Magic Duels

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Crabby Sep 9, 2015 @ 5:55pm
Isn't a defender a wall?
Thought a defender was a recent term for a wall but a Gatecreeper Vine (Defender) blocked my Juggernaut (can't be blocked by Walls). Am I wrong?
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Showing 1-14 of 14 comments
Darkclaw3050 Sep 9, 2015 @ 6:02pm 
Defender is an ability and simply means that 'this creature cannot attack'. Wall is a creature type and will be listed directly on the card where it says Creature - Wall. Basically all Walls have Defender, but not all creatures with Defender are Walls.
I think Wall is a creature type. Just so happens that all Walls have defender as well.
Crabby Sep 9, 2015 @ 6:05pm 
Cheers for that. Not many walls in this game then.
Cassilda Sep 9, 2015 @ 6:08pm 
Wall is a creature type, while Defender is a creature ability. I think the Wall type imply the Defender ability for all the old card from when defender was not a thing yet.

As it happen Gatecreeper Vine is a Plant with the Defender ability. Not a Wall.

There are no creature in the current card pool with the Wall type actually.
Crabby Sep 9, 2015 @ 6:10pm 
Originally posted by Crabby:
Cheers for that. Not many walls in this game then.
In fact I can't find any walls, kinda negates the Juggernauts ability.
Waterknight Sep 9, 2015 @ 6:26pm 
There are walls. Ok apparently walls are only in story mode... I can't see any in the card collection.
BEASTBLOOD Sep 9, 2015 @ 6:29pm 
Originally posted by Crabby:
Originally posted by Crabby:
Cheers for that. Not many walls in this game then.
In fact I can't find any walls, kinda negates the Juggernauts ability.

Rise of the Eldrazi, exspect Walls soon maybe ;)

http://i.tcgplayer.com/34747.jpg
Also, at the time when Juggernauts were developed, Walls were rather plentiful, especially in Control Decks. Since it had that ability to bypass walls way back in the day, we still see it with that ability today even though there aren't many wall to be found.
bronze_aged Sep 9, 2015 @ 8:18pm 
Yeah Juggernaut might date back to even the alpha set? I remember it in Revised.
Originally posted by bronzeager:
Yeah Juggernaut might date back to even the alpha set? I remember it in Revised.
Yes besides basic lands it's one of the few cards to survive through to today. There has been gaps in its printing over the years, but not many.
miltonwhatever Sep 10, 2015 @ 12:53am 
Yes, Juggernaut was a juggernaut (oooh, how funny am I?) back in the day because walls were included in many decks. Juggernaut was even banned (or was it restricted? don't remember) for a while. But it is kinda useless here since a few years ago they changed the concept of walls and created the defender ability.
Ferrus Animus Sep 10, 2015 @ 1:09am 
Until 2004 Defender didn't exist as such (a few creatures had an ability like it) and was an implicit rules element of the Wall creature type.
When the Legend creature type was removed WotC also removed that rules element from Walls and introduced Defender, as a result modern Wall-like defenders quite often lack the Wall type whereas older ones most of the time had it. Some but not all card interactions were changed, and Walls do get printed just far less.
Juggernaut is one of the cards that lost out in that change.
Rhonlore Sep 10, 2015 @ 4:40am 
Wall used to have rules baggage, where all walls could not attack but didn't have that on their card. That was changed a while back. Now we can have defenders that aren't walls!
n00bdragon Sep 10, 2015 @ 2:25pm 
I wish they'd errata'd Juggernaut so that it can't be blocked by creatures with Defender so that it could keep its original usage.
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Date Posted: Sep 9, 2015 @ 5:55pm
Posts: 14