Black/Green elf advice

[TheBlueFox]

Hey guys, not sure if this is the proper board for this, but hey I'll give it a shot.

I'm attempting to build a green/black elf deck, and I understand that without a list of what cards I have it's gonna be tough to give me proper advice, so I'll keep things mostly general.

First, should I use Lilliana the heretical Healer?
She's fairly inexpensive and has lifelink but when she turns plainswalker I have a hard time with her, as she discards from MY hand as well. I do want to use her to pull elves back onto the field though...

Secondly, are there any elves that are traps that I should NOT use?

And lastly, what cards that ARENT elves that are still useful to have. I find that there aren't any meaty elf cards that stick around, the toughest I've seen is one that becomes a 6/6 trample when used with revolt, which is pretty much what I bank on.

[Ampryn]

Elves tribal was a thing before they took away the Archers. Now it's still viable to a point.

Liliana is fine. For as long as you run some sacrifice synergies you should be good. Especially the 3/1 that makes the enemy discard one + Bone Splinters is good to activate her.

Wouldn't recommend trying to fit in Sunwalker Elf since you need to add W to your deck to make it a good card but that would most likely drive you into BFZ ally elves which I haven't seen played at all.

Generally I find elves lacking punch in the current state of the game. Creature based decks I met were either really agressive or have synergies that are way beyond what elves can pull off (again, archers missing).

As you're asking here I assume youre new to Duels. You might want to check out the Youtube channels of LegenVD or Daniel Wagner, they both are great for beginners. Of course there are more, I just happened to learn the most from these two.

[TheBlueFox]

Hmm, when you say removed archers, do you mean they were roated out? Or were they actually REMOVED from the game?

[Mjollnir49172]

My general advice would be to not bank to much on the elves, because with only dwynen, the huntmaster and the shaman of the pack, there is not much profit to focus on the elf synergy, and you likely concede after the first sweeper.

But if you want to try :
- Liliana seems good, you can recur a shaman for a fatal strike, and as an elf deck you are supposed to empty your hand quite quick.
- Trap elf? It's hard to tell like this. I guess anything with 4 or more mana which isn't one the card I mention earlier or cultivator of blade, but I may miss something.
- And for other cards. Also hard to say when we don't know what cards you have. And you shouldn't put much of them since you want a elf deck. Maybe the green gearhulk?
- And your 6/6 elf seems really bad. 5 mana for a card which does nothing and is maybe a 6/6 will probably not help you win if the card you have played before were not sufficiant.

[Olfff]

Do you have cards from recent sets or just origins ?

The point of Elf tribal from origins, and most elf decks, is not to play meaty troops, it wants to go wide, make a lot of tokens and kill by sheer numbers+buff or with the gold GB elf that deal damage equal to the number of elves you control.

The black origin elf that kill a creature with unequal P/T upon entry on the field is great in elf decks too.

A great enchantment from origins is evolutionary leap. allows you to sacc tokens to fetch actual cards, and can act as sort of life insurance vs a board wipe.

If you have the elf cards from recent sets maybe you can go the energy route while remaining a tribal deck. No idea if it'd be good though.

I'm sorry i can remember the names of most of the cards.

Sylvan advocate should be auto include I think, then token making cards with card draw like reap the altar ( sacc a troop draw 2 for 1B instant )

[TheBlueFox]

Originally posted by Mjollnir49172:

- And your 6/6 elf seems really bad. 5 mana for a card which does nothing and is maybe a 6/6 will probably not help you win if the card you have played before were not sufficiant.

Granted it's a 4/4 with tranmple that becomes a 6/6 when used with revolt, but I get the idea. I usually toss it out after sacrificing a 1/1 token with bone splinters. but good to keep in mind.

The reason I'm going elves is that I have maybe... 20% of every card pack, I usually just play the adventures, get a few packs, and kinda be done with things, so I don't have a WIDE assortment to choose from and I've found that I've collected a decent number of elves, and B/G is my favorite color combination.

Is there a different theme that might be better for B/G?

[Mara]

Run Dwynen's Elite, creature Nissa, RECLAMATION SAGE, Shaman of the Pack, Cultivator of Blades.
Run Creature/Utility Lands, they are immune to most sweep and removal giving you what you desperately need: Hissing Quagmire, Rogue's Passage, WESTVALE ABBEY

Vanilla Elf Decks are currently not really viable due to vast amount of sweep and cheap removal. And there has not been a lot of B Elves added, most new Elves cards are G. You need to help yourself with some sort of tricks:
1) Use several green Instant that help you rescue key creatures (Blossoming Defense)
2) Use (the new) Artifacts to gain an edge: choose among likes of Key to the City, Sigil of Valor, GHIRAPUR ORRERY, ...
3) Use new Kaladesh and Aether Revolt Elves and +1/+1 Counter Spells: Durable Handicraft, Lifecrafter's Gift
4) Go complete bogus and mix some U in your deck, Essence Flux and Displace your Reclamation Sage for battlefield support, Nissa and Visionary for extra cards or Shaman of the Pack for extreme damage to the face. I run a fun deck similar to this and opponent never sees it coming. Is rather luck based tho and runs out of steam quickly.

Do not run a single Elf deck. Experiment. Run several. Use different appoaches, after every defeat do not ask yourself why u lost, but rather with which of ur other Elf Decks you could have had a greater chance from the very start vs that specific opponent deck. This way you will get a feeling for side decking and improve your deck building over time.

Finally, whatever you do try to actually keep the cool non creature / non Elf cards limited. This type of deck only ever works if you find a strategy that can fill the board anew even when a sweeper hits hard. Do not run Auras. A vast amount of creature and card draw in deck will help (see 2)

[Mjollnir49172]

Originally posted by TheBlueFox:

Is there a different theme that might be better for B/G?

The big issue is that since you have dispersed yourself in the pack, you a a little of everything and it's hard to put a consistant decklist this way.
The "better" ways to play B/G, or golgari I can think about :
- The Aether Revolt Winding constrictor is an amazing card and worth building around with a counter/energy theme (add Kaladesh cards fo things like Longtusk Cub or Bristling Hydra)
- Eldritch Moon added Grapple with the past and Ishkanah, can give you a never ending board.
- There's the old aristocrat deck, which combine the Nantuko husk and all the green black token generation to finish the game with one or two alpha strike. You'll need ways to give your creature unblockable and probably some recursion effect for better results.

Then, there's a lot of things to try around : ramp, more all-in token decks, maybe emerge...

[yummyvermin]

It depends what cards you have, but if you have a full set I really wouldn't play Liliana, Heretical Healer. In 98% of the matchups, you're going to have the faster deck that has a lot of cheap cards, so the discarding is going to hurt you more. If you opponent has 5 cards and can only play one a turn, they don't really care if they have to discard one, because if they can survive 5 turns, they will probably win the game either way. You, on the other hand, benefit from casting multiple spells a turn and are likely to empty your hand fast, which is your advantage.

Fatal Push could definitely be good as a non-elf play to maintain control of the board. Or a Blossoming Defense or two.

[TheBlueFox]

Thanks for the assistance everyone.

Curious what PACKS you would recommend for utilizing in this case, to look for some cards that would be beneficial. I think I still have to pick out some origins to get some, but beyond that, would you say Kaladesh?

[Mjollnir49172]

The best would be to focus on Kaladesh, pretty good set in general.
Shadow over Innistrad is also a solid option, especially if you prefer tribes decks (vampire, human, spirits...).
But in your case you could go for aether revolt, if you really want to focus on G/B decks, just for the snake.

You could also look at the cards to see what archetype appeal you the most, even if it's better to not touch at the Zendikar/Gatewatch block if you have other options.

[Karl_Tutter]

If you were still dead-set on trying a B/G elf deck;

Never underestimate the combo of Reclamation Sage/Evolutionary Leap (Origins)/Pulse of Murasa (Oath of the Gatewatch). Especially if your opponent is running lots of enchantments/artifacts.

While running Evolutionary Leap, keep a few green lands open and sack any creatures targeted by removal. It really helps keep the tempo on your side, and really screws over Declaration in Stone. Both Elvish Visionary and the 1/1 warrior token spawned from Dwynen's Elite are great fodder to sack to it as well.

I would also recommend Sylvan Advocate (Oath) and Nissa, Vastwood Seer (Origins).

[Al_kemial]

Try this, it worked for me up to rank 15.

2 thornbow archer
2 stoneforged metalwork
1 graf harvest ? 0
3 bones splinters
2 sylvan advocate
3 dwynen elite
4 elvish visionary
2 evolutionary leap
2 lys alana scarblade
1 nissa vastland seer
3 reclamation sage
3 shaman of the pack
2 ulenwald mysteries ? 3
4 lys alana huntmaster
2 gilt leaf winnower
1 Gitrog monster
1 decimator of provnces
Land
5 swamp
7 forest
2 hissing quagmire
2 westvale abbey
2 woodland cimetary
2 warped landscape or evolving wilds
2 foul orchard