Isn't a defender a wall?

[Crabby]

Thought a defender was a recent term for a wall but a Gatecreeper Vine (Defender) blocked my Juggernaut (can't be blocked by Walls). Am I wrong?

[Darkclaw3050]

Defender is an ability and simply means that 'this creature cannot attack'. Wall is a creature type and will be listed directly on the card where it says Creature - Wall. Basically all Walls have Defender, but not all creatures with Defender are Walls.

[Paid Actor - $50/throw]

I think Wall is a creature type. Just so happens that all Walls have defender as well.

[Crabby]

Cheers for that. Not many walls in this game then.

[Cassilda]

Wall is a creature type, while Defender is a creature ability. I think the Wall type imply the Defender ability for all the old card from when defender was not a thing yet.

As it happen Gatecreeper Vine is a Plant with the Defender ability. Not a Wall.

There are no creature in the current card pool with the Wall type actually.

[Crabby]

Originally posted by Crabby:

Cheers for that. Not many walls in this game then.

In fact I can't find any walls, kinda negates the Juggernauts ability.

[Waterknight]

There are walls. Ok apparently walls are only in story mode... I can't see any in the card collection.

[BEASTBLOOD]

Originally posted by Crabby:

Originally posted by Crabby:

Cheers for that. Not many walls in this game then.

In fact I can't find any walls, kinda negates the Juggernauts ability.

Rise of the Eldrazi, exspect Walls soon maybe ;)

http://i.tcgplayer.com/34747.jpg

[Professor Dex 1978]

Also, at the time when Juggernauts were developed, Walls were rather plentiful, especially in Control Decks. Since it had that ability to bypass walls way back in the day, we still see it with that ability today even though there aren't many wall to be found.

[bronze_aged]

Yeah Juggernaut might date back to even the alpha set? I remember it in Revised.

[Professor Dex 1978]

Originally posted by bronzeager:

Yeah Juggernaut might date back to even the alpha set? I remember it in Revised.

Yes besides basic lands it's one of the few cards to survive through to today. There has been gaps in its printing over the years, but not many.

[miltonwhatever]

Yes, Juggernaut was a juggernaut (oooh, how funny am I?) back in the day because walls were included in many decks. Juggernaut was even banned (or was it restricted? don't remember) for a while. But it is kinda useless here since a few years ago they changed the concept of walls and created the defender ability.

[Ferrus Animus]

Until 2004 Defender didn't exist as such (a few creatures had an ability like it) and was an implicit rules element of the Wall creature type.
When the Legend creature type was removed WotC also removed that rules element from Walls and introduced Defender, as a result modern Wall-like defenders quite often lack the Wall type whereas older ones most of the time had it. Some but not all card interactions were changed, and Walls do get printed just far less.
Juggernaut is one of the cards that lost out in that change.

[Rhonlore]

Wall used to have rules baggage, where all walls could not attack but didn't have that on their card. That was changed a while back. Now we can have defenders that aren't walls!

[n00bdragon]

I wish they'd errata'd Juggernaut so that it can't be blocked by creatures with Defender so that it could keep its original usage.