Cards removed from the game: How, When and Why

[An Outsider]

Hi, I was wondering about cards that have been already removed from the game, such as "Sylvan Ranger" and"Mwonvuli Acid Moss". Now I assume they have been removed because they belong to the inicial pack we receive and it probably changes to keep up with the cards in the Standard. It's kinda sad since I believe it would be better not do this to avoid ruining someone already built deck, but I understand this principle anyway despite knowing how annoying it will be when this happens to cards in my deck such as "Reprisal" and "Kor Bladewhirl". What really worries me is what will happen with the expansions at long term, will the cards also be removed when they get out of Standard ("Origins", for instance, will be off Standard in nearly 6 months)? The main reason for my doubt is the threat of expending money to complete more quickly a given expansion just to see it in the future all be removed.
If any Developer or an aware player knows how exactly the changes to the cards work, I believe it would help not only me but any player who fears a risky investment.

[LoVe)Ly]

I believe the cards will always be replaced with other cards. So, while they'll take some away, they will give you others for free.

At least some of the cards taken away were not part of the initial set you're given for free, so that can and will happen.

I heavily used Archangel of Tithes and Sylvan Ranger, so two of my decks needed significant rework. It can absolutely ruin your deck. If that's something you're worried about, then don't pay, just grind for free coins.

Looking farther into the future, they'll have to cut out set-specific rules eventually, so all the cards with those rules will need to be switched.

[An Outsider]

Originally posted by LoVe)Ly:

I heavily used Archangel of Tithes and Sylvan Ranger, so two of my decks needed significant rework. It can absolutely ruin your deck. If that's something you're worried about, then don't pay, just grind for free coins.

And Archangel of Tithes was part of the "Origins" block, not a starter card, I supose... Well too bad for you too man, hope you've managed to get a good replacement for a card like this.
I still intend to spend a little money on the game because when the game is good I don't mind paying a little for it to keep the comunity working, but for a certain security I'll hold a large amount of coins to buy at once the most recent block in the future so it's less propense to changes.

[mirrors-edge]

There were quite a few replacements made to the starter box cards when the SOI/OGW patch was released in April.

Mwonvili Acid-Moss in particular was removed due to it resulting in the development of "unhealthy play patterns", essentially another way of saying it was causing balancing issues in the meta, that couldn't be easily solved solely through the addition of more cards to the pool.

Here's a link to the video announcement explaining the starter box changes they made :-

- Magic Duels Starter Box Changes (11th March 2016)[magic.wizards.com]

When the EMN patch was released, they replaced Archangel of Tithes with Angelic Destiny, because Archangel of Tithes was creating too many systemic bugs for them to fix. They also replaced Sylvan Ranger with Ainok Guide. The reason they gave for this replacement, was they wanted to try and make 4 and 5 color decks more difficult to play, quite possibly to try and clip the wings of the Superfriends archetype, I don't personally believe this will make a significant difference to be honest.

Here's a link to both the video announcement explaining the Archangel change as well as the EMN pre-release video :-

- SOI Developer Retrospective Video

- Magic Duels Developer Insights: Eldritch Moon

Wizards haven't given any indication that they intend to rotate sets out, to be honest, I can't see how that would be "legal" given that some people have paid for the content in question, so it's highly unlikely.

They will and have however replaced cards as detailed above, in order to try and keep the meta healthy and balanced as new sets are added. In this instance, they substitute each card they remove, with another.

Starting from the EMN release, they have also indicated that they intend to start removing cards that are taking up too much development time, as was the case with Archangel of Tithes. They will again replace each card they remove for this purpose with another.

The important thing I believe, is in the case of replacing main set cards from the game, they do so like for like and ensure that the cards they switch in, are of equal perceived value to the cards they replace.

It doesn't matter with the starter box cards so much, as that content is free, but main set cards for any players who have bought coin with real money, essentially represent a monetary investment to those players and having paid for a product, only to have it unconditionally revoked a month later and substituted with another product of inferior perceived quality and value, is likely to start causing discontent among those players and indeed over time, broadly among the entire player base.

In my opinion, they failed to achieve that with the Archangel replacement. Archangel of Tithes is perceived to be a high quality mythic angel, they could have put any one of a number of other mythic angels in place of it and left everybody satisfied, but they instead chose to give us a generic mythic enchantment and I feel they are going to have to be far more careful than that in executing their strategy to substitute cards, that they don't have the human resources to maintain.

They have extended this strategy also to omitting cards from future sets, which they predict will be difficult to maintain, the first major casualty of this was of course Emrakul, the Promised End in EMN.

These are decisions, that do reduce the quality of the game's card inventory and they will need to be careful how they execute them, so as to not put players off.

[Andrei]

Emrakul was probably harder to code than the rest of the set put together. I can understand the decision, given it was a 1X. It's good they were able to implement all the mechanics (meld, emerge).

[twitch.tv/thedoovle]

i miss my 0/2 wall that fetched land.

[Khronikos]

I am very glad they are preventing easy mode ramp strats, because they make the meta dull and boring as hell.

[An Outsider]

Originally posted by mirrors-edge:

It doesn't matter with the starter box cards so much, as that content is free, but main set cards for any players who have bought coin with real money, essentially represent a monetary investment to those players and having paid for a product, only to have it unconditionally revoked a month later and substituted with another product of inferior perceived quality and value, is likely to start causing discontent among those players and indeed over time, broadly among the entire player base.

That's exactly the point that worries me, I understand and find it interesting the idea of keeping up a meta, but I believe there's a great number of people who take a look at a set before starting to spend their money on it, and such instability might lead to uncertainty over some present and potential players. The main problem is not changing the starter box, but the cards obtained via boosters.

[illuknisaa]

I don't want to sound like a shill but nobody has played real world money for archangel of tithes. People only pay money for boosters which are just random pile of 6 cards. People only lost 1 random card and got another random card.

[Silver]

Can someone please show me what changes they made?



April 2016:

Removed:

Mwonvuli Acid Moss for Explosive Vegetation
Perilous Myr for Bronze Sable
Jagged-Scar Archers for Lifespring Druid
Foundry Street Denizen for Goblin Baloon Brigade

July 2016:

Sylvan Ranger for Ainok Guide
Archangel of Tithes for Angelic Destiny

[mirrors-edge]

Originally posted by illuknisaa:

I don't want to sound like a shill but nobody has played real world money for archangel of tithes. People only pay money for boosters which are just random pile of 6 cards. People only lost 1 random card and got another random card.

Some might call that a sleazy get out clause and I don't think it will wash with the players in question, in fact it's likely to aggravate them more.

Whether the opinion you've presented there is legitimate or not(I don't believe it is in the slightest), it is likely to be perceived by paying players as a greasy, underhanded way of smudging over the issue and seeing as how the only thing that can be purchased in game at the moment, is cards, it is still likely to cause discontent among players and more discontent is something this game doesn't need. Whether the cards be sold 1 at a time, or 6 at a time is in real, practical terms, besides the point.

I might point out also, that ALL booster packs are random, even paper booster packs are random, to avoid having to write the same thing twice, see the concluding paragraph in this reply(boldface).

And it hasn't been random for random either, it's been a card I obtained from a booster pack, that I knew I had a chance of obtaining(actually, I knew with 100% certainty that I would get it, because I paid for the entire set), replaced with a card that has been deliberately selected by the Duels design team and I had no say, or choice as to which card I'd like to receive instead.

Originally posted by Eldram:

That's exactly the point that worries me, I understand and find it interesting the idea of keeping up a meta, but I believe there's a great number of people who take a look at a set before starting to spend their money on it, and such instability might lead to uncertainty over some present and potential players. The main problem is not changing the starter box, but the cards obtained via boosters.

Yes, it almost certainly will, I don't mind so much if the replacements are like for like and with cards of equal perceived value and quality, but in order to stem potential discontent and loss of confidence, they will need to be careful to ensure that they're not removing value from content that has been paid for, the method of delivery doesn't really matter.

If I purchased a booster pack from a shop, opened a high value card from it and then the shop owner told me that he had to substitute it for some reason, then the fact that I would very likely exercise my consumer rights and refuse to acquiesce notwithstanding, I would expect the card he chose to replace it with, to be of a minimum equal value. The fact that the booster packs in this game are virtual, doesn't change how unacceptable this scenario is.

Comedy Sketch (Note: Dark humor, not for the faint hearted) :-

/ Buys a Worldwake booster pack.
/ Opens it...

Me: Oh jackpot! Jace, the Mind Sculpter.
Shop: Oh sorry, I've got to take that one back, because it's too difficult to code. I'll replace it with another card though!
Me: Er. I'd rather not, but if I don't have a choice, then fine.
Shop: Here, have an Island! That should keep you happy.
Me: Actually, no not really, can I choose another?
Shop: Nah, sorry mate, you don't get a choice, so that's your lot.