Summoning sickness and vehicles.

[Greywolf]

You cannot tap a creature with summoning sickness to crew a vehicle, it goes against the rule of summoning sickness. Because the vehicle says "tap" and I have not seen an extra text in parenthesis that says "you can use creatures with summoning sickness".

[pjfeigel]

引用自 ChikyzRos：

And what the tap symbol means?

• 107.5. The tap symbol is {T}. The tap symbol in an activation cost means “Tap this permanent.” A permanent that’s already tapped can’t be tapped again to pay the cost. A creature’s activated ability with the tap symbol in its activation cost can’t be activated unless the creature has been under its controller’s control continuously since his or her most recent turn began. See rule 302.6.

[ChikyzRos]

引用自 pjfeigel：

• 107.5. The tap symbol is {T}. The tap symbol in an activation cost means “Tap this permanent.”

Exactly, thank you! So, this...

引用自 pjfeigel：

A Vehicle that's already been crewed an tap itself to activate its own Crew ability.
An Artifact Token copy of Whirler Rogue an tap itself to activate its own ability.

... can happen because this cards are not tapping themselves, but using an ability that doesn't need to tap de creature to activate, and the ability tap those creatures with summoning sickness :)

[pjfeigel]

引用自 ChikyzRos：

... can happen because this cards are not tapping themselves,

Words fail the sheer amount of stupid you have on display here.

They CAN tap themselves, precisely because their activation cost does NOT include the Tap Symbol.

[ChikyzRos]

No, bro, as I said, the abilities are tapping them, and the only one here that's displaying low IQ (because stupid is a medical term that refers to it) it's you because you can't find the words to keep polite and diplomatic :)

112.7a Once activated or triggered, an ability exists on the stack independently of its source. Destruction or removal of the source after that time won’t affect the ability.

Look, imagine you have an Anointer of Champions and activate her ability targeting any other creature (which from now we'll call <Fortachón :d>), it gets in the stack, then the opponent uses a Reave soul on your Anointer of Champions. What happens? Your Anointer of Champions will die but her ability still resolve on Fortachón :d because it's like the ability is an whole different entity, so, this createures are not tapping themselves (like the tap symbol does), but activating an ability that will tap the permanent that triggered the ability :)

Edit: typos xd
Edit2: added rulebook rule :)

[GeneralVeers]

He might be trolling, PJ.

But if he is, he's terrible at it.

[pjfeigel]

引用自 GeneralVeers：

He might be trolling, PJ.

But if he is, he's terrible at it.

You may be right. I must be spoiled by your high caliber of trolling, that anything less seems like the asinine ramblings of a mouth-breathing noob.

I mean, look at their recent post. Conflating the effect of an activated ability with the activation cost. It's like watching Trump explain how the government works. I mean, there are some words that are intelligible, but only displays their ignorance on the subject.

[GeneralVeers]

引用自 pjfeigel：

You may be right. I must be spoiled by your high caliber of trolling, that anything less seems like the asinine ramblings of a mouth-breathing noob.

Lol. :)

引用自 pjfeigel：

It's like watching Trump explain how the government works. I mean, there are some words that are intelligible, but only displays their ignorance on the subject.

After watching career politicians ♥♥♥♥ everything up for a few decades, I'm quite happy to let an outsider take the reins. :p

[Space Dog]

引用自 GeneralVeers：

Colossal Whale. Equipped with Sword of Kaldra.

"Unlogical" shouldn't even be an issue. :)

They could have stopped at one questionable design decision but proceeded to make another.

Appropriate creatures could easily be flagged as "pilot" or "equippable" to prevent all the nonsensical creature + equipment / vehicle combos.

[GeneralVeers]

Nobody ever cared about any of those other nonsensical creature/equipment combos.

Nobody so much as blinked twice at Mindwrack Demon plus Angelic Destiny. Or Narnam Cobra plus Leaden Fists. Or Steel Wall plus Jump. Or Steel Wall plus Sword of Kaldra. Or Steel Wall plus pretty much anything that is worn or requires hands. (great, now the mental image of a steel barricade wearing armor, wielding a sword and doing long jumps is gonna keep me up all night)

Silly combos like those are just part of the game. That's not what's really going on here. When somebody starts a thread complaining about vehicles, it's because their favorite deck (probably SuperFriends) is getting ♥♥♥♥♥ by vehicles and they want vehicles nerfed so they don't have to change their deck. Tough noogies.

[Space Dog]

Enchantments dont make me blink either. But equipment and vehicles do raise some eyebrows with their nonsensical creature combinations.

[Slon]

YOU CAN TAP (UNTAP, REMOVE, +1/+1 -1/1 etc .. ) BY RULES and COMMON SENSE creatures under Summoning sickness by other card / spell / etc ... pleaase, stop this ♥♥♥♥ ...

[Emperor Tromedlov Drolmai]

引用自 Greywolf：

You cannot tap a creature with summoning sickness to crew a vehicle, it goes against the rule of summoning sickness. Because the vehicle says "tap" and I have not seen an extra text in parenthesis that says "you can use creatures with summoning sickness".

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Wong! Here is a ruling from the Gatherer, which is the official site for rulings maintained by WotC, stating otherwise: "9/29/2017 Any untapped creature you control can be tapped to pay a crew cost, even one that just came under your control."

[battlecattle]

I like that vehicles have become a returning card type in the sets since 2017. Of course after Kaladesh the vehicles took on more of a support role, rather than having cards supporting their usage (like K block's mardu vehicle decks).

[seriaon]

ha, i didn't know this forum still existed.

[Junipercat]

引用自 Midnight Linkle：

引用自 Greywolf：

You cannot tap a creature with summoning sickness to crew a vehicle, it goes against the rule of summoning sickness. Because the vehicle says "tap" and I have not seen an extra text in parenthesis that says "you can use creatures with summoning sickness".

Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Wong! Here is a ruling from the Gatherer, which is the official site for rulings maintained by WotC, stating otherwise: "9/29/2017 Any untapped creature you control can be tapped to pay a crew cost, even one that just came under your control."

Hopefully he learned that when this thread finished over 2 YEARS AGO