The reason people concede.

[Adachi]

I like to think of it being largely reminiscent of Hearthstone (although conceding is much less common in THAT game than here). People not only want to win to get the Victory Gold, but also combined with the quests they're trying to complete (namely the "Win Game" quests), they'll be able to walk away with a massive profit.

Admittingly, I was like these poor saps when I played Hearthstone. If so much as a Rogue coins out the Disguised Toast and gets my glorious 3/2, then I might as well quit since at that point I pretty much lost. And don't get me started on the infamous Face Hunter.

My point being is that, and I know I'm being a cynical git here, is that people only play to win. Because what exactly do you get after losing a game other than lost time?

Hearthstone had that problem of keeping you in a game you were going to lose because maybe, just maybe you could squeeze out a win. And just when you think you're about to, the Mage Pyroblasts your ♥♥♥♥, the Patron Warrior gets past two Sludge Belchers and hits you from 30 to 0 with the 7 exact cards he needed, or Face Hunter top decks their Skill Command and bites your ass to the point of constipation. Most of the people who play Origins have most likely come from Hearthstone in hopes of relishing that fresh start smell are gagging in disdainful odors.

If it's true that people quitting games in Origins ruin games for other players (as well as their gold income), then it might not be long before this game that just took off from the runway crashes and burns in a place where it will never be heard from again.

[Xenial Jesse]

Opprinnelig skrevet av #JustSayNo2HG2016:

It is NOT rude to concede a lost game - no one is saying that. But it IS rude to force your opponent to play out the game against an AI opponent. Those are two different issues.

Then all you have to understand is that I never forced anyone to play against an AI opponent.

And you have zero chance of getting people to think that we must carry responsibility for Stainless' brainless decisions. Point responsibility in the right place; stop making negatives out of players who did not implement the AI takeover.

[Cablenexus]

Then they have to make the game more personal. As a new player I feel like I play against bots of A.I. when I start a game of Magic. There is no interaction between players and you cannot even see against what kind of player you battle. There is no ranking there is nothing to be proud of to win or loose a game except for the gold. When I feel so alone in an online game I really don't care to quit a game personally.

[RHF]

They should just make a change to the system where the player conceding has to give up gold to their opponent. Win/Win and the match ends there.

[Xander9009]

Do you know what will happen if you concede? Do you concede the game? If you answered yes to both, then you are as responsible as Stainless. It requires two parts. It requires a badly designed system from Stainless, AND it requires your choice to play into that bad design.

If you don't feel like your decisions can make you responsible for those decisions simply because those decisions are made in a system which was badly designed, then you are not taking the responsibility you deserve. Be mature and recognize that your decisions have consequences for other people, and when you make choices that hurt another player's experience, it is, in fact, your choice which hurt their experience. That doesn't mean Stainless isn't also at fault, but you are not magically absolved of the consequences, despite how minor they are, of your own decisions.

[Mikoto]

if they want me to stay in a match when i have no cards and no way to defend or fight back then they have to put some way to talk to the opponent because i'll just back out everytime i run out of options to continue playing the match

has nothing to do with "being a sore loser" or anything, it is a complete waste of time for me to stay and pray to the rng gods for another ceature or land to use after being wiped out previously

[Mikoto]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Xander9009:

Do you know what will happen if you concede? Do you concede the game? If you answered yes to both, then you are as responsible as Stainless. It requires two parts. It requires a badly designed system from Stainless, AND it requires your choice to play into that bad design.

If you don't feel like your decisions can make you responsible for those decisions simply because those decisions are made in a system which was badly designed, then you are not taking the responsibility you deserve. Be mature and recognize that your decisions have consequences for other people, and when you make choices that hurt another player's experience, it is, in fact, your choice which hurt their experience. That doesn't mean Stainless isn't also at fault, but you are not magically absolved of the consequences, despite how minor they are, of your own decisions.

i think that if anyone is going to understand what you are talking about, he or she will need the same substance you used to get high...

[Saiyansixx]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Xander9009:

Do you know what will happen if you concede? Do you concede the game? If you answered yes to both, then you are as responsible as Stainless. It requires two parts. It requires a badly designed system from Stainless, AND it requires your choice to play into that bad design.

If you don't feel like your decisions can make you responsible for those decisions simply because those decisions are made in a system which was badly designed, then you are not taking the responsibility you deserve. Be mature and recognize that your decisions have consequences for other people, and when you make choices that hurt another player's experience, it is, in fact, your choice which hurt their experience. That doesn't mean Stainless isn't also at fault, but you are not magically absolved of the consequences, despite how minor they are, of your own decisions.

This 100%. There is ZERO times where conceding is a good thing. There is no honor in it. In magic there can always be a chance to turn the game around, and compettive matches make the game fun, not steam rolling over people. People who quit are bad sports, plain and simple, no excuses. (besides of course, an IRL issue popped up that was more important, that i totally understand)

Also to those saying no one complains about conceding in real magic. Have you just started playing? Conceding has been a topic of debate in paper magic since 92. I for one dont believe anyone should ever concede and that applies to real magic as well.. It undenaibly dilutes the victory, because at that point you didnt beat your opponet, they quit. Its bad sportsmanship, and the best gaes in magic i ever played would have never happened if i had played with quitters like some of you. There is nothing good about quitting. Keep your honor, never give up, never surrunder, and be a good sport.

[Roz1281]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Saiyan Prince:

I completely disagree. I have always been anti scooping, as its a terrible display of character in my opinion. how many thousands of games have i played where all seemed lost, the opponet was beating my brains out, but i held on, got that perfect card, and turned everything around. This is Magic, where anything can happen. I find it as being a sore loser to see someone quit before the game is done. Its different if you quit while im swinging for lethal and theres nothing you can do, but most quitters will quit 5 turns before the game is over becuase they are gettign beat. I have never, will never, scoop on a game. You can be 1 to 20 and get that magic card that turns the momentum back in your favor. Never give up, Never surrender, and be a good sport, not a quitter.

Hey just wanted to give another opinion to this thread. And I'm not trying to be a ♥♥♥♥, just something to think about.

When i was younger, I was all honorable about my gaming. No matter what i was playing I wouldn't concede or quit until the opponent won. Whether i was playing an FPS, card game, chess etc. Somehow i subconciously thought it made me a person of better character (as you say a person who quits early shows a terrible display of character).

Then I got a little older and realized it's a silly and immature way of thinking. I got into paper magic and people would concede all the time. It's not rude in the slightest. If i know i'm going to lose, I'm not going to waste my time (which i'll spend how i want thank you) watching you do all your fancy moves and beat me when it's obvious you've won.

You say you can make a comeback and draw a card that helps you win. I want you to understand that most people know their deck, and what 'outs' they have. An out is a card or possibility in their deck that can help them come back and solve the current situation. Once they realize "Ok i have no outs left in the deck" then the outcome of the game is 100% decided. Unless the opponent stops playing the game and just passes every turn, i know when i've lost. You need to understand this, it's fact.

On the other hand, even if a person does have a possibility to win with what's coming in the deck, it is still their right to move on if they feel they haven't a chance, or don't want to make that slow crawl back. This is not being unsportsmanlike, it's called using their time efficiently and you can think they quit out of being inconsiderate all you want, but the fact is they are doing themselve's and you a favor by saying ok you've won and moving on.

And, as other's have mentioned, it's practically tradition in Magic. You scoop when you've lost and move on.

Are you really saying that even if i know i can't make a comeback (at all or in a timely manner) that i should just sit there and watch you ping me to death? I think you are the one with 'terrible character' if that's the case. I don't want to use such a harsh term, but want you to think about how it sounds when you say it.

Someone else mentioned it was petty if you scooped early.. Really? Expecting your opponenent to sit there while you slowly (because of game engine) execute your victory is the definition of petty.

As for the way the game handles it, yes it sucks that you have to play vs AI if someone concedes. I feel bad about that, but I am not going to waste what will amount to hundreds of hours of my life (assuming i play this game for a while) sitting there while my opponenet beats me out of some false sense of honor.

I really wish Stainless would let the game end when someone concedes, at least in ranked mode as you never know who you're playing anyway so it'd be pointless to try and exploit that. I really don't want to continue to play vs the computer to get the gold, but i defininately do NOT blame my opponents if they realize they won't win and quit.

[#12]

Opprinnelig skrevet av Saiyan Prince:

There is ZERO times where conceding is a good thing. There is no honor in it. In magic there can always be a chance to turn the game around

Have you ever played paper magic in a tournament even a casual one?

Even at FNMs games almost never go to completion. when you know you don't have a way to win against what your opponent has in play you concede. There is not always a chance of winning, you should know what cards are in your deck and if you don't have an out you are just wasting both players time by not scooping.

Sure you shouldn't give up if you do still have something you could top deck that could turn the game around, and forfeiting is not the solution to a bad draw, but knowing when its over is part of the game.

[Xenial Jesse]

@Xander
No. What your describing is manipulation. If you want to believe what you're saying, then you support manipulation.

Do you really not know how to honour a person as having no responsibility, and especially *deserving* no responsibility, for a consequence they trigger?

If I am left facing AI after an opponent fairly conceded, do you think I didn't buy into it? Do you think I didn't know this could happen already? Conceding, the option, is there. It's already there before you came along and started inventing expectations around it. You think it's not nice to use. It doesn't matter what you think; you can't create extra rules for others. You know the concede button is there. Handle that, without inventing judgement about how people use it. Without trying to champion this manipulative idea that makes people feel bad for playing 1) how they like and 2) how the game lets them.

It irritates me, the AI that I am left to deal with, but that's my problem.

I am not going to tell people they should babysit for Stainless, and if you try to make me or others feel bad for not doing so, you're the one that needs to deal with the way the game is; the way you already knew the game is before you started playing, before you started creating negative judgements from nothing.


@Saiyan Prince
There are good and bad ways to concede. If you don't see them you don't see them, but it's not one-sided like you claim.

There are people who like it and people who don't. Your particular impression is your own, so own it instead of force-feeding it.

[Xander9009]

@The Number 12 and Roz1281: Saying it happens a lot so it's okay is bad logic. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it should be. If it's that popular, then it's common concensus that it's acceptable. That doesn't change anything, though. Just because someone else feels okay with it doesn't mean everyone has to.

@Roz1281: Why do you play MTG? I play it because I enjoy pitting myself against others in a game of strategy. It's the same reason I played Age of Empires obsessively. I mostly play against the AI now (specifically because people are do nothing but ruin my experience, especially when I'm winning). When I make a deck, I put time into it. I put in cards that have the ability to produce combos that are interesting and fun to play. I then play against others and see how those combos work out. There is nothing more dissatisfying than to play against someone and then have them quit before you can actually win. They may be certain I'm going to win, but I won't actually know if I would have. All I know is that they felt I would. It's wasted time. That's not how they feel about it, I realize that (and as I said before, I understand they feel it's a waste of time to keep playing; the exact opposite). But that doesn't change that I feel like I've wasted whatever time it took. (And in fact, this is shown pretty strongly by the fact that I don't play against people online anymore. They quit too often and make the game feel pointless...)

[Xenial Jesse]

Whenever people cite popularity, just mention George Bush or the Wii. :)

[Saiyansixx]

The way other poeple think about things truly baffles me. Some people were just born to be quitters, and some were born to be champions. I will never quit a game, i will always tip my hat to someone who defeats me. I will look down upon people who do quit, I will encourage every losing player to never give up. If it was the Superbowl, and the cowboys were up by 40+ points in the 2nd quarter, do you think the other team would just throw in the towel? No. Because a game is meant to be finsihed. We learn from our victory, and even more from our mistakes. If you want tp contnue to be a quitter, I can't stop you. Maybe thats how you have always dealt with things your whole life and at this point you cant stop and make the paradigm shift. When things look bad, quit, Not me. Even if there is zero chance, i will play that game until i have been defeated, because i will have a chance to learn more about your playstyle and deck, and the way mine interacts with it. In real life magic, i have had people try to quit, and i was able to convince them to keep trying. And you know what? Some of them came back and beat me. It was glorious. I love games like that, were all hope seems lost, and then you pull that planar cleansing or back to 20 life angel and you have a chance again. Quitting, any game, magic, football, UFC, table tennis, is bad sportmanship, and this is Not a fact. It is simply my opinion.

[zlainfury]

All these anti conceders either never played REAL MTG or did but prolly never said anything when someone scooped. but now they have the internet to protect them so here comes the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

[Xander9009]

Opprinnelig skrevet av zlainfury:

All these anti conceders either never played REAL MTG or did but prolly never said anything when someone scooped. but now they have the internet to protect them so here comes the ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥.

And you probably haven't actually read the comments you're responding to...