So what really was the first FPS/RPG Hybrid?

[General Plastro]

The other (rather silly) thread got me curious, what is the oldest game you guys consider to be the first FPS/RPG Hybrid?

To me its Pathways into Darkness, a predecessor to Marathon (which in turn is a predecessor to Halo) made in 1993 by Bungie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XhUWrxuE1E

It places you as a military guy that went to a aztec piramid to bury a sleeping god thats spawning monsters there.

Game had dialogue with dead (through a magic cristal), you would have to talk to dead nazis that came to the piramid in the 1930's, your former squad mates and even some mexican guerrilheros.

It featured inventory management with combat and non combat itens, item combining and much more (including a box of cloning items, very useful to clone AK magazines each 5 minutes of real time).

It also had maps and such.

I would say it has even more RPG features than Strife, altho no voice acting and more depressing (yes Strife setting is depressing, but talking only to dead people is even more so).

Anyway, do you guys know any older game than that? i would be very much interested in playing a even older game of this category!

Oh and lets please have a more civil conversation than the other thread :)

[General Plastro]

On a final note Dorok, Star Cruiser looks amazing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yND5V85iPHc

Badass soundtrack makes everything better!

[fickó]

I'd say Corporation, released in 1990 for PC and Amiga. Was also ported to the Sega Genesis in 1992 as Cyber-Cop. It's a cyberpunk FPS where you can upgrade your character with cybernetic implants, kinda like in Deus Ex or System Shock 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jflI-riB4To

[...]

Originally posted by fisk0:

I'd say Corporation, released in 1990 for PC and Amiga. Was also ported to the Sega Genesis in 1992 as Cyber-Cop. It's a cyberpunk FPS where you can upgrade your character with cybernetic implants, kinda like in Deus Ex or System Shock 2.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jflI-riB4To

See, now this is a good find. Never even heard 'bout that one before!

[Dorok]

Star Cruiser I got from wiki is from 1988, so most probably the first, it even has NPC and dialogs and its shooting seems more sophisticated than in Corporation.

I checked parts of a let's play of Strife and I understand why it could be more than PID or SS1 the first FPS RPG on MAC/Mac, for all platfoms, Star Cruiser seems win easilly but is Japan only.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeLV4qzED0k

[Kain]

Star Cruiser huh, never heard of that before, but so far it seems the oldest one.

[fickó]

Yeah, Star Cruiser looks really interesting. It's unlikely for it to ever be rereleased, I suppose, but I'd very much pick it up if it was (hey Night Dive Studios!)

[Exparte]

I grew up playing pretty much all the games being mentioned in this thread. It's worth pointing out that most of these early titles were much more RPG and very little FPS.

FPS was a term we used for games like Wolf, Blake and DOOM where the only purpose is to gun down everything in sight and move on to the next level. Today, FPS means something more than that as the genre has been expanded on. This might be why some people are debating the issue. They are using new meanings for old terminology.

We had RPGs as well even in the first person perspective but these games were more focused on story, puzzle solving, and careful combat not the fast past run 'n gun of an FPS.

Strife was indeed the first to merge the OLD school FPS with the OLD school RPG, that is to say, you gun down everything on a level for the most part but also have character choices that affect the story line (to some degree) and character progression.

System Shock was not called an FPS back in those days, it was an Action RPG.

Many of those old genres have been merged or replaced with new terms and meanings.

For example, Bioshock is classed as a FPS. But back in the days of Strife it might have been Action RPG just like its spiritual mother, SS.

Bottom line: FPS means more today than it did back in the 1990s which might account for all this debate.

[captchaos2]

Actually I always thought Wrath of Earth was the first FPS RPG. It was a great game and so much more than a regular shooter.

[General Plastro]

Originally posted by Exparte:

I grew up playing pretty much all the games being mentioned in this thread. It's worth pointing out that most of these early titles were much more RPG and very little FPS.

FPS was a term we used for games like Wolf, Blake and DOOM where the only purpose is to gun down everything in sight and move on to the next level. Today, FPS means something more than that as the genre has been expanded on. This might be why some people are debating the issue. They are using new meanings for old terminology.

We had RPGs as well even in the first person perspective but these games were more focused on story, puzzle solving, and careful combat not the fast past run 'n gun of an FPS.

Strife was indeed the first to merge the OLD school FPS with the OLD school RPG, that is to say, you gun down everything on a level for the most part but also have character choices that affect the story line (to some degree) and character progression.

System Shock was not called an FPS back in those days, it was an Action RPG.

Many of those old genres have been merged or replaced with new terms and meanings.

For example, Bioshock is classed as a FPS. But back in the days of Strife it might have been Action RPG just like its spiritual mother, SS.

Bottom line: FPS means more today than it did back in the 1990s which might account for all this debate.

Agree on most of it, but i challange you to play PiD, or (from the looks of it) Corporation and Star Cruiser. I can guarantee that at least PiD is as much run & gun as Strife.

Well, its more like as much run and gun as Wolf3d, but you get my point.

They are as much Old School FPS and Old School RPG merged together as Strife.

I guess among this already niche mix of genres, Strife was the most popular :)

And as someone pointed already, its like saying Wolf3d was the first FPS, we all know its not true but Wolf was the first one to popularize the genre.

But then again, can we really say Strife popularized the this particular mix of genre?

I mean we all know that Strife had a very unfortunate timing for its release and did not received that much attention.

I would debate it was Deus Ex that placed the this niche on the radar, but what you guys think?

[Exparte]

Originally posted by General Plastro:

Originally posted by Exparte:

I grew up playing pretty much all the games being mentioned in this thread. It's worth pointing out that most of these early titles were much more RPG and very little FPS.

FPS was a term we used for games like Wolf, Blake and DOOM where the only purpose is to gun down everything in sight and move on to the next level. Today, FPS means something more than that as the genre has been expanded on. This might be why some people are debating the issue. They are using new meanings for old terminology.

We had RPGs as well even in the first person perspective but these games were more focused on story, puzzle solving, and careful combat not the fast past run 'n gun of an FPS.

Strife was indeed the first to merge the OLD school FPS with the OLD school RPG, that is to say, you gun down everything on a level for the most part but also have character choices that affect the story line (to some degree) and character progression.

System Shock was not called an FPS back in those days, it was an Action RPG.

Many of those old genres have been merged or replaced with new terms and meanings.

For example, Bioshock is classed as a FPS. But back in the days of Strife it might have been Action RPG just like its spiritual mother, SS.

Bottom line: FPS means more today than it did back in the 1990s which might account for all this debate.

Agree on most of it, but i challange you to play PiD, or (from the looks of it) Corporation and Star Cruiser. I can guarantee that at least PiD is as much run & gun as Strife.

Well, its more like as much run and gun as Wolf3d, but you get my point.

They are as much Old School FPS and Old School RPG merged together as Strife.

I guess among this already niche mix of genres, Strife was the most popular :)

And as someone pointed already, its like saying Wolf3d was the first FPS, we all know its not true but Wolf was the first one to popularize the genre.

But then again, can we really say Strife popularized the this particular mix of genre?

I mean we all know that Strife had a very unfortunate timing for its release and did not received that much attention.

I would debate it was Deus Ex that placed the this niche on the radar, but what you guys think?

When PiD came out, and yes I remember it, no one called it an RPG. It was called First Person Adventure.

The point is, PiD was more FPS but not so much RPG. System Shock was more RPG but not so much FPS. Thus, when Strife came out it was the first true FPS/RPG at that time based on how we defined the genres then.

Of course the gaming industry builds on itself from previous games but sometimes a game breaks the common expectation and delivers something new. Strife gave us DOOM RPG.

Agreed, the only reason it didn't recieve as much attention was because Quake came out 1 month later. It's the same reason Blake Stone didn't recieve much attention being released in the same week as Doom.

You don't have to take my word for it. Dig up some old articles, PC games review mags, etc. You can see for yourself what we were calling these games back in those days.

[General Plastro]

Originally posted by Exparte:

Originally posted by General Plastro:

Agree on most of it, but i challange you to play PiD, or (from the looks of it) Corporation and Star Cruiser. I can guarantee that at least PiD is as much run & gun as Strife.

Well, its more like as much run and gun as Wolf3d, but you get my point.

They are as much Old School FPS and Old School RPG merged together as Strife.

I guess among this already niche mix of genres, Strife was the most popular :)

And as someone pointed already, its like saying Wolf3d was the first FPS, we all know its not true but Wolf was the first one to popularize the genre.

But then again, can we really say Strife popularized the this particular mix of genre?

I mean we all know that Strife had a very unfortunate timing for its release and did not received that much attention.

I would debate it was Deus Ex that placed the this niche on the radar, but what you guys think?

When PiD came out, and yes I remember it, no one called it an RPG. It was called First Person Adventure.

The point is, PiD was more FPS but not so much RPG. System Shock was more RPG but not so much FPS. Thus, when Strife came out it was the first true FPS/RPG at that time based on how we defined the genres then.

Of course the gaming industry builds on itself from previous games but sometimes a game breaks the common expectation and delivers something new. Strife gave us DOOM RPG.

Agreed, the only reason it didn't recieve as much attention was because Quake came out 1 month later. It's the same reason Blake Stone didn't recieve much attention being released in the same week as Doom.

You don't have to take my word for it. Dig up some old articles, PC games review mags, etc. You can see for yourself what we were calling these games back in those days.

Oh, you mean the actual categorization back then!

Yeah, then i guess your right, but i will admit i only got to knew of PiD much later in life. So i am taking your word for it.

Macintosh to this day never cought on here in brazil and i was already lucky enough to have a PC in the late 80's, something that was not common, let me tell you :P

At any rate, i was talking more about what (personally, of course) i think of them, not what it was categorized or tagged as back then.

PiD is everything Wolf3d is (well, actually, it has more enemy and weapon variation) and everything more of what strife is as a RPG (much more complex inventory system, map system and with dialogues where you had to type in what you said (like good old RPGs). It also had 3 diferent endings + the failure ending.

All in all, i really find hard to say Strife was the first of its kind (unless we are talking about nomeclature only, as you said). When with PiD (i wont say anything about Corporation or Star Cruiser because i havent played them) you pretty much have the same setup.

To me Strife is a simplified version of PiD that runs on a better engine and has much more fluid controls and mechanics.

PiD is to Wolf3d what Strife is to Doom, i would say.

With all that said, i think i love Strife more, with it i really have a much more immersion feel than the very depressing PiD.

I mean, one is a story of rebellion and hope, the other is a story of delaying a sleeping god from awakening and destroying our world (which is implied to be inevitable).

So yes, despite the grimness of both games, Strife seems more like hearted and i prefer that.

Also, Strife is lightyears ahead in the Soundtrack department (which, btw seems like it is a "ageless" thing, cause Star Cruiser also has a much better OST than PiD).

[there is no band]

Originally posted by Dorok:

• Knights of the Old Republic (questionable due to pause/turn) (2003)
  
  
• Knights of the Old Republic 2 (questionable as for the 1) (2004)

I had to re-read your post a few times, just to check that you really were talking specifically about FPS/RPG hybrids. Holly crap man, just holly crap!
I especially loooove how you added that Knights of the Old Republic being FPS/RPG hybrids is questionable... because of pausable combat of all things!
Well, I can't say that Steam forums don't deliver... in their own, "special" way.

Now if you'll excuse me, I will go back to playing Knights of the Old Republic, I alway loved FIRST PERSON SHOOTING in that game!

[Pangolin Legends: Arceus]

What a great thread! Thanks for bringing up some old memories.

I think I would personally allow Ultima Underworld, although it's probably not the first. The main sticking point is of course that it's not a "shooter", so it's a first person game but not an FPS.

I always think the most important thing with classifying games into genres though is the experience of playing the game. For example I will call something a roguelike even if it has a lot of persistance and not really permadeath so long as the core gameplay _feels_ roguelike.

I think the experience of moving around in ultima underworld feels like an fps even with no shooting. Maybe I'm wrong and should go and play it again!

[Lu2]

kingsfield?

[丂ｱ乇丂丂ひ_丂乃]

I'm guessing prolly maybe Hexen series.