Design flaws or not?

[retrobarbaari]

Do you think these are design flaws, would need rethinking? Suggest other design flaws? I haven't played late game for a long time, so I don't have late game suggestions.

1. Not enough low level arena fights when the game begins.
A few of reviews and forum posts see this as a big problem. IMHO if you are experienced in the game, it's not a huge problem, but it is challenging. I've restarted the game many times in the original game, twice in Reforged, and I plan next time to take all the starting money in custom setting, because earning chances are low very early game.
I would like to see more arena fights for 1 - 4 level gladiators. And they could continue appearing a longer time too, because you probably still buy new slaves when your top gladiators are past level 10.

2. Outside arenas missions start too late.
Early game might be boring for new players. They don't know yet that later you can do adventure missions outside of the arenas. And in early game only a few arenas are open for you.
Money is tight early game, smith and alchemist don't have early game use (except research) because no raw materials. You don't smith anything for your early gladiators.

4. Some of the mission maps are REALLY dull, small and lack tactical interest.
The worst are the caravan and the beast hunting missions. Ruins are pretty good and good looking too.
Yeah them small mission maps are fast to play, someone might appreciate that a lot. To me they are boring after played them so many times.
Perception could matter how well you can detect and be detected, track animals and notice traps. Intelligence could help disarming traps. Some of the traps could be hidden, and then also found and disarmed/avoided before triggered.
Caravans could move, there could be different ambush places. Stop and camp, use a campfire? Crossing a river? A narrow pass between cliffs? Guard towers? Other travelers on the road?
Torches and campfires could affect vision and what you can detect.
Wilds could have more animals and chances to aggro more less dangerous creatures, if they kept wandering around. What if you expect just wolves, but there was also some more dangerous beast (not your primary target) around?
There's just so much how missions could be made somewhat interesting.

5. Damage types not really well thought nor matter.
Armors offer nearly identical protection to all damage types. Do you choose your gladiator opponent looking at their weapons and armors, what sort of damage they do and can take? Well I don't. Doesn't make a difference.
Do you ever buy elemental protection? Or are other buffs more important?
Materials used in armors could have an effect in protecting different sort of damage.

6. Market sold items inferior to items used by NPC gladiators and needed by the player.
I'm at a phase of game somewhat past Spring Games. Every NPC gladiator uses blue rare armors and weapons. But merchants sell green fine weapons and armors. Rare weapons may be more commonly sold than rare armors.
Thus basically, NPC gladiators have unfair edge against the player. Do they get rare equipment too soon?
Why do traders even sell common quality items, as at this point there is ZERO interest to buy any? All of the weapons and armors I have are either fine or rare, some epic. If I should arm new gladiators, I have no use for common quality items.
Do common quality items become obsolete too soon? Should those be used longer in the game (and that includes the NPCs), and are rare quality too common (certainly are among NPCs at this phase)?

7. Slaves sold in the markets too low level for later game.
My top gladiators are now level 16 - 19. Slaves I can find in the markets are level 2 - 4. Why oh why, would I buy so low level slaves? They are too far behind, even if I could mass product experience potions. And why I wouldn't use them potions to my top gladiators?
Also at this point slaves that have ranged weapon mastery but no classes that use ranged weapons, or have melee weapon mastery but have a ranged class, are unwanted. In very early game you might need to buy one, as the amount of slaves you have had possibility to buy, is still very low.

8 . Stop/follow command in missions.
Very good that you can stop other party members following the gladiator which you command. But when you plan to lure enemies, or when your enemies near are killed, your party members aggroing makes it very hard: need constantly command them to run back.
You can change the aggroing behavior in the tactics setting, but who does it every time to all gladiators who participate in missions, and then return the original setting after mission ends?
Maybe clicking the stop button should disable attacking any targets, and clicking the follow should enable it? That way it would be behind one button to stop all your party members aggroing, or put them into combat action.

9. Advanced gladiators
They are really over powered. Maybe some players want these, but for others it would be nice if you could set their spawn number to zero.
Challenging is good, and I think it should be done by having challenging enough normal gladiators. Either have also higher level games and monsters around one could do, or have difficulty settings to add enough difficulty. But having ridiculously OP gladiators among the normal ones: bad idea. I want them out, and would use the custom setting to do so, if I could.

[Butcher]

1. The place of low level areas gets taken by missions - even group of level 1s can beat up villagers, 4 level 1s can most definitely defeat goblin cave.

6. It promotes the need for blacksmith. If I got good smith earlier I could get purples before spring games.

9. They get much easier once you got poison and crowd control on everybody. In fact it would be roflstomp without advanced gladiators.

[retrobarbaari]

Originally posted by Butcher:

1. The place of low level areas gets taken by missions - even group of level 1s can beat up villagers, 4 level 1s can most definitely defeat goblin cave.

Missions don't exist in the beginning. And easy missions become rare pretty soon.
Yeah you can send low level gladiators to missions, maybe with some better gladiators too.

(I noticed the part below of my reply, mainly has to do with flaw number 7, not number 1.)
That's the main use for them, as they hardly ever become competitive enough to participate harder arena games (I do use them in arenas too, with better gladiators). But I think that's a shame, and you should get slaves later too, who can become your top gladiators.

Originally posted by Butcher:

6. It promotes the need for blacksmith. If I got good smith earlier I could get purples before spring games.

That would be pretty fantastic luck.
But how many such items could you forge? Takes a lot of time and material to fill your whole gladiator school with smith made weapons and armors.
I'm past Spring Games and my smith is level 7, she can smith fine armors (requires level 6). Yeah, she doesn't have the inborn trait. And no she wasn't my first slaves, but pretty early and has been researching and forging all the time.
Even if you have such a fantastic smith and have smith forged armors with all your top gladiators... the question reminds: so what good is the merchant, if weapons and armors sold there are obsolute and unwanted?

Originally posted by Butcher:

9. They get much easier once you got poison and crowd control on everybody. In fact it would be roflstomp without advanced gladiators.

Shouldn't it be better then to address this with difficulty settings, rather than have cannon fodder gladiators that offer you no challenge?

[Butcher]

Originally posted by retrobarbaari:

Originally posted by Butcher:

1. The place of low level areas gets taken by missions - even group of level 1s can beat up villagers, 4 level 1s can most definitely defeat goblin cave.

Missions don't exist in the beginning. And easy missions become rare pretty soon.
Yeah you can send low level gladiators to missions, maybe with some better gladiators too. That's the main use for them, as they hardly ever become competitive enough to participate harder arena games (I do use them in arenas too, with better gladiators). But I think that's a shame, and you should get slaves later too, who can become your top gladiators.

I think there would be use for captured slaves on ironman difficulty. I am not brave to try it yet though.

Originally posted by retrobarbaari:

Originally posted by Butcher:

6. It promotes the need for blacksmith. If I got good smith earlier I could get purples before spring games.

That would be pretty fantastic luck.
But how many such items could you forge? Takes a lot of time and material to fill your whole gladiator school with smith made weapons and armors.
I'm past Spring Games and my smith is level 7, she can smith fine armors (requires level 6). Yeah, she doesn't have the inborn trait. And no she wasn't my first slaves, but pretty early and has been researching and forging all the time.
Even if you have such a fantastic smith and have smith forged armors with all your top gladiators... the question reminds: so what good is the merchant, if weapons and armors sold there are obsolute and unwanted?

The merchant sells materials. I haven't found any mythril ingots yet, but merchant sells them from day 1. Plus materials are cheaper than complete armor.

Originally posted by retrobarbaari:

Originally posted by Butcher:

9. They get much easier once you got poison and crowd control on everybody. In fact it would be roflstomp without advanced gladiators.

Shouldn't it be better then to address this with difficulty settings, rather than have cannon fodder gladiators that offer you no challenge?

I agree that there should be difficulty with no supergladiators whatsoever. Just even highest difficulty is not that bad and doable (without ironman anyway). Battles against them often turn into a puzzle and for me it is enjoyable.

[retrobarbaari]

Originally posted by Butcher:

n fact it would be roflstomp without advanced gladiators.

Try tag fight 1 vs, 1 Yu Lian.
I happened to have a dual weapons gladiator against her, so there was bleeding.
Maybe an interrupt gladiator could do better against her, but I doubt it, she has pretty high dodge and her stun skill recharges fast. And much of the time she is flying.
She was one level higher than my gladiator, and in 6 or 7 attempts I didn't win the 1 vs 1. Did get her almost but not quite dead.

Ranger Advanced gladiators can be taken down by constant manual kiting.

But I don't think it's a good idea to have cannon fodders and supermen.

[Vvv]

Originally posted by retrobarbaari:

Originally posted by Butcher:

n fact it would be roflstomp without advanced gladiators.

Try tag fight 1 vs, 1 Yu Lian.
I happened to have a dual weapons gladiator against her, so there was bleeding.
Maybe an interrupt gladiator could do better against her, but I doubt it, she has pretty high dodge and her stun skill recharges fast. And much of the time she is flying.
She was one level higher than my gladiator, and in 6 or 7 attempts I didn't win the 1 vs 1. Did get her almost but not quite dead.

Ranger Advanced gladiators can be taken down by constant manual kiting.

But I don't think it's a good idea to have cannon fodders and supermen.

From experience, those swift flying kung fu guys struggle against tanks. I won a battle against some guy that was doing impressive stuff like jumping on your head and stunning you.

Had a tower shield bearer who was over 50% dmg reduction in all and over 80% block rate. He killed me, my guy revived and killed him. The battle ended where he did like 600+ dmg to me or so, I did to him only 300 lul.