken but my idea about a melee build is to have the highest defense possible in order to withstand the attacks of those GS beauties. Being realistic means they all come with at least 2 attacks and quite a few of them are with even more. Going down the Offensive path and building Terminators such way would probably result in more death as they only need to block one of my swings and they'll retaliate at least twice (or 3-4 times, depending on their number of attacks).

Having 100% or even more Defense would however mean that I can actually stand against them and get them on the retaliation hits. I would only see them as mobile force barriers to hold up enemy and wait for the unevitable until one hit connects and they die. Reading up on the original boardgame the idea was for that to happen anyway and a new clone would take their place. Playing on normal difficulty would mean to have that fallen soldier raplaced by one with equal in level so the loss wouldn't be so great and could even make sense lore-wise.

Few more questions I could think of:

1. Being no +damage modifiers to any weapons would mean that I have to hit a GS with 3 or 4 hp that many times for it to die?

2. What happens if the enemy tries to hit me in melee and being able to stand the attacks but not to kill it and it runs out of AP? If such thing happened in a single line corridor and their friends stood behind it would mean that they stand idle being blocked by their AP-less brother or they'd try to advance in a different path to get to me?

3. Wouldn't having more than 100% Defense mean that they can't hit me at all apart from the flank attack or if I'm debuffed? Does any GS have Attack% higher than 100%? In one of the previous posts from Datguy13 he/she claims that having 120% Def would only mean to loose 1 in every 50 rolls and was just wondering how would the math add up to that?

So far, you've got the gyst of it quite well and Jackx, as always, hit the salient points you were wondering about.

The reason why you can still die even with such high Defense is that some Genestealers have increased Attack values. The Scything Talon 'stealers and the Broodlords will actually gain Attack CtHs above 100%, which equalizes their chance to kill against a Terminator which has over 100% Defense. As I implied though, it'll be very, very rare that you run into a Genestealer combination which is that powerful and that lucky.

[tofucsek]

I've read about the Defense value of different GS classes and was just wondering if such exist for Attack as well? You mentioned Broodlords and Scything Talon ones being an exception and they will or could have over 100% Attack? If that's the case I'm a bit worried as I regularly come across Broodlords and they usually spawn in packs of 3-6.
Is Attack % a set value for every type of GS or a result of a dice roll upon their spawn?

[datguy13]

Originally posted by tofucsek:

I've read about the Defense value of different GS classes and was just wondering if such exist for Attack as well? You mentioned Broodlords and Scything Talon ones being an exception and they will or could have over 100% Attack? If that's the case I'm a bit worried as I regularly come across Broodlords and they usually spawn in packs of 3-6.
Is Attack % a set value for every type of GS or a result of a dice roll upon their spawn?

Set values, and will be augmented based on the number and type of biomorphs they have. The only random aspect is in which types of biomorphs will spawn on a specific mission, and even that is still affected by Terminator level and Difficulty mode--- lower level Terminators will not face a high frequency of extreme biomorphs.

Unfortunately, I can't say for sure exactly what the specific Weapon Skill values for each type of Genestealer is, although some of that information will be in the tool tips and Manual.

[tofucsek]

I've been experimenting with a semi-melee build and keeping my Defense at 80% only gets me in trouble if I come across with the debuffer GS which halves resistance. With such value I could successfully wrestle all the others including Broodlords as well. If that's the case it keeps me wondering if there is actually any GS with a higher Attack% at all? You mentioned Scything Talons but so far none of them was able to hit me at all.

Post Update: after going further into a Chapter I've come across with the first Broodlord who killed me despite having 80% Defence on my librarian. Using Shield of Sanguinius spell (+20% Def) helped but still died once in every 3 attempts. Currently I'm trying to lvl up one of my melee guys to push him to 110% on lvl9 and see if he can stay alive. To be continued...

[Freed]

It *seems* like GS stats may depend on mission difficulty somewhat. I took my level 8 Star Wolves squad to a different campaign just to see something new and they were wrecking face in the early missions, but it's not the same hit/defense chances back in the SW campaign's later missions.

[tofucsek]

I'm leaning toward that theory myself. As it was stated before by a developer, Defense values of different GS types are set and that's why I thought maybe Attack is the same but it turns out to be different from the former stat. I'll keep building my melee sqad and continue experimenting with their survivability.