Gatekeeping Progress

[Steinaar]

So my first play through I started on Junior difficulty to learn how the game plays. I only invested a little time learning, up until the Spring Games. Once I gathered some intel and hit the first milestone progression stage is when I decided to start anew.

I figured my next play through would also be on Junior difficulty as well, I didn't feel comfortable enough quiet yet. Not to worry I can always play anew with more challenge later...and off we go.

As I progressed through the game I was fairing much better, winning almost every arena encounter I stepped afoot. With double the fame n glory vs other Lanista's. I noticed a daunting game mechanic that saddens me deeply. No matter how well I was fairing vs the competition in the overall world. I sadly still fell short and was always lacking, no matter my triumph.

Checking the top gladiator logs about 21 days, three weeks, to go before the first milestone progression stage. I was at least five plus levels behind everyone else. My gladiators were 20ish wins for maybe two or three losses. How am I behind? No worries, double down my friend and the day shall be mine.

The enemy fielded milestone, golden-yellow, level ten full gladiator teams vs my basic white level 5-8 teams. How, I have no idea since they were losing and I was winning by large margins. Three weeks to get prepared for the Spring Games.

As I kept fighting strong and maintaining my victory lead. Three weeks later the Spring Games are upon us. Now the enemy has full teams of, blue, milestone level fifteens vs my barely level ten group. How I have not the faintest idea.

Fast forward a few days just after the spring games and the enemy jumps to having one or two purple level 20's in their gladiator lineup's now. My best guy is level 14 but and most my guys are still just barely past getting level ten.

It seems to me the game will GATE KEEP you and you will always be behind no matter how well you play. To top it off the game drops unique named gladiators into the mix at this point too. Of which I have ZERO but all the other Lanista's have at least three. Making playing events almost impossible.

I must be doing something wrong, even winning aye. Doh!!! Gatekeeping progress at this rate is not fun but infuriating. Like a puzzle game, meh not into puzzle games where you must play exactly one way or you lose.

[Steinaar]

So I decided to start anew again, maybe speed the progression of my training of gladiators even more so than before. What I've learned thus far is you need a dedicated;

ASAP
-DrillMaster
-Healer aka Doctor
followed later by
-Smith
-Cook

In that order of importance. Also when those wandering merchants come to the gates of your arena is when you can obtain the gear for said professions. If you are ever going to save scum for a stupid reason, this could be one of them. Get the chest pieces for the professions to boost their crafts. I've, personally, only seen these items appear in the wandering merchants.

I've also learned to get my gladiators properly skilled better now too. Every gladiator can have multiple classes to spec into but most normally will only have one or two weapon types. Such as;

Classes:
-Everyone gets Commander for the heals and it's the first skill to boot.
-Everyone gets Fighter for the Kickdown CC and it's the first skill to boot +MedArmor for later if applicable.

- Shield guys get Defender for Intercept later game saves your weaker team mates, Heavy Armor duh, then the big W is Unyielding lets you get back up with 30%HP if for some reason you over aggro.

-Rogue class can be used by any weapon type user. Blinding Dust and Venomous Weapon are pretty solid choice skills that will help you defeat stronger opponents in the arena.

-Duel and 1H/2H guys get Berserker for Unleashed Rage for raw +dmg, Headbutt for CC, and later Death Resistant is very clutch self revive type of skill. Since these guys rely on dodge to stay alive having these skills help IMO.

Weapon Types:

Things like the temple offer some pretty cool weapons that allow you to multi spec into several weapon trees. The polearms that you get from the temple also have 2H spec into them too. So you can double down both those trees if you use those weapons.

[Steinaar]

Now the issue I am running into is still concurrent. I am 50 days away from Spring Games, I've only lost one fight thus far.

My main fighter group is;
8 being my best gladiator
8
7

My secondary fighter group is;
6
4
4

Again 50 days until Spring games and I have only lost one debut. A lot of yellow level tens in the field with the highest level 14 that I have to avoid at all costs. Why am I always behind?

You know I have to avoid arenas because some of these guys are out level, out gear, and matching my skills for class/weapon to boot. I get it a challenge but I am on Junior difficulty!!! Once that milestone has hit I dunno if this run will be any easier since I have been doing better but I fear it will be the same. Unique gladiators will fill the ranks of my opposing lanista's arenas.

I think this is a fundamental flaw in the games design overall. If anything the unique gladiators come too early and need be trickled in slowly. Like the best of them much later on the games date.

[Butcher]

Try to get dedicated machinegunner - train heavy crossbow to the last skill quickly shooting 30 bolts (death zone or whatever its called), get poison weapon. It is a fairly easy way to win spring games including taking down optional troll, just make sure 3 other dudes can hold the line.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3371510135

[Steinaar]

Originally posted by Butcher:

Try to get dedicated machinegunner - train heavy crossbow to the last skill quickly shooting 30 bolts (death zone or whatever its called), get poison weapon. It is a fairly easy way to win spring games including taking down optional troll, just make sure 3 other dudes can hold the line.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3371510135

I've won Spring Games and the Troll three times out of three save file plays now.

It's that I am always so weak comparative.

However misleading, it is a very fun game though and I do enjoy it.

Maybe I need to alter my ambitions and trying to be the top arena/champs but I thought that was the premise of the game at first. No min/max vs algorithm. you play better, they play even better...doh

Those machine gun crossbows, ranged sucks early game, but man super OP later. Melts
thanks for the tip but yeah I seen it happen vs me in a fight before and was blown away literally :p

[bakagrappler]

So it kinda seems like your posts here were to air out your emotions for the game. So, thanks for the read. If you have any actual questions, please let us know, and know that I have a guide for sample Gladiator Builds for this game that you can check now that you have some background info from a few partial playthroughs.

But.

Probably the reason you are seeing so many Gladiators that are more powerful than you is that you were slow in getting an Inborn Drillmaster, and that you've been executing Gladiators on victory. You don't want to be executing them, because then the glads get replaced with stronger opponents. The Arenas have to maintain a roster, and every one you kill gets replaced with one more "on par" with your current lineup.

You are the one who ramped the difficulty by executing, instead of sparing.

[Steinaar]

Originally posted by bakagrappler:

So it kinda seems like your posts here were to air out your emotions for the game. So, thanks for the read. If you have any actual questions, please let us know, and know that I have a guide for sample Gladiator Builds for this game that you can check now that you have some background info from a few partial playthroughs.

But.

Probably the reason you are seeing so many Gladiators that are more powerful than you is that you were slow in getting an Inborn Drillmaster, and that you've been executing Gladiators on victory. You don't want to be executing them, because then the glads get replaced with stronger opponents. The Arenas have to maintain a roster, and every one you kill gets replaced with one more "on par" with your current lineup.

You are the one who ramped the difficulty by executing, instead of sparing.

Partly to question the algorithm on min maxing.
Partly airing my frustrations, yes.
You are correct on this. Also for others that may have the same quarrels. You can not min max in this game because it doesn't allow you to be the best no matter how well you play. I was approaching this game from a wrong perspective.

Well on one of my play through yes, you are correct, I was executing them. They returned stronger. You do know this game well. This I failed to mention but you identified it. However it was only in one of three play throughs I did this, thus making it even harder it does.

But my concern is still valid. On one of the easiest difficulties it ramps to hard. Not that hard means I can't do it but it never allows you to be strong. You're always behind, even with 25/3 gladiator. The games algorithm populates an even stronger to gate keep you from being the best. Even if you are actually better vs the competition it never let's you feel that way, gatekeeps the fun emotions IMO.

How is their gladiators skilling, gearing, leveling, outpacing me with a 25/3 record gladiator. That's not right, makes it all seem meaningless. So once you did one fight in the demo, that's it the entire game has been experienced. Rest is just flavor? Nah it's a fundamental flaw in the games design to not allow you to be stronger and better vs the competition when you do everything perfectly. If we can't fix this flaw in this game I don't want it carried over to the next iteration of this games future.

[bakagrappler]

I disagree. It's all about building your characters and keeping up with the difficulty curve. To do that, you need to be min maxing to a certain extent, and you get rewarded for doing so. I used a level 21 character to defeat a level 25 Unique Gladiator, one of the harder ones that uses a poleaxe, and a 1 on 1 battle. And this was while I had a level 27 Gladiator as the MVP of my arena. The game ramps itself along a set difficulty curve that you set at the creation of your game file. The game is not cheating based on your roster; it's forcing you to expand your roster to keep up with the game.

So I find your observations to basically be expressions of frustration instead of actual constructive feedback of the game for developers and players alike.

Look, it's not an easy game, and you need to cheese things to an extent if you want to be really successful. There are parts that are legitimately too hard or are badly explained in terms of difficulty (like Asbjorn and being able to delay the Shapeshifter questline). But the difficulty ramping is linear. It doesn't cheat in the way you are claiming it does. This seems like a you issue and not an issue with the game itself.

Yes, the game takes off the training wheels and you're facing opponents in Epic gear the moment you get past the Spring games. Yes, the Unique Gladiators are a pain in the butt, but most of that comes from their skills and equipment synergies; and you can get that equipment by doing the Arena Challenges and working you way up to the better prizes they offer, which are the unique gear of the Named Gladiators of those arenas. There is also MAGIC that very few opposing Gladiators bring into play, that you can make massive use of.

There are tools to offset the difficulty of the game. There are community resources here to help you unlock your potential. This is a you issue in the end, though.

And before you respond, I had a LOT of negative feedback for this game when it launched. And the Devs saw that, and fixed the issues I and a lot of others had about the game. It is in a very good place compared to where it was on first release. And you are the only person who has claimed the game cheats in the way you describe. If I felt your experiences were accurate (I'm not saying invalid because they are valid to you, as your own experiences), then I would back you up. I am a person who feels that constructive criticism is required for the betterment of the world as a whole. But I don't think your criticism here holds water.

[Steinaar]

Originally posted by bakagrappler:

I disagree. It's all about building your characters and keeping up with the difficulty curve. To do that, you need to be min maxing to a certain extent, and you get rewarded for doing so.

The curve always keeps you weaker the moment you progress any bit. Literally tested this, save scumming, and three play throughs in a row to verification. All on Junior difficulty mind you. This isn't a debate about this algorithm, it's me saying it's not fun to never reach that feel good moment. It's like playing Engagement Based Match Making, it's never your skill it's the game predeciding everything. So feeling good about doing good is never a thing.

Originally posted by bakagrappler:

So I find your observations to basically be expressions of frustration instead of actual constructive feedback of the game for developers and players alike. This seems like a you issue and not an issue with the game itself.

You are entitled to your opinion. As I am to my own views that I expressed in detail. If I just said this is doodu you would be saying but why. I explain and you say skill issue, game perfect. Okay buddy games that revolve around save scumming to play are kinda lame, idc what you say.

Originally posted by bakagrappler:

There are tools to offset the difficulty of the game. There are community resources here to help you unlock your potential. This is a you issue in the end, though.

And before you respond, I had a LOT of negative feedback for this game when it launched. And the Devs saw that, and fixed the issues I and a lot of others had about the game. It is in a very good place compared to where it was on first release. And you are the only person who has claimed the game cheats in the way you describe. If I felt your experiences were accurate (I'm not saying invalid because they are valid to you, as your own experiences), then I would back you up. I am a person who feels that constructive criticism is required for the betterment of the world as a whole. But I don't think your criticism here holds water.

So your criticism was valid but others is not, now that the game is in a perfect state to your feelings. My feelings are invalid and inaccurate representation of the game. This is where we part ways. If you don't respect others, others can't respect you. That's how it works. Disagreeing is fine but to outright say everything I said is wrong and invalid is crossing the line. Good luck!

[bakagrappler]

Yeah, I was kinda expecting an insult oriented blow up here after reading your first series of posts once I realized that I was going to have to try and break the news nicely. And I never said mine was the only criticism, I implied that there was a lot of criticism on the board in my post if you care to reread it.

But yeah, your blow up here in classic toxic Reddit fashion is kind of proving my point that, in less polite terms; this is a YOU issue. And I don't know what you're saying with "good luck," so I'll wish you a nice day instead; because I do hope you have one to improve your mood, and it's a line that actually makes sense.

Once more, I wish you a good day.