My first impression of playing the game

[walfrid]

Hi Hannah and Joseph - Hi everybody

I've now played a bit on the first map up to almost level 3

I like ranged fighters - so my group consists of 4 archers. Others will come in time


What have I noticed now?

I feel like the game is very unrewarding at the moment. Why? I didn't get anything during the whole run - except: 3 furs - a handful of shells - and a few nails. And yes - there were a few emeralds somewhere - too many to die - too few to live. Not a single arrow and not a single health potion. I don't even want to talk about weapons or armor and other useful things. The run was a total loss so far...

The idea of ​​the health crystals that occasionally appear when you kill is nice and original - unfortunately quite impractical because the crystal disappears very quickly - and if an AI-controlled group member, who doesn't need health runs over it, it's gone and wasted. It would actually be better to have some health potions that can be looted and then given to whoever needs it. But as I said: I didn't get any health potions anyway - anywhere.


Impractical: Where there are doors or passageways, you should also visually show that there are some - and not just when you accidentally hit them with the mouse pointer.


The combat system: Well, it works. But what I don't like:

1. Since the characters and NPCs look quite similar and there is usually little light, it would be VERY helpful to at least permanently and clearly show which character in the group is currently being controlled by the player. Brighter and, above all, permanently. I would even go so far, that i would wish something like blue, yellow, green, red and white markers permanently - correspondig to the colour of a framework (for example) around the Char's name and stats left side (or to the colour of char's name only) - making it a lot easier to chose the correct char to take over first try

What I think is absolutely unacceptable is that all characters are sent into battle without an available action. While the opponents seem to have actions available immediately at the start of the fight.

So I have to start the fight - and then run away first until actions ready, so that my companions and I can fight at all - that means: have an action ready. Or if I'm ambushed, I should run away first. And build a "can not get surprised" possibility for such cases


2. The field of vision: hardly any overview worth mentioning, just a small section. Even with only two dimensions, a clear zoom out should be possible for better overview


3. Companions who are not melee fighters should not run past me towards a group of enemies. They don't necessarily have to stay in their place, but they shouldn't constantly run into an open knife


4. When I press the space bar, the time should stop - no actions from the companions - so that I as the player always have the chance to carry out an action with a companion of my choice - and the chance seems very high that the companion does not have an action ready at that moment. They nearly never have - so I have to try to take influence to have them act in a row nicely ... difficult

This plays along with the poor overview of when a companion has an action ready. The blue bar on the left doesn't seem very accurate to me + bad visibility- this goes hand in hand with the poor visibility of which companion I as a player have just taken over.


5. The dome: actually a very nice idea - but: the edges on the floor should always be clearly visible - and unfortunately they are not always.


6. Invisibility: A character should be able to be invisible for at least a minute and at least until he is discovered. This would open up the possibility of introducing stealth potions.

The level of sneaking should influence the chance of being discovered by enemies. Special potions should protect against any discovery - until the player actively attacks.


So - that was part of my first personal thoughts on improving the gameplay from the perspective of a potential customer

Significantly more useful loot - significantly better visibility and overview - that's what I would like to see first...


And I would not make the game too hard to play - it is not Elden Ring or BG3 Honour mode. Story-mode ... medium ... hard ... to choose by custumer ... this would seem perfect for me and most potential buyers



But I had some fun after all playing. It was rather interesting to have a look at a game from a some kind different angle.


Have a nice day ... and see you

[Puzzlebox]

Hi Walfrid, welcome to the community of EA players, good to have you here!

Another player here. Wanted to give you some tips and pointer which I think address most of your concerns.

1. a. It sounds like you are fighting inside dark areas. You can pick up lanterns for cheap which cast light around your characters. Highly recommended. This also helps with a later issue you raised about spotting entrances/exits. Light sources are your friend for exploration. Personally I am opposed to the concept of further highlighting of PC's enemies, the purple shade seems sufficient to delineate targets.

1. b. Both characters and enemies have no actions upon entering battle as far as I can tell. As you have specc'ed four archers I suspect you have 4 PC's with long cool-downs on their action timers (bow's take quite a while to activate). If you want faster cool-downs consider prioritising agility and picking up better bows. You mentioned running away until you have action bars, but this might mean you could consider picking up a front-liner. 4 ranged units necessitates hit and run tactics, getting a tank, or a couple of melee fighters gives you improved action economy and let's you mix things up.

2. Zoom has been discussed frequently, personally I have no opinion on this but I think multiple users agree with you.

3. I also agree, as likely will the dev's. However, what's strange is that they shouldn't be doing that. Have you checked your tactics tab? You can tell each party member what fighting-style to prioritise.

4. Time does stop when you press the space bar. You can then cycle through your characters with the mouse wheel or using the number buttons. If you like to tell each companion what action to take your play style will of course vary but I would suggest trying to manually control only one or two PC's in combat, let the others do their thing, and focus on movement rather than actions. I suspect that with four similar archers visibility may be an issue, so perhaps default to the number keys?

5. Fair point

6. PC's are able to sneak. It's an action when you right click. The amount of time sneaking varies according to stats.

With regards loot and emeralds it sounds as if you have not made it very far into the maps at this point in time. Holding the shift key will highlight items available in the world that you might be overlooking. Loads of emeralds are available in the Lachovinian tomb, and several caves. You can also capture over a dozen (I forget the actual number) NPC's engaged in nefarious activity for a 50 emerald bounty per captured target. Make sure to knock them out rather than killing them. Additionally, there are several hidden loot spots available to characters with good sensory perception, chests to unlock, keys to find and bartering skills to play with. In my first run I had over 20,000 emeralds (which is broken, but economy is still being worked on). Loot can also be found in the same places as emeralds, and there are now many +1 and even some +2 items to be gleaned!

Good luck exploring!

[walfrid]

Hi Puzzlebox ... and thx a lot,

I had no serious probs dealing with the enemies ... my 4 archers are doing fine - it just did not feel that good to me. The feeling of combat means a lot playing a game to many players. If you intend to develop demanding combat, it should not only look good, but feel good, too.


Just took the bounty-quest - stunned 3 bandits or whatever they were - and nobody cares ... feels strange. Btw I did not find the Marshall for eventually respec someone ... not that there would be an urgent need - but just in case ...


When I hoover over a npc, there is a quickinfo. I think a good thing would be, that if I hoover over a Companion, there should be the name shown upon him at least ... that would help a lot


Tactics: Main = evade - all companions = avoid ... not bound together


Well - you could prevent a lot of running around for wasting time by giving everyone an action to use starting combat. Or let a char move into combat with dome and an action. A little movement with dome would be nice, too


Time in game runs very fast ... my feeling - did not look how many real minutes an hour is in game


I think, the KI is not that bad but working fine mostly - the actions done by my NPCs are quite ok - the movement sucks sometimes ... my persomal feeling :-))


For me sneaking and esp. using the environment is so much fun in a game ... :-))


Ok ... good so far ... let's do some more exploarations ... :-))

Have a good time

[walfrid]

Arama, Alwar and Edine were broken - apart from the fact that they had not been collected last time - probably because I had not found the Mareshal and the NPC on the board gave the quest but did not continue to process it (why actually???) - this time they all got up again immediately after I had stunned the last of them - I could not even loot because the fight started again immediately.


Inventory: the management feels rather terrible to me. Far too little space - and on top of that you also have to store the quest items. Quest items should have an inventory of their own - and be managed by the game itself ... my opinion

Identical items should actually stack automatically - and if I want to transfer something to a companion, it would be nice if the game asks me how many parts the companion should get - and then carried out the task.

[Puzzlebox]

Hi Walfrid, glad to hear the previous advice helped and thanks for providing your experiences!

Did you report the unconscious bandits to the guards? The NPC near the quest board just provides information, but I don't believe you report felons to them.

Although, I think the inventory space is sufficient myself, and I think having a separate inventory would not be ideal, you raise two important points. The first is what would happen if inventories were full and you receive items? I assume they would be dropped on the ground the same as market items? And 2, yes auto-stacking would be genuinely amazing. I understand that this should maybe be a toggle-able feature though, as not everyone would want to split items and then have them recombine when moved. I do tend to find I have multiple small stacks of twigs in a single PC's inventory. Perhaps the stack size sorting should remain in the inventory screen rather than on transfer for efficiency, but these are all options to consider.

Also, as you mention the fight starting again immediately, @HannahandJosephGames I have also experienced this with the Grave Keeper's once or twice. I assumed it was a feature, whereby they sometimes don't stay down, but perhaps there is a bug with time ticking over or something occasionally resetting fights?

Keep up the exploring and the feedback! :)

[walfrid]

Hello everyone,

thanks for your tips and support

Well... I wasn't really thinking about a "second" inventory, but rather that the game itself manages the necessary quest items.

When I get one, the game saves the item somewhere in memory or wherever - and when I need it on the spot, I can use it. A key I need doesn't necessarily have to take up the rare space in the normal inventory when I've found it. The means of creating an imprint doesn't either - nor does the imprint itself, if I made it. The game has to know that I made the imprint - and will then hand it over to the quest giver as soon as I meet him again. Done

By the way: the grave robbers were a disaster. And the companions' movements to dodge and position themselves were awful. How am I supposed to develop a strategy against an overwhelming number of overly strong opponents when my own people torpedo everything?

In addition, I am not happy with the loot (if there is any at all) or with the way my characters are leveled and strengthened - as it seems to be intended. I am not someone who checks every calculation and implements it if necessary - I think that very few people are. I am also not a fan of constantly having to respec my characters because of bosses or circumstances... yes - I know that - and I still don't like it. You should do that for the honor mode in BG3 - for the tactical mode it is not necessary if you know the mechanics and develop a good strategy.

I don't think that only a single point per level for health, strength, agility or aura ect to the intended 40 is a good idea. Not with the current balance... that's my personal feeling. I think that will exclude a lot of people who are primarily interested in discovery and the stories. According to the motto: "learn to parry and counter - or forget the game". You can do it that way if you want - but many people won't like that.

They watch a Let's play - and maybe say to themselves: nice game - but forget it ...

The developers should seriously consider which target group(s) they want to appeal to. DA4 - the Veilguard screwed it up ... for example. That will cost them a lot of money that they won't get. But they won't die poor ... hi hi hi ... ;-))

But back to Banquet for Fools

The game's own time runs much too fast for me - I feel rushed - while the status effects work in real time.

Those were my three thoughts on the current state of the game

Greetings - and have a good time

[walfrid]

Oh yes - before I, old fool, forget:

Immersion... one of the most important things in fantasy. Do I care about the characters and my companions? Or do they perhaps get on my nerves? Do they mean something to me? Can I even understand what an NPC's problem is? And does it then affect me at all?

I have NOT bought a lot of games, even though I liked some things in that world. Maybe they looked nice and appealing. Or cruel and dark.

Do I as a player have the opportunity to have a real influence on fate? And does that mean anything in the end? Or does it at least mean something to ME?


The evil run through BG3 really pushed me to my inner limits - even if it was somehow satisfying to lead some really stupid, brazen or arrogant NPCs - or those who really annoyed me - to an involuntary premature end. Even if it brought me clearly noticeable disadvantages in the course of the game. Draw conclusions and accept the consequences.

Or the only three quest series in Elden Ring that I was able to complete to a really good end for the NPCs I liked so much - even if that had no bearing on the end - and Eldenring is absolutely dark and cruel. That alone was worth buying the game - apart from the world, which is really masterfully designed in its own way.


Elderscrolls online once used to have that, at least to a lesser extent - quest series that captured you in the game. Unfortunately, they haven't done that anymore for a long time. And when you see where they are in favor today, all I can say is: Serves them right... ;-))


I'm really excited to see where "Banquet for Fool" takes me... and whether it takes me anywhere...

With that in mind... see you

[walfrid]

OK - I tested the tomb with the button puzzle.


I think I'll give up and end the whole test.

During the fight in the first chamber, not a single ghost came near one of my group. Nevertheless, two of my group lost 10 health each. The log did not record a single hit from a ghost on either of them. I don't usually look at logs.


In the previous attempt, there were almost endless respawns (how I hate that) - worse than in Dragon Age 2. But at least the ammo was free there.


I order companions: Stay where you are - move the character I took over - and everyone runs around like crazy and towards the ghosts... behind walls... into other rooms - simply great

This morning I watched "Vileurple's" Let's Play (the one that is about 2 hours long about Act 2 - he also did a much longer one)

His archer did 2 - 4 times more damage than mine do at the moment.


All in all, the game is neither fun to play for me at the moment - nor even playable in any meaningful way.

Sorry to have to say that.


Maybe I'll try it again sometime...

[Puzzlebox]

Hi again Walfrid,

Couple of details which might help you out. Regarding the Grave Keepers, you can pick up incense, either from the Chanter on the gates of the garrison, or from the market. When equipped this repels the undead, but not the Grave Keeper's themselves. Allowing for a much simpler fight. This is particularly useful when playing with only archers, as it stops the 'adds' getting in the way of your shots. With that said, when using archers, you can use multi-shot to clear several of the small undead 'adds' extremely quickly. Bear in mind Grave Keeper's spawn undead. So if you only hit the undead, they keep spawning. Make sure to take that Grave Keeper down quick!

With regards to the tomb, you were likely infected with a status effect that comes when fighting/getting hit by the undead. I forget the precise name, but it removes 10 max hp. This is probably what you encountered. This status affect can be cured by using head wraps given freely by the chanter after completing his quest, or simply by resting with either a blanket, or in a bed.

For let's plays. I believe all videos are out of date, as a combat/damage pass was done recently. As such, damage does appear to be consistently lower now. However, this is probably for the best, as this is an early access build and our character's are supposed to be relatively weak at this stage. One thing you can do is to make sure you are using 'mark' to boost damage, and also strategically place your archer(s) to do flanking shots. This leads to a rather significant damage boost rather than shooting an enemy in the front.

Hopefully after a few updates you can try it out again! :) The dev's have just announced an update on the test branch which introduces combat orbiting, which should significantly help out an archer heavy build!

[-=GUARDIAN=-]

Originally posted by walfrid:

Hi Hannah and Joseph - Hi everybody

Have a nice day ... and see you

All great Design Points, many i think are slowly being addressed, and have been noted by other players on other posts, but ur ideas are a breath of fresh air, and u are noting all good things to make the Game Glow and be Better.

I hope many of things get rolled out sooner,
But they are a small team of 2.. So unless we can get them more Sales, this list will be harder to materialise

[walfrid]

Thanks for the tips

BUT: I told, that NO ghost came near a single member of my team. No entry of "ghost fatigue" was in log. So what ? Even there has not been the known yellow mark for "GF" - which implies a reduction of 10% health for x "minutes" (10 minutes REAL time - not "GAME-Time" - from for example 40 to 36 ( which never was marked as a RED HP-loss = HIT )

No - there were clearly shown 10 Hp hits on the two party members - which according to log did not even got hit - with no ghost near to give the status "GF" via touching a member.



Item "incense" equiped ... I tried that in an earlier try - but it did not work at all ... Zero influence in fight ... I wanted to see the status-signs on the ghosts - but there were no such signs



The fights there were complete broken - esp. with the absolute crazy behavior of all of my members of team.

It was a test: "stay back" - and they ran like crazy in all directions and past my main. Changed char - tried - same crazy running.

Sorry - but it is a MUST, if I tell the AI to do no move, that the chars stand still - like outside when I position them during doing the riddle.



And I forgot to tell: no sneaking - the "grave robbers" will see you anyway ... great with max level in sneaking

Sneaking seems mostly useless to me - max leveled should have the party invisible for 8 - 10 sec ... not easy to manage btw ... first member lands a hit and gets into fight - the other 3 invisible members get in fight too - and loose their action. What a great design ;-))


No ... this is no fun at all atm ... so sorry

[hannahandjosephgames]

Yes thank you for all these suggestions and feedback!

There's a lot to comb over here but in general I think these are all things we're addressing from what I've read. This first month has been focused on fixes and feedback on the first two combat oriented maps, but we are continuing with feedback as we're now getting back to the new maps and will try to address some of these elements you mentioned!

To note on some of you last points:

- Ghost Touch ailment
We'll verify the ghost touch Ailment is working as intended. It's possible this was set on your characters that was just close enough to a ghost, note necessarily hit by one, but the game feed should relay that. Thank you for bringing that up, it shouldn't be a surprise when an ailment is contracted by a party member and we'll make sure the feed says it in this case.

- Incense
The incense should be knocking back ghosts, but only around the character who is equipped with it. It does not work on the larger "grave keepers", but does allow you to get near them more easily. It's possible that wasn't working as intended, we haven't had a report on that yet, but we will look into possibilities of that occurring today.

- Not Following Companions
If this is referring to the bottom right button to hold companions back, you are correct that this currently doesn't work during combat. Your characters need to be sort of nearby one another to travel through map exists together so we couldn't separate them too far. We could change this so they never engage in combat, unless enemies are within striking range, if they are told to hold back. We'll add this into an upcoming update!

- Sneak
Sneak provides more damage to the first target hit, but doing any action does take you out of the sneaking mode, if the target sees you combat would then start and the remaining companions would also begin attacking. So at the moment it is designed largely for a one-time attack to start combat with, or sneaking to steal items or get around an enemy.

Ranged characters can currently get around this by sneak-attacking out of sight range of targets. It is something we'd like to add more use to with combat, and group sneaking hasn't really had a lot of application yet but I agree it could be an interesting play style if the mechanics support it. Another player had an idea for having companions be able to sneak automatically when they can during combat, and we have on our list to add this in at some point.

[walfrid]

General thoughts

I would never think of telling the developers what to do. I am not a programmer or a developer. But I have a vague idea of ​​what plays well - and what doesn't.



First of all, you have a wonderful environment - even if it only has two dimensions - with very pleasant and appropriate music and atmosphere. This would certainly be greatly enhanced by a zoom out/in function.

That reminds me: A separate map for more complicated burial sites or caves (which is revealed as the exploration progresses) would be a good thing - anyone who wants to can use it - but it doesn't have to.

Use the environment and things in the environment to your advantage: Why not make objects like urns or boxes moveable, for example? The player could pick them up and drop them in a well-placed passageway, blocking access for enemies. You could do something with that... for example.

Ammunition (such as arrows) should be unlimited and free - using swords, daggers, etc. doesn't cost anything either. In addition, they would not take up valuable space in the small inventory.

Ranged weapons and melee weapons should be absolutely equal in combat. The same applies to magic.


Support is definitely important: I like the "songs" - even if I was a bit skeptical at first. But why is "learning" so complicated, expensive and time-consuming? Instrument users should be able to get better, stronger versions or additional ones appropriate to the level every second or third level up for free.


I have not yet tested pure magic - and I will not at the moment. But in general there should be no "compulsion" to have a magician on the team.


AI:
In general I am distrustful of artificial intelligence - especially in games. Fromsoft has actually really done quite well with "a handful" of all their many summons in Eldenring. But can you do it properly? When I think about my AI experience today, I have my doubts. Sorry ... not meant personally - I know, that this is VERY difficult.


Well-balanced magic attacks should primarily be chosen and triggered by the player. Nothing is more frustrating for a player than your AI going crazy or a streak of bad luck with dice. Do you want that? And if you want that, how far should it go?


My tip would be: Make things simple and so that they work. Make things surprisingly well so that the player is surprised. It doesn't have to be that many things - but these things have to be simple, surprising and good.

You don't need 100 spells and 200 weapons - you need something of all kinds that works well and (at least almost) always.

Let a melee fighter have succes with a cheap scroll for example - if he wants to.

[walfrid]

Rewards: Something that I am absolutely not happy with at the current state of things here.

I don't understand why almost all treasures are stored in tombs. OK - some of them are quite nice and that's how it should be.


But: The player fights every "day" of the game through countless, constantly recurring groups of enemies - wasting his expensive ammunition - and not to forget his valuable life time - for ... practically NOTHING???

Until he finally finds the burial grounds - and again endless respawns of mostly the same enemies?


OK - in Eldenring, for example, there are also daily respawns of the "normal" enemies after a night's rest - only real bosses stay dead after they have been defeated.

But nobody "forces" the player to repeat this constantly in order to get somewhere once he has reached another waypoint.

I liked using such areas to simply practice skills - to try out tactics - and at the same time there were also nice experience points in an appropriate number and the usual random RNG loot - with luck even something that you could definitely use.


At the moment I'm thinking: Oh - I have to go here and there again - more pointless battles for nothing - more wasted time and expensive materials - but I have to if I want to get any further.


Maybe I should just try to just run through - but I'm not really in the mood for it right now. And "running" isn't an option as far as I know ...

[walfrid]

Hi Devs ... :-))

Thanks for the detailed answer. Don't stress - I'm not expecting reports or justifications - I wouldn't claim any right to expect that.


I've tested the AI ​​- and fighting itself isn't the problem. The real problem is that the AI ​​MOVES the fighters, even when it's actually not necessary at all - and in all sorts of directions - randomly and without any sense or reason.

And that they don't stop in battle (at least for now), even though I command them to with the button at the bottom right to do no move.


I have no idea what criteria the AI ​​used here uses to move the characters when, why and where. But it doesn't work satisfactorily... stupid AI... hi hi hi... ;-))


And no - most of the time the companions follow obediently when I go AHEAD - but that doesn't require any "intelligence"... they just trudge along behind - and that's it.


It would be good if they only went into battle when I, the player, started the battle - and I haven't (yet) noticed that they start fighting on their own. So far, everything seems OK with that.


The problem only arises when I want them to stay in place during the battle, unless they are attacked immediately and directly. And then they should move as little "distance" as possible, just enough to dodge.


If I want ONE to take up a different position, then I take him over- and place him where he should be - and he should stay there as much as possible, because I know what I'm doing and why.


I realize that a real turn-based battle system would be a better choice for this - but of course that isn't as dynamic and doesn't look as impressive.

Nevertheless: the way it (doesn't) work at the moment isn't really good either.



I see: Sneaking is (nearly) usless at all - what a missed opportunity - what a pity.

But a solution would be so simple: characters that are hidden and NOT revealed stay out of the combat until they attack. Nothing could be simpler - right?

And the risk of being discovered prematurely could be regulated by the amount of points put in sneaking - where is the problem ???


To make things even more interesting, enemies could be given a set value that determines how easy or difficult it is for them to reveal hidden enemies on their part... well balanced, of course



Or make things easy and SIMPLE: enemies cannot reveal hidden chars at all... in which I would also see no problem at all.

BECAUSE: In a dynamic combat, sneaking hardly plays a role - except for specialists - and why shouldn't you give them the chance to play what they like ?

I am really sure: A lot of Players would really LOVE that ... ;-))


Make fighting as varied as possible - in a simple and practical way - with as little programming effort as necessary - and surprise the players with something good ... ;-))

[-=GUARDIAN=-]

Originally posted by walfrid:

Rewards: Something that I am absolutely not happy with at the current state of things here. ...

Hello again,

The game is in EA, so this feed back will help the dev, Fine Tune, Overall Game experience, and create a more balance system for loot when it comes to Risk and Reward and Exploration Danger and Discovery Rewards mechanics. Ur thoughts has been also share by others about the unbalance of rewards in the early game exploration, and i do believe the devs, Did add a Respawn timer for some items in the world like Fruits/branches and other items, they have also increased the Loot Density of chance for monsters to drop loot. Of coarse these can always been fine tuned as the game expands.

I believe from previous post, Since we are in EA, and many players have over reached the content of the first 2 maps, the devs has had to reduce the loot and spawn timers so players do Not become Overly too Strong for the next maps.

Simply too, they want the game to Feel Hard and challenging as u progress, with the Greater Reward is the player personally figuring out and learning ways to over come this challenge.

Start Thinking of ways to overcome these challenges using ingame solutions.

Good Luck and when u do, u will feel satisfied.