Any working strategy against Tokens?

[HistoryPlayer]

I am doing pretty bad against tokens decks. Even with control decks full of massive removal (Languish, Radiant Flames) I can't win. I have trouble with these cards: Oketra's Monument, Anointed Procession and any other artifact/enchantments that adds tokens when a creature enters to the battefield, even if I counter them, still generates tokens. Quite annoying!

Is there any working strategy or maybe anti-token decks?

[pjfeigel]

Displacement Wave for 0.

9 times out of 10, a Token has a CMC of 0...

The exception is for Token-copies (ie. Saheeli's Artistry) of other objects, then will have the same CMC as the object they are a copy of... Though, the exceptions to the exception are Embalm tokens and copies of Double-faced cards.

• Embalm token-copies specifically have a CMC of 0, because the Embalm ability says they don't have a Mana Cost.
  
  • 702.127a Embalm is an activated ability that functions while the card with embalm is in a graveyard. “Embalm [cost]” means “[Cost], Exile this card from your graveyard: Create a token that’s a copy of this card, except it’s white, it has no mana cost, and it’s a Zombie in addition to its other types. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery.”
• Copies of the transformed side of a double-faced card has a CMC of 0.
  
  • 711.4b While a double-faced permanent’s back face is up, it has only the characteristics of its back face. However, its converted mana cost is calculated using the mana cost of its front face. This is a change from previous rules. If a permanent is copying the back face of a double-faced card (even if the card representing that copy is itself a double-faced card), the converted mana cost of that permanent is 0.

[Captain_Narol]

Indeed, Displacement Wave works well.

Also, in white, Tragic Arrogance can be very efficient if you don't have many creatures yourself and you can get rid of the token generators at the occasion, suppressing the trouble at its source.

[Finrod]

Unfortunately there aren't really any token "hate" cards other than boardwipes (including displacement wave). "Return to hand" cards and Fatal push are of course really good against tokens, but often aren't enough when many tokens are being generated every turn.

Against Oketra's monument and Anointed Procession decks, as you probably have discovered, a board wipe is not enough to stop them if you are a control deck. They will rebuild their board faster than you can implement your win condition.

As a control player, there are two avenues I have used against these decks.

1st: Enchantment/artifact removal (Anguished unmaking, etc). If you can get rid of Oketra's Monument/Anointed procession, their deck is instantly crippled. Board wipes will be much more effective against them, for example. Even Dynavolt tower may be able to manage them in a pinch.

2nd: I sometimes play Grixis control with a lot of targeted removal, which is crippled by the token strategies that generate many creatures from a single card. In this setting, I have found counterspells are very effective, simply counter their important cards before they hit the table - then it won't matter what deck they have. I think counterspells are the most universally applicable control strategy in Duels since they can hit 99.9% of the cards in Duels and

- Boardwipes and creature removal don't work against other control decks or planeswalker decks

- Universal removal (Anguished unmaking) is expensive and few options exist

- Unlike paper Modern/Legacy, we don't really have any good targeted discard cards other than Thoughtknot Seer (which is very good btw).

Of course counterspells alone won't be enough, you do need removal for the threats that slip through.

A final note: Playing counterspell decks correctly does take a lot of practice, you really need to know the common deck types you will play against, and what their most important cards are, in order to know (a) which cards to counter; (b) which to let through so as to save your counter for a worse threat; and (c) when it is ok to tap out to play your own threats on your turn.

[Finrod]

Alternately, you could try a non-control strategy.

Creatures with Trample or Flying are fantastic against tokens. Green has a lot of trample, blue and white have flyers.


Token decks are pretty slow, so

- Burn decks often burn them out before they assemble their board

- Mono red Red Deck Wins can kill them before they have enough blockers. Importantly, you will need trample, menace, or "cannot block" effects (e.g. Cartouche of Zeal) otherwise they will simply block your creatures with tokens.

[HistoryPlayer]

I am thinking about an Azorius Control. I have Esper and Grixis, with Grixis, unfortunately being a very solid deck, I lost against a tokens deck, burn is not enough, even Radiant Flames + Languish is not enough, what can you do against a lucky guy that gets the neccesary creatures, enchantments and artifacts? He had Oketra + Oketra's Monument + Anointed Procession and Grixis doesn't have anything to exile or stop Oketra. I like counters, and also Displacement Wave may be a good answer. I will be working hard in Azorius.

[Wiffin]

Originally posted by ancestralplayer:

what can you do against a lucky guy that gets the neccesary creatures, enchantments and artifacts?

Sometimes nothing beats a lucky guy unfortunately. If you lost once against that one it doesnt mean it has to repeat itself though? And if you make a deck specifically to destroy token decks you will be vulnerable against other stuff.

But yes, hope azorius will work out for you.

[neRok]

Lots of enchantment and artifact removal!

You also want something to exile their creatures with embalm, because counter spells won't stop them from using that ability from their graveyard. That enchantment creature that exiles most of their graveyard might be a good option after a big board wipe, or even the flip side of Never.

Speaking of exiling creatures, Declaration in Stone is very good. One 2 cost card can wipe out all their tokens, or exile a specific threat. It's pretty cool to exile 2 or more Anointer Priest at the same time. You also need exile to get rid of the legendary gods.

Cataclysmic Gearhulk is a worse version of Tragic Arrogance, but better than nothing. If you have some 'exile creature and return it' cards, you can use the gearhulk every couple of turns to keep them low on creatures, and enchantments (it's not uncommon to see a a Hidden Stockpile, Anointed Procession and Valor in Akros out, and after gearhulk they can only keep one).

Similar to Displacement Wave, Crush of Tentacles can reset the board, and give you a big 8/8.

Green can make a lot of little tokens too, to block theirs. Nissa, Voice of Zendikar turn 3, and From Beyond turn 4 = lots of little blockers. Flying and trample is a good suggestion (green has trample), just watch out for Aven Wind Guide. Heaven / Earth can help here, giving multiple wipes (depending on the threats). And don't discredit Fog. They go all in to kill you one turn, you Fog, and attack them for lethal the following.

And back onto red burns - there are tons of options; Radiant Flames, Kozilek's Return (put some fat eldrazi in to use more than once), Savage Alliance, Blazing Volley, Incendiary Sabotage, Chandra's Ignition, Chandra Flamecaller - tons of options there! Even creatures like Goblin Arsonist and the similar Devil's Playground can go 2-for-1 against 1/1 token creatures. The beauty of Kozilek's Return is that it is an instant, so you can sneak it out at the best moment (ie after 4 tokens enter, but no creatures have been powered up by Valor in Akros yet), and you can re-cast it with Torrential Gearhulk.

And lastly there is Archfiend of Ifnir, which you can use to wipe out their tokens, whilst making you own tokens if you use Nest of Scarabs as well.

[amimai002]

well vs mass tokens decleration in stone wrecks nicely

[S_Jake]

Originally posted by ancestralplayer:

I am doing pretty bad against tokens decks. Even with control decks full of massive removal (Languish, Radiant Flames) I can't win. I have trouble with these cards: Oketra's Monument, Anointed Procession and any other artifact/enchantments that adds tokens when a creature enters to the battefield, even if I counter them, still generates tokens. Quite annoying!

Is there any working strategy or maybe anti-token decks?

The real problem is Oketra's monument, as that continually spawns (uncounterable) tokes when creatures are cast, thus making the token deck resilient to both removal and sweepers. A game plan should therefore include a plan to deal with the monument.

I'm currently playing Jeskai, so my general plan is to either counter monument, remove it from play with a Cast Out, or bounce it with Commit // Memory and counter it on the way back down. There are other good, flexible answers depending on your colours (e.g. Anguished Unmaking, if you are WB or Esper). One the monument is dealt with, it should be a case of sweeping up whatever's left and going from there.

I'm obviously simplifying things, but as a general rule of thumb, I try to prioritise dealing with monument and planeswalkers and try to ignore Anointed Procession and any anthem effects.

[RemedyX]

Originally posted by ancestralplayer:

I am doing pretty bad against tokens decks. Even with control decks full of massive removal (Languish, Radiant Flames) I can't win. I have trouble with these cards: Oketra's Monument, Anointed Procession and any other artifact/enchantments that adds tokens when a creature enters to the battefield, even if I counter them, still generates tokens. Quite annoying!

Is there any working strategy or maybe anti-token decks?

Board wipes are the moset effective but large lifelink creatures will allow you to live longer vig is also good if you can attack they block you kill a token then they swing and you get to block and kill two tokens with one creature so what ever can deal with more than one creature is good

[neRok]

Originally posted by robdex596:

good if you can attack they block you kill a token then they swing and you get to block and kill two tokens with one creature so what ever can deal with more than one creature is good

If that's your strategy, Endbringer will fit right in. Attacking, blocking, and killing another attacker - it does it all!

[Quicksilver]

I ran this for a while for kaladesh/revolt meta when there was a bit of a craze for fabrication theme decks and it had a decent win rate. Should do ok vs monument:

3x Indulgent Aristocrat
3x Lone Rider
3x Blessed Alliance
2x Declaration in Stone
2x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
3x Drana's Emissary
3x Blood Cursed Knight
2x Always Watching
3x Retreat to Hagra
2x Skywhaler's Shot
3x Murder
2x Anguished Unmaking
2x Collective Effort
4x Solemn Offering
3x Cliffhaven Vampire

7x Plains
7x Swamp
2x Shambling Vent
2x Isolated Chapel
2x Evolving Wilds

It will get boned hard by a proper control deck as it has no draw engine to recover from a sweeper with. (Removal heavy decks will similarly break it if you dont win quickly enough) I didn't refine the list down all that much as it was only a temporary deck while the meta was giving my other decks a rough time.

[Syckava]

Volée brûlante

[NwaZet]

Token