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Toredus Aug 27, 2016 @ 3:20am
Mirrorwing Dragon + Silverfur Partisan
Is it a bug that I don't get e token from Silverfur Partisan if I target Mirrorwing Dragon with e instant spell?
The copy targets all my wolfs. So why do I not get the 2/2 tokens?

Did I missunderstand the cards?

greetings
Toredus

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Showing 1-15 of 20 comments
yummyvermin Aug 27, 2016 @ 3:47am 
I wonder if this has something to do with them being copies of a spell and not an actual spell? I say this because I had a Thing in the Ice on the board and copied a spell using Geitblast from my graveyard and I only got one trigger removed from thing in the ice when I had expected to get two, one from the spell and one from the copy.
Essaria Aug 27, 2016 @ 6:14am 
Originally posted by yummyvermin:
I wonder if this has something to do with them being copies of a spell and not an actual spell? I say this because I had a Thing in the Ice on the board and copied a spell using Geitblast from my graveyard and I only got one trigger removed from thing in the ice when I had expected to get two, one from the spell and one from the copy.
Because thing in the ice requires that spells be "cast" to trigger it, putting a copy onto the stack without casting it will not actually remove an additional counter. In that case, the function of the game was aligned with the rules.

Silverfur partisan, however, does not require that spells targeting it be cast, meaning that you should get wolves. I'm not a programmer, but I'd guess that partisan is using the same code as permanents with effects that trigger on cast, even though the mtg rulings are different.
Toredus Aug 27, 2016 @ 6:41am 
Hmm thats what I thougt. Thank you Vetoscadiva.
GeneralVeers Aug 27, 2016 @ 11:16am 
This again?? Must be a popular combo. :)

This one came up once before in another thread. The legalistic questions include stuff such as: do Mirrorwing's copies count as "spells"? And when those copies land on Silverfur, does that count as actually "becoming the target"? The other thread didn't reach a satisfactory conclusion; somebody jumped in and SAID he was an accredited MTG tourney judge, but he could have been Judge Judy for all I know......

My experience with other spells that do similar shenanigans (such as Echo Mage and Cast Through Time) is that official rulings will often not be what you expect. Of course it's also possible a programmer dropped a zero somewhere. :/
Xerica Aug 27, 2016 @ 4:23pm 
Thats is strange OP because it worked for me when ever say i put a +1 +1 counter on mirrorwing dragon.

Are you making sure you are only targeting mirrorwing?
pjfeigel Aug 27, 2016 @ 5:01pm 
Originally posted by Zerican34:
Thats is strange OP because it worked for me when ever say i put a +1 +1 counter on mirrorwing dragon.

Are you making sure you are only targeting mirrorwing?
Are you sure you understood the OP's post? They're not saying there's something wrong with getting the Dragon to trigger. It's that the Silverfur Partisan isn't triggering when the Dragon's trigger puts Spell Copies (of the original Spell that targeted the Dragon) on the Stack targeting the (Were)Wolves they control.

And, regardless of what some people in this thread find "satisfactory", the Rules on this topic is a settled matter. The Partisan should be triggering because the (Were)Wolves went from a state of not being the Target of an Instant/Sorcery to being the Target of an Instant/Sorcery. The Partisan should also trigger if the target(s) of an Instant/Sorcery was changed via Misdirection/Shunt.
Last edited by pjfeigel; Aug 27, 2016 @ 5:02pm
GeneralVeers Aug 27, 2016 @ 6:49pm 
Originally posted by pjfeigel:
And, regardless of what some people in this thread find "satisfactory", the Rules on this topic is a settled matter.
Lol. Are you that same guy?? :) Meh, whatever.

It's not settled. That other thread ended in a stalemate, and my online research on the subject didn't provide anything conclusive. I'm not really surprised--even years later, the official rulings still have some holes in them. (my real world playgroup manages to break something at least once a month, and that's with PAPER CARDS)
pjfeigel Aug 27, 2016 @ 7:21pm 
Originally posted by GeneralVeers:
It's not settled. That other thread ended in a stalemate,
Hey mate, the only thing here that's stale is your comprehension of the Rules.

The answer has been given. Whether you will accept it or not is up to you.
And again, if anyone requires further confirmation, just ask in the MtGRules IRC chat[chat.magicjudges.org]
GeneralVeers Aug 27, 2016 @ 7:53pm 
The only thing here that's stale is yo' momma.

(don't glare at me like that, you started it)

One of the problems with trying to find an answer online is, a lot of people get things wrong online. My personal favorite so far is a thread (no, not on Steam) where people were arguing about a really nasty board position where one player had (among other things) two Tromokratises on the table. For the entire duration of the thread, nobody noticed that Tromokratis is a legendary and you can only have one at a time.

I just kind of snickered to myself and let them ramble on......
pjfeigel Aug 27, 2016 @ 8:28pm 
Originally posted by GeneralVeers:
One of the problems with trying to find an answer online is, a lot of people get things wrong online.
You're right. Which is why it so frustrating to deal with you, because you keep spreading false information. Furthermore, you refuse to utilize [O]fficial lines of communication, such as the IRC chat.

Sure, I think its stupid that WotC had chosen to shutter their own forums, and rely on reddit and IRC. But, them's the brakes. Get on the bus, or get run over.
GeneralVeers Aug 27, 2016 @ 8:47pm 
Originally posted by pjfeigel:
You're right. Which is why it so frustrating to deal with you, because you keep spreading false information.
News flash, you're far from the first person who's tried that tack with me. Quick tip: the only way to get me to shut up is to just stop posting.

I don't do false. What I do is keep in mind that this is the INTERNET and pretty much anybody (including you) could be completely bullshitting people. Yeah, you said you were a judge or something, but there's no proof. And I'm not keen on IRC chat (or indeed on clicking on links provided by complete strangers) because I don't know who's in those chats.

Gatherer is one of the best and most reliable places to find official rulings on cards. Bad news there: the rulings on Mirrorwing don't cover spells that bounce to Silverfur. And Silverfur has no official rulings in its section at all.

Originally posted by pjfeigel:
Get on the bus, or get run over.
Tap three. Sweep Away. Bye, bus! (what happens to the schoolchildren?? do they get exiled??)
pjfeigel Aug 27, 2016 @ 11:06pm 
Originally posted by GeneralVeers:
News flash, you're far from the first person who's tried that tack with me.
If everyone is telling you the same thing, why not start listening to them?
Quick tip: the only way to get me to shut up is to just stop posting.
That's the thing. I'm not trying to shut you up. I'm here to make sure the correct information get disseminated.

Vetoscadiva provided the correct answer. You are wrong.

I don't do false. What I do is keep in mind that this is the INTERNET and pretty much anybody (including you) could be completely bullshitting people. Yeah, you said you were a judge or something, but there's no proof.
Just curious... What, if anything, would you accept as proof of my former credentials?

Which is why I don't bring it up. Since I'm no longer active, and there wouldn't be anything you'd accept. Rather, I'm fine being just another poster on the internet, albeit one with an above average knowledge of the Rules. And, who just so happens to be right on this topic.

the rulings on Mirrorwing don't cover spells that bounce to Silverfur. And Silverfur has no official rulings in its section at all.
That's simply because they didn't think it would be necessary, since they expected people to have a command of the English language, include the definition of "becomes".

However, if we even suppose that, as you suggest, the Silverfur wouldn't trigger when it became the target of the Spell Copy, then the ability would have been written like one of Heroic Ability-word triggers;

"Whenever [a player] casts a[n Instant or Sorcery] spell that targets [a Wolf or Werewolf you control]"
GeneralVeers Aug 28, 2016 @ 12:32am 
Originally posted by pjfeigel:
If everyone is telling you the same thing, why not start listening to them?
Because everyone is NOT telling me the same thing. "Everyone" is not just you, and not just this thread.

Originally posted by pjfeigel:
Vetoscadiva provided the correct answer. You are wrong.
You've pretty much completely forgotten that other thread, haven't you? Quick refresher. I pointed out, early on in that thread, the same thing Veto pointed out in this one: that the copies that bounce off Mirrorwing are not "cast", and also that Silverfur doesn't need something to be "cast" on it to trigger it.

Guess what (c'mon, you saw this one coming!): you're spouting false information here. Normally I brush those off, but in this case you're calling me a liar, in which case go ♥♥♥♥ a ♥♥♥♥ and ♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♥♥♥♥. (does copy-pasting actual hearts count as swearing?? bah, ♥♥♥♥ it)

Other thing: there are also two or three other possible factors Veto said absolutely nothing about. (Plus one to Veto, by the way, for using the word "guess" when not sure of something)

Originally posted by pjfeigel:
Just curious... What, if anything, would you accept as proof of my former credentials?
I don't need your credentials. I'm looking for an offical rule out of a rulebook somewhere.

(If a diploma-carrying mathematics PhD said 2 + 2 = 5, nobody would give a flying bleep what his credentials were--they would still point at him and laugh and go "you're stupid")

Originally posted by pjfeigel:
That's simply because they didn't think it would be necessary
Left out the insultey part (weak snap bro, put some effort in it). Everybody's pretty clear on the definition of "another". Guess what, they still put in a ruling for Soul Warden making clear that it doesn't trigger on ITSELF entering play. Even though "when ANOTHER creature enters the battlefield" pretty much spells it out.

So, no. Not buying this "they didn't think it would be necessary" crap. When there's any doubt at all, they make rulings and put them on Gatherer. There's some rulings needed for these cards, because people in a lot of other places besides this thread are unsure of how Mirrorwing and Silverfur are supposed to work.
Ralthor Aug 28, 2016 @ 2:20am 
My official judgement is: GeneralVeers penis is bigger.
Mike Aug 28, 2016 @ 2:34am 
his ladygarden?
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Date Posted: Aug 27, 2016 @ 3:20am
Posts: 20